Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:
I dont think the argument is the sky is falling if he signs with them, I think the argument is that if it makes no difference to this team why let another team have a head start in getting him prepped. Remove the name from the player, If player A is better than Players B and C, and its a division rival why not make them wait.

I never said we should cut him now.

Im not saying it's your fault but it's weird how often I and others have to defend positions we don't even hold, in this thread.

Didnt think I was putting an argument in your mouth just objectively stating the two sides people seem to be debating. I didnt use "you", reference your opinion or anything like that, stated some of the positions going on in this thread. Maybe others are doing that so you are on the defense but you made it pretty obvious your viewpoint is to hold him till the last minute... now i have referenced your position and you can tell me if im wrong or not.

I was orginally responding to Furlow so I think that's where the confusion lies.

My only point was to say that, of course Jimmy is an upgrade in Seattle BUT do we know if Seattle getting an upgrade at QB is better or worse for us?

Because yes we do play Seattle twice but Seattle has 4 other divisional games. If Seattle is just a little better overall couldn't that potentially help us make the playoffs?

I'm not making the claim it would be better... but to assume Seattle acquiring Jimmy would only be a negative situation for us is ignoring the potential positive aspects of him going there.

And I say all of this while understanding how much I want to destroy that team and their horrible fan base. But ultimately I want to win a Super Bowl and I'm not sure Jimmy going to Seattle helps or hurts us in getting there.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by boast:
because that comment wasnt well thought out or logical. it's an apples and oranges comparison. there's a huge difference between a division rival signing a back up TE or 3rd CB and signing a starting QB who's been in the system for five years. the QB brings far more knowledge of the scheme and philosophy behind it to the rival than a positional player.

and you dont see a starting caliber QB being made available to a division rival often at all.

The comment was mine. It was logical. And you had / have no counterpoint.

I agree a starting QB will bring more insight than a positional player. But that's not the argument. The argument is whether said information will provide a significant advantage (i.e. victories). History shows us such information will not provide a significant advantage. You have not been able to provide a clear connection between the type of information a starting QB may be able to provide, and victories. There are far more examples undermining your position, than supporting it. And there are far more variables at play than you can isolate (which undermines both your argument, and mine).

History shows us such information will not provide a significant advantage

this claim doesn't make sense. there's no real similar history to look back on. the former starting QB doesnt end up on a division rival often enough to make this claim. and the QB having more insight than a positional player is definitely part of the "argument"

i'd wager that if you asked Kyle, he wouldnt be happy with JG breaking down his philosophies to a division rival.

It's not really the philosophy of the offense that is in danger of being revealed by an ex-player, it's all the terminology for checks and audibles that would help the opposing defense. So if Jimmy were to be a Seahawk and spill the beans to Pete Carroll, the 49ers would have to revamp their terminology (and hand signals) when it comes to making audibles at the line of scrimmage. All the other stuff (play designs, scheme) is scouted and seen on film. I agree Jimmy spilling the beans would help SEA, how much depends on how much is different with the 49ers 2022 playbook.

and i doubt the playbook changes that much. for it to do so would be wasting much of what Trey was taught last year under Jimmy. and also Kyle has said the playbook isn't changing.

Originally posted by boast:

History shows us such information will not provide a significant advantage

this claim doesn't make sense. there's no real similar history to look back on. the former starting QB doesnt end up on a division rival often enough to make this claim. and the QB having more insight than a positional player is definitely part of the "argument"

i'd wager that if you asked Kyle, he wouldnt be happy with JG breaking down his philosophies to a division rival.

1) If such information provided a significant competitive advantage (wins), there would be evidence supporting that claim. You made the claim, not me. It's not my responsibility to defend my claim, it's up to you to defend your claim, and then for me to counter your evidence. On that note, McNabb was brought up, and he didn't help Washington. There are, of course, examples where one can infer there was an advantage. There are also examples where one can infer no such advantage was provided. Hence why I mentioned the impossibility of being able to isolate the relevant variables. Neither of our arguments have solid footing. But you made the initial claim, and as such, you are the party responsible for defending it.

