Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by Heroism:
This dude looks like he has it.

I don't think people talk enough about how much Jimmy's ACL injury affected him. He was much more mobile and kept plays alive before the KC game. :/

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by random49er:
Jimmy's time here is done. Due to injury he may get a few games but that's about it. Can't put too much emphasis on the results of a game that had such sloppy conditions for both teams.

The conditions had little impact in the first half. We should have had at least a 14-point lead at the half. Deebo's fumble and the Kroft overthrow were not impacted by the weather at all.

I disagree. That Deebo fumble for a score certainly perhaps had to do with the conditions.

He missed a couple throws for sure....one for a TD.

Maybe u are ready to overemphasize a game where the opponent QB had like no completions to a WR for an entire first half....lol. But I'm not ready for that. The conditions to begin weren't favorable for either young QB.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I don't think people talk enough about how much Jimmy's ACL injury affected him. He was much more mobile and kept plays alive before the KC game. :/

He ain't the same. I was a huge Jimmy fan coming out of college. The kid ain't the same.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
TBF, I'm pretty sure I was saying this all last season and was told I didn't know what the offense was about and that it was just tailored to Jimmy.

I've been saying it for 2 years now, this offense is about attacking the LB's and safeties over the middle, get them moving horizontally and retreating or attacking and hit them to tie it in to the run game.

The slot fade throw was a nice way to attack their press-man, but we saw Jimmy take the exact same shot to Aiyuk vs the exact same team last year.

By the time Lance is more of a finished product, and we STILL are running a Jimmy style offense, then I will be the first to say you are correct. But making that judgement after 3 starts (one of which was in the rain), is something I refuse to do.

Sunday looked similar to a Jimmy game. I just dont know if we can make conclusions about the offense after that game.

Same. And if we keeping it real here; his spray charts from last seasons games looks NOTHING like Jimmy's. This has already been discussed in one of these threads

and I've already talked about a big reason for that was Lance hitting throws in the 2nd window, not the first or rolling out and throwing a ball in a scramble drill. The plays were the same as what you saw with Jimmy and what you saw Sunday.

Okay and I've already been talking about it too and even created a thread to do so. Was Lance hitting those 2nd window throws a reflection of him being more "willing" to throw them then Jimmy was? If the play call was exactly the same, with the same route trees, why such a drastic difference in the spray charts if those were always options for Jimmy as well? Did Kyle determine it? How I interpret what you are saying is what I've been called a Jimmy hater for; is that a lot of Jimmy's plays were predetermined and he threw to his first read most times.

No, by 2nd window what I'm talking about is, for example, you have a deep over off play action. When he turns around the route is immediately open between the hashes and that's when Jimmy usually threw it. We all saw Deebo take several of those to the house over the years. Trey, would hesitate just a sec and then hit it on the other side of the hook/curl more out to the #'s. Hit some DIGS like this. they were open immediately over the middle, hesitate, roll out hit the same route by the numbers as the guy is running across the field.
1st window and 2nd window are terms for where the holes will be in the defense along the path of the route. A deep over, for example, will have a first window between the hashses vs C3 and a 2nd window out by the #'s. Jimmy was usually a first window thrower. Personally, I don't trust our OL to operate as a 2nd window passing offense on the regular.

That makes sense. I don't think the spray charts reflects a difference only because of Trey hitting the receivers in the 2nd window though but I guess it is all yet to be determined at least for me. 3 games isn't enough of a sample size for me to know what an offense looks like yet and I'm a firm believer in any offensive or defensive coach making adjustments/scheming/calling plays based on the players they have, QB included.

Never said it was all 2nd window. Remember, Lance also had a number of rollout throws that were off-script. Overall, he hasn't been operating some different offense.

There's 2 types of philosophies. Coaches who tailor an offense to their players and coaches who tailor players to their offense. Mike Shanahan and Bill Walsh were the latter. RB's were gonna run Mike's wide zone, no matter who they were. Steve Young was going to operate a WC offense. He could've run an air-coryell or an offense tailored around his running ability but he was great when he ran Mike's offense at a super high level.

Kyle will be the same way. He'll use Lance's running as a tool against the defense but largely he wants Trey to run his offense.

Nope; overall I don't think he has or will be operating some different offense as well. Those roll out throws I'm not so sure if I'd call them "off-script" but I don't know if you are talking about when he made a play off a scramble drill?

Yes, two different philosophies when tailoring an offense. I've seen our coach do both in one season when he was with the Redskins having RGIII and Kirk Cousins.

