Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by dj43:
If Lance cannot deal with the reality that a Super Bowl contender needs a quality backup behind the starter, he needs to develop thicker skin. Prior to JG redoing his contract, there was nothing but complaining about the lack of depth behind the "very inexperienced" Lance. Now we have what we need to assure a good run to the playoffs even if Lance is hurt. Time to set the excuses aside and recognize Lance will continue to make mistakes, and some may cost us games, but being on a good team with a quality backup should not excuse anything on his part. Garoppolo has been an Alex Smith presence to Lance. This is not a Rodgers/Farve deal where the QBs hated each other.

You forget about what Jimmy said when he thought someone would trade for him or that he wouldn't be on the team anymore? He said he wouldn't wish it on anyone (him and Lance situation). I don't think the picture you are trying to paint is really what it is IMO

I think the situation he was in was as an established starter, you're trying to lead your team but they obviously drafted your replacement, made it clear to you that he's your replacement but want you to go give it everything you got and then some all while your coach is dabbling with what he can do in the run game with a running QB and inserting him in the game at times, disrupting your flow and being told to mentor, groom and teach your replacement how to be your replacement when you're in the prime of your career. I don't think he'd wish THAT on anybody. Not, having another QB who can start on the roster.

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Trey only played 1 game his senior year because of Covid. I wonder how much more prepared he would be if he had played that year. He certainly wouldn't have been as rusty. The 49ers have never drafted a QB that had so little experience. The fact that they saw enough raw talent to still draft him that high despite the lack of experience says a lot.

Not sure if it says a lot about lance's talent, our scouting stupidity, or our inability to tailor the game to lance.

Jimmy is better at game managing these close games. He has more clock awareness. He's not going to huddle up 7 minutes to go down two scores.

This is all shanahans fault though. Jimmy and lance are completely different players but the offense and conservative game planning looks the exact same.

The passing map looks the same as well. Every team know where going to throw it down the middle most of the time and don't attack the sidelines.

It's become apparent shanny is a plug and play guy. He believes he can make his "system" work regardless of the players in it.

TBF, I'm pretty sure I was saying this all last season and was told I didn't know what the offense was about and that it was just tailored to Jimmy.

I've been saying it for 2 years now, this offense is about attacking the LB's and safeties over the middle, get them moving horizontally and retreating or attacking and hit them to tie it in to the run game.

The slot fade throw was a nice way to attack their press-man, but we saw Jimmy take the exact same shot to Aiyuk vs the exact same team last year.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by dj43:
If Lance cannot deal with the reality that a Super Bowl contender needs a quality backup behind the starter, he needs to develop thicker skin. Prior to JG redoing his contract, there was nothing but complaining about the lack of depth behind the "very inexperienced" Lance. Now we have what we need to assure a good run to the playoffs even if Lance is hurt. Time to set the excuses aside and recognize Lance will continue to make mistakes, and some may cost us games, but being on a good team with a quality backup should not excuse anything on his part. Garoppolo has been an Alex Smith presence to Lance. This is not a Rodgers/Farve deal where the QBs hated each other.

You forget about what Jimmy said when he thought someone would trade for him or that he wouldn't be on the team anymore? He said he wouldn't wish it on anyone (him and Lance situation). I don't think the picture you are trying to paint is really what it is IMO

I think the situation he was in was as an established starter, you're trying to lead your team but they obviously drafted your replacement, made it clear to you that he's your replacement but want you to go give it everything you got and then some all while your coach is dabbling with what he can do in the run game with a running QB and inserting him in the game at times, disrupting your flow and being told to mentor, groom and teach your replacement how to be your replacement when you're in the prime of your career. I don't think he'd wish THAT on anybody. Not, having another QB who can start on the roster.

Okay well however you want to describe it too; it's most definitely not all rosy in that QB room with them holding hands and singing kumbaya like some would like to believe.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
TBF, I'm pretty sure I was saying this all last season and was told I didn't know what the offense was about and that it was just tailored to Jimmy.