2) The argument is not whether the QB has more insight than a positional player. This was not the conclusion presented. The conclusion was said insight provided a significant competitive advantage that will trasnlate to wins (Seattle was brought up to illustrate this point, though that's a terrible example). There is little to support the claim increased insight of an ex player leads to wins for his new team--all variables considered and isolated.

For example, if we are playing Roulette, and you tell me the identity of one number that will not come up, it gives me an advantage. If you (QB insight) tell me of two numbers that won't come up, I have a greater advantage. But if that second number doesn't consistently lead to wins, all other variables isolated, then you cannot make the claim said information provided a significant competitive advantage (wins). You can, and I agree, there is an advantage. But I absolutely disagree said advantage is significant enough to result in wins (specifically because of, and consistently). There is nothing to support that specific claim.

3) I agree KS wouldn't be happy about the situation you've provided. But I do not think he would be losing a ton of sleep over it, either. It's 2022. There is so much video, analysis, dissection of plays / games, the information JG can provide, on the whole, is available anyway (not all of it, obviously). Further, if Seattle came with a first or second round pick for JG, do you really think Kyle would prevent the trade because of "information?" Come on.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by boast:
because that comment wasnt well thought out or logical. it's an apples and oranges comparison. there's a huge difference between a division rival signing a back up TE or 3rd CB and signing a starting QB who's been in the system for five years. the QB brings far more knowledge of the scheme and philosophy behind it to the rival than a positional player.

and you dont see a starting caliber QB being made available to a division rival often at all.

The comment was mine. It was logical. And you had / have no counterpoint.

I agree a starting QB will bring more insight than a positional player. But that's not the argument. The argument is whether said information will provide a significant advantage (i.e. victories). History shows us such information will not provide a significant advantage. You have not been able to provide a clear connection between the type of information a starting QB may be able to provide, and victories. There are far more examples undermining your position, than supporting it. And there are far more variables at play than you can isolate (which undermines both your argument, and mine).

History shows us such information will not provide a significant advantage

this claim doesn't make sense. there's no real similar history to look back on. the former starting QB doesnt end up on a division rival often enough to make this claim. and the QB having more insight than a positional player is definitely part of the "argument"

i'd wager that if you asked Kyle, he wouldnt be happy with JG breaking down his philosophies to a division rival.

It's not really the philosophy of the offense that is in danger of being revealed by an ex-player, it's all the terminology for checks and audibles that would help the opposing defense. So if Jimmy were to be a Seahawk and spill the beans to Pete Carroll, the 49ers would have to revamp their terminology (and hand signals) when it comes to making audibles at the line of scrimmage. All the other stuff (play designs, scheme) is scouted and seen on film. I agree Jimmy spilling the beans would help SEA, how much depends on how much is different with the 49ers 2022 playbook.

Jimmy doesn't have a 2022 playbook nor has he taken part in meetings or practice. If Kyle is smart, like I know he is, he will have already taken care of this.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Originally posted by Butter:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/08/18/the-tom-brady-training-camp-hiatus-gets-stranger-and-stranger/

Brady pulls a last min retirement, Jimmy to the Bucs. Boo-ya

LMFAO. Now we are hoping and praying for a Brady retirement.

Everyone should. One less contender in the NFC to worry about

Originally posted by thl408:
It's not really the philosophy of the offense that is in danger of being revealed by an ex-player, it's all the terminology for checks and audibles that would help the opposing defense. So if Jimmy were to be a Seahawk and spill the beans to Pete Carroll, the 49ers would have to revamp their terminology (and hand signals) when it comes to making audibles at the line of scrimmage. All the other stuff (play designs, scheme) is scouted and seen on film. I agree Jimmy spilling the beans would help SEA, how much depends on how much is different with the 49ers 2022 playbook.

What I said is there is nothing to support the claim, initially presented, that said information provides a significant competitive advantage (wins). An advantage? Of course. Difficulty for the old team? Of course, as you have illustrated. But consistently winning due to this information? There is no evidence to support that claim. For every example one can give to support that claim, one can find (at least) one counterexample.