Personally; I don't think I have seen enough to say that Kyle will be the same way and enough to know what "his offense" with Trey is yet. But kudos to you if you have and already know all this

Originally posted by jonnydel:
No, those plays aren't less risky. The success rate of those throws is only like 35% league wide. You either need a speed guy, like Jerry Jeudy, Metcalf or a top tier WR who can win a bunch of different routes, like an Evans, Adams, etc. There's a reason you don't see Cooper Kupp running a bunch of fly routes. It also doesn't affect the defense when you just take shots. Fields took a # of shots at Ward on those throws Sunday and we didn't change the way we played defense, at all.

You run the risk of putting your team in 2nd and long and behind schedule or 3rd and long or 3rd down period to gain what? The LB's haven't been affected by that play. They don't have to now think about going and covering the deep 1/3 and the run.

Even if the catch rate is like 35% the pass interference rate is like 50/50 so that ups the play to successful 2/3 of the time. And those are either tds or huge gains.

It is significantly less risky than trey throwing 10 yards over the middle on his reads. All he has to do is throw to a spot and worry about where two guys are. The cornerback and the safety.

Over the middle he has to figure out where the lbs are the corners, linemen, how far each one has run. It's a literal minefield.

This is compounded way worse because of the zone running scheme. Basically most of our runs are off tackle. This incentives the linebackers to play deeper because it's more sideline to sideline.

Power up the middle draws them down to help plug holes. Zone running makes them sit deeper and makes it harder for lance to navigate the throw.

If you throw it up to ayuik or deebo and they know it's coming there going to win 90% of the time or more. They know it's coming and NFL corners rarely turn their head. the ball just has to be remotely close and even if it's underthrown they just fight through the corner and it's instant PI.

The thought was Jimmy was too inaccurate to throw 30 yard sideline passes to get.close enough to draw a pi or avoid an interception . Turns out Kyle just doesn't have any of those plays written in the playbook to deebo or ayuik there all to juice, kittle, or Jennings.

Ayuik and deebo must just be too fast to throw to deep.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by dj43:
If Lance cannot deal with the reality that a Super Bowl contender needs a quality backup behind the starter, he needs to develop thicker skin. Prior to JG redoing his contract, there was nothing but complaining about the lack of depth behind the "very inexperienced" Lance. Now we have what we need to assure a good run to the playoffs even if Lance is hurt. Time to set the excuses aside and recognize Lance will continue to make mistakes, and some may cost us games, but being on a good team with a quality backup should not excuse anything on his part. Garoppolo has been an Alex Smith presence to Lance. This is not a Rodgers/Farve deal where the QBs hated each other.

You forget about what Jimmy said when he thought someone would trade for him or that he wouldn't be on the team anymore? He said he wouldn't wish it on anyone (him and Lance situation). I don't think the picture you are trying to paint is really what it is IMO

Garoppolo was talking about what he felt like being told he was no longer wanted but he would have to stick around another year.

From all accounts, the relationship between Lance and JG has been very good.

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
No, those plays aren't less risky. The success rate of those throws is only like 35% league wide. You either need a speed guy, like Jerry Jeudy, Metcalf or a top tier WR who can win a bunch of different routes, like an Evans, Adams, etc. There's a reason you don't see Cooper Kupp running a bunch of fly routes. It also doesn't affect the defense when you just take shots. Fields took a # of shots at Ward on those throws Sunday and we didn't change the way we played defense, at all.

You run the risk of putting your team in 2nd and long and behind schedule or 3rd and long or 3rd down period to gain what? The LB's haven't been affected by that play. They don't have to now think about going and covering the deep 1/3 and the run.

Even if the catch rate is like 35% the pass interference rate is like 50/50 so that ups the play to successful 2/3 of the time. And those are either tds or huge gains.

It is significantly less risky than trey throwing 10 yards over the middle on his reads. All he has to do is throw to a spot and worry about where two guys are. The cornerback and the safety.

Over the middle he has to figure out where the lbs are the corners, linemen, how far each one has run. It's a literal minefield.

This is compounded way worse because of the zone running scheme. Basically most of our runs are off tackle. This incentives the linebackers to play deeper because it's more sideline to sideline.

Power up the middle draws them down to help plug holes. Zone running makes them sit deeper and makes it harder for lance to navigate the throw.

If you throw it up to ayuik or deebo and they know it's coming there going to win 90% of the time or more. They know it's coming and NFL corners rarely turn their head. the ball just has to be remotely close and even if it's underthrown they just fight through the corner and it's instant PI.

The thought was Jimmy was too inaccurate to throw 30 yard sideline passes to get.close enough to draw a pi or avoid an interception . Turns out Kyle just doesn't have any of those plays written in the playbook to deebo or ayuik there all to juice, kittle, or Jennings.

Ayuik and deebo must just be too fast to throw to deep.

I'd imagine that "success rate" includes outcomes such as Defensive PI. That's why jonny did not use the word "catch". It's also why you don't just see shot plays spammed even at lower levels of football.