I've been saying it for 2 years now, this offense is about attacking the LB's and safeties over the middle, get them moving horizontally and retreating or attacking and hit them to tie it in to the run game.

The slot fade throw was a nice way to attack their press-man, but we saw Jimmy take the exact same shot to Aiyuk vs the exact same team last year.

By the time Lance is more of a finished product, and we STILL are running a Jimmy style offense, then I will be the first to say you are correct. But making that judgement after 3 starts (one of which was in the rain), is something I refuse to do.

Sunday looked similar to a Jimmy game. I just dont know if we can make conclusions about the offense after that game.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
TBF, I'm pretty sure I was saying this all last season and was told I didn't know what the offense was about and that it was just tailored to Jimmy.

I've been saying it for 2 years now, this offense is about attacking the LB's and safeties over the middle, get them moving horizontally and retreating or attacking and hit them to tie it in to the run game.

The slot fade throw was a nice way to attack their press-man, but we saw Jimmy take the exact same shot to Aiyuk vs the exact same team last year.

By the time Lance is more of a finished product, and we STILL are running a Jimmy style offense, then I will be the first to say you are correct. But making that judgement after 3 starts (one of which was in the rain), is something I refuse to do.

Sunday looked similar to a Jimmy game. I just dont know if we can make conclusions about the offense after that game.

Same. And if we keeping it real here; his spray charts from last seasons games looks NOTHING like Jimmy's. This has already been discussed in one of these threads

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
TBF, I'm pretty sure I was saying this all last season and was told I didn't know what the offense was about and that it was just tailored to Jimmy.

I've been saying it for 2 years now, this offense is about attacking the LB's and safeties over the middle, get them moving horizontally and retreating or attacking and hit them to tie it in to the run game.

The slot fade throw was a nice way to attack their press-man, but we saw Jimmy take the exact same shot to Aiyuk vs the exact same team last year.

By the time Lance is more of a finished product, and we STILL are running a Jimmy style offense, then I will be the first to say you are correct. But making that judgement after 3 starts (one of which was in the rain), is something I refuse to do.

Sunday looked similar to a Jimmy game. I just dont know if we can make conclusions about the offense after that game.

Same. And if we keeping it real here; his spray charts from last seasons games looks NOTHING like Jimmy's. This has already been discussed in one of these threads

and I've already talked about a big reason for that was Lance hitting throws in the 2nd window, not the first or rolling out and throwing a ball in a scramble drill. The plays were the same as what you saw with Jimmy and what you saw Sunday.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
TBF, I'm pretty sure I was saying this all last season and was told I didn't know what the offense was about and that it was just tailored to Jimmy.

I've been saying it for 2 years now, this offense is about attacking the LB's and safeties over the middle, get them moving horizontally and retreating or attacking and hit them to tie it in to the run game.

The slot fade throw was a nice way to attack their press-man, but we saw Jimmy take the exact same shot to Aiyuk vs the exact same team last year.

By the time Lance is more of a finished product, and we STILL are running a Jimmy style offense, then I will be the first to say you are correct. But making that judgement after 3 starts (one of which was in the rain), is something I refuse to do.

Sunday looked similar to a Jimmy game. I just dont know if we can make conclusions about the offense after that game.

That's the problem, you assume it's a, "Jimmy style offense". What has ever made you think Kyle doesn't want to run Kyle's offense? He's talked about this in his pressers umpteen million times. The difference with Trey is variations and counters you can do off of the stuff you already do - like QB keepers on bootlegs, read-option looks on runs, things that make a defense account for the QB.....This is Kyle's words, not mine but you've always assumed I think the offense looks the way it does in defense of Jimmy.

I've said it a million times, Kyle attacks LB's. you can see the patterns in every game. He just does it a little different from week to week but he still attacks the middle of the field because that's what affects the run game.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
TBF, I'm pretty sure I was saying this all last season and was told I didn't know what the offense was about and that it was just tailored to Jimmy.