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by boast:
because that comment wasnt well thought out or logical. it's an apples and oranges comparison. there's a huge difference between a division rival signing a back up TE or 3rd CB and signing a starting QB who's been in the system for five years. the QB brings far more knowledge of the scheme and philosophy behind it to the rival than a positional player.

and you dont see a starting caliber QB being made available to a division rival often at all.

The comment was mine. It was logical. And you had / have no counterpoint.

I agree a starting QB will bring more insight than a positional player. But that's not the argument. The argument is whether said information will provide a significant advantage (i.e. victories). History shows us such information will not provide a significant advantage. You have not been able to provide a clear connection between the type of information a starting QB may be able to provide, and victories. There are far more examples undermining your position, than supporting it. And there are far more variables at play than you can isolate (which undermines both your argument, and mine).

History shows us such information will not provide a significant advantage

this claim doesn't make sense. there's no real similar history to look back on. the former starting QB doesnt end up on a division rival often enough to make this claim. and the QB having more insight than a positional player is definitely part of the "argument"

i'd wager that if you asked Kyle, he wouldnt be happy with JG breaking down his philosophies to a division rival.

It's not really the philosophy of the offense that is in danger of being revealed by an ex-player, it's all the terminology for checks and audibles that would help the opposing defense. So if Jimmy were to be a Seahawk and spill the beans to Pete Carroll, the 49ers would have to revamp their terminology (and hand signals) when it comes to making audibles at the line of scrimmage. All the other stuff (play designs, scheme) is scouted and seen on film. I agree Jimmy spilling the beans would help SEA, how much depends on how much is different with the 49ers 2022 playbook.

and i doubt the playbook changes that much. for it to do so would be wasting much of what Trey was taught last year under Jimmy. and also Kyle has said the playbook isn't changing.

If the playbook hasn't changed much then SEA has already studied the SF playbook plenty over the past five seasons. I suppose Jimmy can also tell SEA what the plans are with Lance in certain situations (goal line, 2 minute). SEA vs SF in week 2 where there won't be a lot of film out of the Lance offense - any hints can help. Jimmy has not been in any 49er meetings this offseason so what he knows might not be up to date.
Overall, I'd like for Jimmy to be a Seahawk purely from the entertainment perspective. The week leading up to SEA vs SF, and it being Jimmy's revenge game would be fun for us fans.

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Is it possible for you to post in this thread without using the word feelings, triggered, haters, or anything of that nature? My god give it a rest.

Who cares if Seattle gets Jimmy? I find it hard to believe that even the biggest Jimmy fans would believe that Jimmy makes Seattle a threat.

of course this is the truth...... suddenly we are fearful of him going to seattle.. who gives a rats ass... people who say that must have zero faith in our defense... of all teams in the nfl.. we know exactly what he can not do.... i hope he goes to seattle and i hope our defense brutalizes him

Da fuq lol? Why give a division rival any sort of advantage? JG is better than anyone they currently have and may have incite on any tendencies of this offense or even Lance. It typically takes 17 games on film for the league to figure out a QB, why speed that up just for them.

I get it, we are a superior team why be afraid of anyone blah blah blah. It's competition and gamesmanship, we were one inch and one game from going from homefield advantage to a wildcard in 2019. We were a miraculous comeback and one game away from not even making the playoffs last year. Keep any advantage you can and deny other teams that benefit... its not f*ckin rocket science when it comes to competitive sports lol.

jimmy give seattle no advantage over us.... wilson did.. but not jimmy.. the advantage we had last year vs the rams.. packers and cowboys.. was not jimmy.. it was deebo

The advantage would come from cutting him now and giving him and Seattle more time to practice together. How can anyone be this dense?

i totally understand this.... i guess i just want him off the team asap to please myself.. selfish cc... i do not think anyone is dense. i just think.. it would just make us feel better... by saying that i just put the "I" ahead of the team! i can wait another two weeks

The bolded is the truth for ALL who don't like him and are saying to cut him now, at least you're man enough to say it.

Originally posted by RiceOwensStokes:

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Originally posted by Butter:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/08/18/the-tom-brady-training-camp-hiatus-gets-stranger-and-stranger/

Brady pulls a last min retirement, Jimmy to the Bucs. Boo-ya

LMFAO. Now we are hoping and praying for a Brady retirement.