Originally posted by grapesofrathman:

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
No, those plays aren't less risky. The success rate of those throws is only like 35% league wide. You either need a speed guy, like Jerry Jeudy, Metcalf or a top tier WR who can win a bunch of different routes, like an Evans, Adams, etc. There's a reason you don't see Cooper Kupp running a bunch of fly routes. It also doesn't affect the defense when you just take shots. Fields took a # of shots at Ward on those throws Sunday and we didn't change the way we played defense, at all.

You run the risk of putting your team in 2nd and long and behind schedule or 3rd and long or 3rd down period to gain what? The LB's haven't been affected by that play. They don't have to now think about going and covering the deep 1/3 and the run.

Even if the catch rate is like 35% the pass interference rate is like 50/50 so that ups the play to successful 2/3 of the time. And those are either tds or huge gains.

It is significantly less risky than trey throwing 10 yards over the middle on his reads. All he has to do is throw to a spot and worry about where two guys are. The cornerback and the safety.

Over the middle he has to figure out where the lbs are the corners, linemen, how far each one has run. It's a literal minefield.

This is compounded way worse because of the zone running scheme. Basically most of our runs are off tackle. This incentives the linebackers to play deeper because it's more sideline to sideline.

Power up the middle draws them down to help plug holes. Zone running makes them sit deeper and makes it harder for lance to navigate the throw.

If you throw it up to ayuik or deebo and they know it's coming there going to win 90% of the time or more. They know it's coming and NFL corners rarely turn their head. the ball just has to be remotely close and even if it's underthrown they just fight through the corner and it's instant PI.

The thought was Jimmy was too inaccurate to throw 30 yard sideline passes to get.close enough to draw a pi or avoid an interception . Turns out Kyle just doesn't have any of those plays written in the playbook to deebo or ayuik there all to juice, kittle, or Jennings.

Ayuik and deebo must just be too fast to throw to deep.

I'd imagine that "success rate" includes outcomes such as Defensive PI. That's why jonny did not use the word "catch". It's also why you don't just see shot plays spammed even at lower levels of football.

Egggsactly.

Again, I'll use the Bears as an example. Fields took 3 shots at Ward, all incomplete - didn't change how we played defense at all. The only time I can remember over the past 2 years any team doing that to us an us changing how we played defense was last year vs GB when Adams was abusing Lenoir. We've been a team that has scored around 28 ppg with Jimmy G not throwing the deep down the sideline throws a lot. That has a lot to do with staying on schedule, converting 3rd downs and keeping out of 2nd and 3rd and long all the time.

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
No, those plays aren't less risky. The success rate of those throws is only like 35% league wide. You either need a speed guy, like Jerry Jeudy, Metcalf or a top tier WR who can win a bunch of different routes, like an Evans, Adams, etc. There's a reason you don't see Cooper Kupp running a bunch of fly routes. It also doesn't affect the defense when you just take shots. Fields took a # of shots at Ward on those throws Sunday and we didn't change the way we played defense, at all.

You run the risk of putting your team in 2nd and long and behind schedule or 3rd and long or 3rd down period to gain what? The LB's haven't been affected by that play. They don't have to now think about going and covering the deep 1/3 and the run.

Even if the catch rate is like 35% the pass interference rate is like 50/50 so that ups the play to successful 2/3 of the time. And those are either tds or huge gains.

It is significantly less risky than trey throwing 10 yards over the middle on his reads. All he has to do is throw to a spot and worry about where two guys are. The cornerback and the safety.

Over the middle he has to figure out where the lbs are the corners, linemen, how far each one has run. It's a literal minefield.

This is compounded way worse because of the zone running scheme. Basically most of our runs are off tackle. This incentives the linebackers to play deeper because it's more sideline to sideline.

Power up the middle draws them down to help plug holes. Zone running makes them sit deeper and makes it harder for lance to navigate the throw.

If you throw it up to ayuik or deebo and they know it's coming there going to win 90% of the time or more. They know it's coming and NFL corners rarely turn their head. the ball just has to be remotely close and even if it's underthrown they just fight through the corner and it's instant PI.

The thought was Jimmy was too inaccurate to throw 30 yard sideline passes to get.close enough to draw a pi or avoid an interception . Turns out Kyle just doesn't have any of those plays written in the playbook to deebo or ayuik there all to juice, kittle, or Jennings.

Ayuik and deebo must just be too fast to throw to deep.

I can tell you, I have Kyle's complete playbook, there are very, very, very few plays with fly routes that are even in the progression. There's a 4 verts concept where all 4 streaks are #1 in the progression and a sail concept. I think that's it, if I remember right. There's plays where those aren't even alerts, they're simply not even in the progression because they're clearing routes. There's many others that they're only streaks if the defense is in press-man, single safety. VS any type of zone or bump and run or 2-man they're comeback/curl/stop routes and even against press-man they're alerts.