I've been saying it for 2 years now, this offense is about attacking the LB's and safeties over the middle, get them moving horizontally and retreating or attacking and hit them to tie it in to the run game.

The slot fade throw was a nice way to attack their press-man, but we saw Jimmy take the exact same shot to Aiyuk vs the exact same team last year.

By the time Lance is more of a finished product, and we STILL are running a Jimmy style offense, then I will be the first to say you are correct. But making that judgement after 3 starts (one of which was in the rain), is something I refuse to do.

Sunday looked similar to a Jimmy game. I just dont know if we can make conclusions about the offense after that game.

That's the problem, you assume it's a, "Jimmy style offense". What has ever made you think Kyle doesn't want to run Kyle's offense? He's talked about this in his pressers umpteen million times. The difference with Trey is variations and counters you can do off of the stuff you already do - like QB keepers on bootlegs, read-option looks on runs, things that make a defense account for the QB.....This is Kyle's words, not mine but you've always assumed I think the offense looks the way it does in defense of Jimmy.

I've said it a million times, Kyle attacks LB's. you can see the patterns in every game. He just does it a little different from week to week but he still attacks the middle of the field because that's what affects the run game.

It's a fair assumption up until now. Because most smart coaches would know a sideline deep pass is safer than a pass down the middle.

It's usually 1 on 1 and even if you throw it where nobody can catch it it's like 50/50 you get a pass interference call anyway.

The assumption has always been Jimmy didn't have the arm strength to get it to the sidelines deep consistently so that's why we did not run those plays.

It's turning out now Kyle just thinks he's a genius and prefers to throw the ball risky in the middle as per your statement above.

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
TBF, I'm pretty sure I was saying this all last season and was told I didn't know what the offense was about and that it was just tailored to Jimmy.

I've been saying it for 2 years now, this offense is about attacking the LB's and safeties over the middle, get them moving horizontally and retreating or attacking and hit them to tie it in to the run game.

The slot fade throw was a nice way to attack their press-man, but we saw Jimmy take the exact same shot to Aiyuk vs the exact same team last year.

By the time Lance is more of a finished product, and we STILL are running a Jimmy style offense, then I will be the first to say you are correct. But making that judgement after 3 starts (one of which was in the rain), is something I refuse to do.

Sunday looked similar to a Jimmy game. I just dont know if we can make conclusions about the offense after that game.

That's the problem, you assume it's a, "Jimmy style offense". What has ever made you think Kyle doesn't want to run Kyle's offense? He's talked about this in his pressers umpteen million times. The difference with Trey is variations and counters you can do off of the stuff you already do - like QB keepers on bootlegs, read-option looks on runs, things that make a defense account for the QB.....This is Kyle's words, not mine but you've always assumed I think the offense looks the way it does in defense of Jimmy.

I've said it a million times, Kyle attacks LB's. you can see the patterns in every game. He just does it a little different from week to week but he still attacks the middle of the field because that's what affects the run game.

It's a fair assumption up until now. Because most smart coaches would know a sideline deep pass is safer than a pass down the middle.

It's usually 1 on 1 and even if you throw it where nobody can catch it it's like 50/50 you get a pass interference call anyway.

The assumption has always been Jimmy didn't have the arm strength to get it to the sidelines deep consistently so that's why we did not run those plays.

It's turning out now Kyle just thinks he's a genius and prefers to throw the ball risky in the middle as per your statement above.

No, those plays aren't less risky. The success rate of those throws is only like 35% league wide. You either need a speed guy, like Jerry Jeudy, Metcalf or a top tier WR who can win a bunch of different routes, like an Evans, Adams, etc. There's a reason you don't see Cooper Kupp running a bunch of fly routes. It also doesn't affect the defense when you just take shots. Fields took a # of shots at Ward on those throws Sunday and we didn't change the way we played defense, at all.