Everyone should. One less contender in the NFC to worry about

F that our team is good enough to beat them. If we win a SB, I want to beat teams at their best.

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by boast:

History shows us such information will not provide a significant advantage

this claim doesn't make sense. there's no real similar history to look back on. the former starting QB doesnt end up on a division rival often enough to make this claim. and the QB having more insight than a positional player is definitely part of the "argument"

i'd wager that if you asked Kyle, he wouldnt be happy with JG breaking down his philosophies to a division rival.

1) If such information provided a significant competitive advantage (wins), there would be evidence supporting that claim. You made the claim, not me. It's not my responsibility to defend my claim, it's up to you to defend your claim, and then for me to counter your evidence. On that note, McNabb was brought up, and he didn't help Washington. There are, of course, examples where one can infer there was an advantage. There are also examples where one can infer no such advantage was provided. Hence why I mentioned the impossibility of being able to isolate the relevant variables. Neither of our arguments have solid footing. But you made the initial claim, and as such, you are the party responsible for defending it.

2) The argument is not whether the QB has more insight than a positional player. This was not the conclusion presented. The conclusion was said insight provided a significant competitive advantage that will trasnlate to wins (Seattle was brought up to illustrate this point, though that's a terrible example). There is little to support the claim increased insight of an ex player leads to wins for his new team--all variables considered and isolated.

For example, if we are playing Roulette, and you tell me the identity of one number that will not come up, it gives me an advantage. If you (QB insight) tell me of two numbers that won't come up, I have a greater advantage. But if that second number doesn't consistently lead to wins, all other variables isolated, then you cannot make the claim said information provided a significant competitive advantage (wins). You can, and I agree, there is an advantage. But I absolutely disagree said advantage is significant enough to result in wins (specifically because of, and consistently). There is nothing to support that specific claim.

3) I agree KS wouldn't be happy about the situation you've provided. But I do not think he would be losing a ton of sleep over it, either. It's 2022. There is so much video, analysis, dissection of plays / games, the information JG can provide, on the whole, is available anyway (not all of it, obviously). Further, if Seattle came with a first or second round pick for JG, do you really think Kyle would prevent the trade because of "information?" Come on.

in the context of the original discussion, someone said "we should all hope the Rams sign JG" . my counter was that we should NOT hope that because JG would bring intimate knowledge of Niners scheme and secrets behind it. my entire point of that comment was to not give even the smallest edge to a division rival. you and others brought up "historical competitive advantages equaling wins blah blah blah.." as counter. to deny that JG could offer even the smallest advantage (enough to change the outcome of a game) to someone as smart as McVay is ridiculous.

and Andy Reid knowingly traded McNabb to WAS because he acquired Vick. Reid completely redid his playbook for Vick's different skillset. also McNabb was completely washed by 2010.

Originally posted by thl408:
If the playbook hasn't changed much then SEA has already studied the SF playbook plenty over the past five seasons. I suppose Jimmy can also tell SEA what the plans are with Lance in certain situations (goal line, 2 minute). SEA vs SF in week 2 where there won't be a lot of film out of the Lance offense - any hints can help. Jimmy has not been in any 49er meetings this offseason so what he knows might not be up to date.
Overall, I'd like for Jimmy to be a Seahawk purely from the entertainment perspective. The week leading up to SEA vs SF, and it being Jimmy's revenge game would be fun for us fans.

You just want to moderate the "Jimmy haters" vs "Jimmy Stan's" and hand out warnings/timeouts in the game thread. I'm on to you thl

my song for today..

You gotta know when to hold em... know when to fooooolld em..

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Originally posted by Butter:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/08/18/the-tom-brady-training-camp-hiatus-gets-stranger-and-stranger/

Brady pulls a last min retirement, Jimmy to the Bucs. Boo-ya

LMFAO. Now we are hoping and praying for a Brady retirement.

Hopefully the smiley face tips that this post was a joke

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
my song for today..

You gotta know when to hold em... know when to fooooolld em..

LOL

12 more days