You run the risk of putting your team in 2nd and long and behind schedule or 3rd and long or 3rd down period to gain what? The LB's haven't been affected by that play. They don't have to now think about going and covering the deep 1/3 and the run.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
TBF, I'm pretty sure I was saying this all last season and was told I didn't know what the offense was about and that it was just tailored to Jimmy.

I've been saying it for 2 years now, this offense is about attacking the LB's and safeties over the middle, get them moving horizontally and retreating or attacking and hit them to tie it in to the run game.

The slot fade throw was a nice way to attack their press-man, but we saw Jimmy take the exact same shot to Aiyuk vs the exact same team last year.

By the time Lance is more of a finished product, and we STILL are running a Jimmy style offense, then I will be the first to say you are correct. But making that judgement after 3 starts (one of which was in the rain), is something I refuse to do.

Sunday looked similar to a Jimmy game. I just dont know if we can make conclusions about the offense after that game.

Same. And if we keeping it real here; his spray charts from last seasons games looks NOTHING like Jimmy's. This has already been discussed in one of these threads

and I've already talked about a big reason for that was Lance hitting throws in the 2nd window, not the first or rolling out and throwing a ball in a scramble drill. The plays were the same as what you saw with Jimmy and what you saw Sunday.

Okay and I've already been talking about it too and even created a thread to do so. Was Lance hitting those 2nd window throws a reflection of him being more "willing" to throw them then Jimmy was? If the play call was exactly the same, with the same route trees, why such a drastic difference in the spray charts if those were always options for Jimmy as well? Did Kyle determine it? How I interpret what you are saying is what I've been called a Jimmy hater for; is that a lot of Jimmy's plays were predetermined and he threw to his first read most times.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by ChillninDaBay:

Originally posted by HONEYBADGER:
Lance reminds me of dare I say......

Kapernick

Cant seem to read a defense pre-snap and can't get past his first look.

It's not looking good, you can have all the physical gifts in the world but if you have a 🥔 for a brain.....that can't be fixed.

Hell NO. Trey is way more accurate with his passes than Krap. Trey is a stronger runner than Krap. Trey actually goes through his progression before throwing the ball unlike Krap. Trey stays in the pocket and passes the ball if it's a passing play and doesn't take off running unless necessary unlike Krap. Trey is 110% more mature than Krap ever will be. Trey has good character which Krap will never have. Those strong positive attributes will serve Trey in the long run in the NFL unlike a fraud like Krap who was replace by Blaine Gabbert, never made 1 Pro Bowl, got Harb fired for betting on Fool's gold over a steady QB like Alex Smith in his prime and didn't earn the QB1 position, choked in the SB, and raise race issues for greed and $$$$ knowing he has been exposed for his shortcoming as a QB in the NFL, Krap is Krap and he got exposed and got exactly the Karma he deserved, never to be seen in NFL again.

Krap_er_pick was a better runner and thrower than Tr_EXCUSES. Certainly a better runner by a long shot. Much more explosive speed. It's not close.

Jimmy G is a better QB than both of them.

Lmao 🤣
Krap is and ALWAYS WAS scared of getting hit when he played in the NFL especially when he ran, not Trey, recognize fool. Towards the end of Krap's short NFL career he wasn't running anymore, the defense caught up to him that's when he was even more scared to run, another one of his flaws when he was already a inaccurate QB that never went through his progressions and never really spend his own time studying the playbook and the game like Trey or even Jimmy and definitely not like Alex Smith, why he never made 1 pro bowl, choked in the SB, got Harb fired and was replaced by Blaine Gabbert then kicked out and never picked up by any other NFL team ever again, Krap is CRAP.

Note: if Krap was actually good at all, you would think KS would have kept him when he took over as HC, did he?
HELL NO 🤣

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
TBF, I'm pretty sure I was saying this all last season and was told I didn't know what the offense was about and that it was just tailored to Jimmy.

I've been saying it for 2 years now, this offense is about attacking the LB's and safeties over the middle, get them moving horizontally and retreating or attacking and hit them to tie it in to the run game.

The slot fade throw was a nice way to attack their press-man, but we saw Jimmy take the exact same shot to Aiyuk vs the exact same team last year.

By the time Lance is more of a finished product, and we STILL are running a Jimmy style offense, then I will be the first to say you are correct. But making that judgement after 3 starts (one of which was in the rain), is something I refuse to do.

Sunday looked similar to a Jimmy game. I just dont know if we can make conclusions about the offense after that game.

Same. And if we keeping it real here; his spray charts from last seasons games looks NOTHING like Jimmy's. This has already been discussed in one of these threads

and I've already talked about a big reason for that was Lance hitting throws in the 2nd window, not the first or rolling out and throwing a ball in a scramble drill. The plays were the same as what you saw with Jimmy and what you saw Sunday.

Okay and I've already been talking about it too and even created a thread to do so. Was Lance hitting those 2nd window throws a reflection of him being more "willing" to throw them then Jimmy was? If the play call was exactly the same, with the same route trees, why such a drastic difference in the spray charts if those were always options for Jimmy as well? Did Kyle determine it? How I interpret what you are saying is what I've been called a Jimmy hater for; is that a lot of Jimmy's plays were predetermined and he threw to his first read most times.

No, by 2nd window what I'm talking about is, for example, you have a deep over off play action. When he turns around the route is immediately open between the hashes and that's when Jimmy usually threw it. We all saw Deebo take several of those to the house over the years. Trey, would hesitate just a sec and then hit it on the other side of the hook/curl more out to the #'s. Hit some DIGS like this. they were open immediately over the middle, hesitate, roll out hit the same route by the numbers as the guy is running across the field.
1st window and 2nd window are terms for where the holes will be in the defense along the path of the route. A deep over, for example, will have a first window between the hashses vs C3 and a 2nd window out by the #'s. Jimmy was usually a first window thrower. Personally, I don't trust our OL to operate as a 2nd window passing offense on the regular.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
TBF, I'm pretty sure I was saying this all last season and was told I didn't know what the offense was about and that it was just tailored to Jimmy.

I've been saying it for 2 years now, this offense is about attacking the LB's and safeties over the middle, get them moving horizontally and retreating or attacking and hit them to tie it in to the run game.

The slot fade throw was a nice way to attack their press-man, but we saw Jimmy take the exact same shot to Aiyuk vs the exact same team last year.

By the time Lance is more of a finished product, and we STILL are running a Jimmy style offense, then I will be the first to say you are correct. But making that judgement after 3 starts (one of which was in the rain), is something I refuse to do.

Sunday looked similar to a Jimmy game. I just dont know if we can make conclusions about the offense after that game.

Same. And if we keeping it real here; his spray charts from last seasons games looks NOTHING like Jimmy's. This has already been discussed in one of these threads

and I've already talked about a big reason for that was Lance hitting throws in the 2nd window, not the first or rolling out and throwing a ball in a scramble drill. The plays were the same as what you saw with Jimmy and what you saw Sunday.

Okay and I've already been talking about it too and even created a thread to do so. Was Lance hitting those 2nd window throws a reflection of him being more "willing" to throw them then Jimmy was? If the play call was exactly the same, with the same route trees, why such a drastic difference in the spray charts if those were always options for Jimmy as well? Did Kyle determine it? How I interpret what you are saying is what I've been called a Jimmy hater for; is that a lot of Jimmy's plays were predetermined and he threw to his first read most times.

No, by 2nd window what I'm talking about is, for example, you have a deep over off play action. When he turns around the route is immediately open between the hashes and that's when Jimmy usually threw it. We all saw Deebo take several of those to the house over the years. Trey, would hesitate just a sec and then hit it on the other side of the hook/curl more out to the #'s. Hit some DIGS like this. they were open immediately over the middle, hesitate, roll out hit the same route by the numbers as the guy is running across the field.
1st window and 2nd window are terms for where the holes will be in the defense along the path of the route. A deep over, for example, will have a first window between the hashses vs C3 and a 2nd window out by the #'s. Jimmy was usually a first window thrower. Personally, I don't trust our OL to operate as a 2nd window passing offense on the regular.

That makes sense. I don't think the spray charts reflects a difference only because of Trey hitting the receivers in the 2nd window though but I guess it is all yet to be determined at least for me. 3 games isn't enough of a sample size for me to know what an offense looks like yet and I'm a firm believer in any offensive or defensive coach making adjustments/scheming/calling plays based on the players they have, QB included.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
TBF, I'm pretty sure I was saying this all last season and was told I didn't know what the offense was about and that it was just tailored to Jimmy.

I've been saying it for 2 years now, this offense is about attacking the LB's and safeties over the middle, get them moving horizontally and retreating or attacking and hit them to tie it in to the run game.

The slot fade throw was a nice way to attack their press-man, but we saw Jimmy take the exact same shot to Aiyuk vs the exact same team last year.

By the time Lance is more of a finished product, and we STILL are running a Jimmy style offense, then I will be the first to say you are correct. But making that judgement after 3 starts (one of which was in the rain), is something I refuse to do.

Sunday looked similar to a Jimmy game. I just dont know if we can make conclusions about the offense after that game.

Same. And if we keeping it real here; his spray charts from last seasons games looks NOTHING like Jimmy's. This has already been discussed in one of these threads

and I've already talked about a big reason for that was Lance hitting throws in the 2nd window, not the first or rolling out and throwing a ball in a scramble drill. The plays were the same as what you saw with Jimmy and what you saw Sunday.

Okay and I've already been talking about it too and even created a thread to do so. Was Lance hitting those 2nd window throws a reflection of him being more "willing" to throw them then Jimmy was? If the play call was exactly the same, with the same route trees, why such a drastic difference in the spray charts if those were always options for Jimmy as well? Did Kyle determine it? How I interpret what you are saying is what I've been called a Jimmy hater for; is that a lot of Jimmy's plays were predetermined and he threw to his first read most times.

No, by 2nd window what I'm talking about is, for example, you have a deep over off play action. When he turns around the route is immediately open between the hashes and that's when Jimmy usually threw it. We all saw Deebo take several of those to the house over the years. Trey, would hesitate just a sec and then hit it on the other side of the hook/curl more out to the #'s. Hit some DIGS like this. they were open immediately over the middle, hesitate, roll out hit the same route by the numbers as the guy is running across the field.
1st window and 2nd window are terms for where the holes will be in the defense along the path of the route. A deep over, for example, will have a first window between the hashses vs C3 and a 2nd window out by the #'s. Jimmy was usually a first window thrower. Personally, I don't trust our OL to operate as a 2nd window passing offense on the regular.

That makes sense. I don't think the spray charts reflects a difference only because of Trey hitting the receivers in the 2nd window though but I guess it is all yet to be determined at least for me. 3 games isn't enough of a sample size for me to know what an offense looks like yet and I'm a firm believer in any offensive or defensive coach making adjustments/scheming/calling plays based on the players they have, QB included.

Never said it was all 2nd window. Remember, Lance also had a number of rollout throws that were off-script. Overall, he hasn't been operating some different offense.

There's 2 types of philosophies. Coaches who tailor an offense to their players and coaches who tailor players to their offense. Mike Shanahan and Bill Walsh were the latter. RB's were gonna run Mike's wide zone, no matter who they were. Steve Young was going to operate a WC offense. He could've run an air-coryell or an offense tailored around his running ability but he was great when he ran Mike's offense at a super high level.

Kyle will be the same way. He'll use Lance's running as a tool against the defense but largely he wants Trey to run his offense.

This dude looks like he has it.