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
No, those plays aren't less risky. The success rate of those throws is only like 35% league wide. You either need a speed guy, like Jerry Jeudy, Metcalf or a top tier WR who can win a bunch of different routes, like an Evans, Adams, etc. There's a reason you don't see Cooper Kupp running a bunch of fly routes. It also doesn't affect the defense when you just take shots. Fields took a # of shots at Ward on those throws Sunday and we didn't change the way we played defense, at all.

You run the risk of putting your team in 2nd and long and behind schedule or 3rd and long or 3rd down period to gain what? The LB's haven't been affected by that play. They don't have to now think about going and covering the deep 1/3 and the run.

Even if the catch rate is like 35% the pass interference rate is like 50/50 so that ups the play to successful 2/3 of the time. And those are either tds or huge gains.

It is significantly less risky than trey throwing 10 yards over the middle on his reads. All he has to do is throw to a spot and worry about where two guys are. The cornerback and the safety.

Over the middle he has to figure out where the lbs are the corners, linemen, how far each one has run. It's a literal minefield.

This is compounded way worse because of the zone running scheme. Basically most of our runs are off tackle. This incentives the linebackers to play deeper because it's more sideline to sideline.

Power up the middle draws them down to help plug holes. Zone running makes them sit deeper and makes it harder for lance to navigate the throw.

If you throw it up to ayuik or deebo and they know it's coming there going to win 90% of the time or more. They know it's coming and NFL corners rarely turn their head. the ball just has to be remotely close and even if it's underthrown they just fight through the corner and it's instant PI.

The thought was Jimmy was too inaccurate to throw 30 yard sideline passes to get.close enough to draw a pi or avoid an interception . Turns out Kyle just doesn't have any of those plays written in the playbook to deebo or ayuik there all to juice, kittle, or Jennings.

Ayuik and deebo must just be too fast to throw to deep.

Deep fades are successful 2/3 of time. I am f**king dead.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
TBF, I'm pretty sure I was saying this all last season and was told I didn't know what the offense was about and that it was just tailored to Jimmy.

I've been saying it for 2 years now, this offense is about attacking the LB's and safeties over the middle, get them moving horizontally and retreating or attacking and hit them to tie it in to the run game.

The slot fade throw was a nice way to attack their press-man, but we saw Jimmy take the exact same shot to Aiyuk vs the exact same team last year.

By the time Lance is more of a finished product, and we STILL are running a Jimmy style offense, then I will be the first to say you are correct. But making that judgement after 3 starts (one of which was in the rain), is something I refuse to do.

Sunday looked similar to a Jimmy game. I just dont know if we can make conclusions about the offense after that game.

That's the problem, you assume it's a, "Jimmy style offense". What has ever made you think Kyle doesn't want to run Kyle's offense? He's talked about this in his pressers umpteen million times. The difference with Trey is variations and counters you can do off of the stuff you already do - like QB keepers on bootlegs, read-option looks on runs, things that make a defense account for the QB.....This is Kyle's words, not mine but you've always assumed I think the offense looks the way it does in defense of Jimmy.

I've said it a million times, Kyle attacks LB's. you can see the patterns in every game. He just does it a little different from week to week but he still attacks the middle of the field because that's what affects the run game.

It's a fair assumption up until now. Because most smart coaches would know a sideline deep pass is safer than a pass down the middle.

It's usually 1 on 1 and even if you throw it where nobody can catch it it's like 50/50 you get a pass interference call anyway.

The assumption has always been Jimmy didn't have the arm strength to get it to the sidelines deep consistently so that's why we did not run those plays.

It's turning out now Kyle just thinks he's a genius and prefers to throw the ball risky in the middle as per your statement above.

No, those plays aren't less risky. The success rate of those throws is only like 35% league wide. You either need a speed guy, like Jerry Jeudy, Metcalf or a top tier WR who can win a bunch of different routes, like an Evans, Adams, etc. There's a reason you don't see Cooper Kupp running a bunch of fly routes. It also doesn't affect the defense when you just take shots. Fields took a # of shots at Ward on those throws Sunday and we didn't change the way we played defense, at all.

You run the risk of putting your team in 2nd and long and behind schedule or 3rd and long or 3rd down period to gain what? The LB's haven't been affected by that play. They don't have to now think about going and covering the deep 1/3 and the run.

Less likely to be an interception in which the defense ends up with great field position as a result.

Originally posted by BangBang49er:

It was either Fitzpatrick or Carr. Gronk was on a radio show not long ago talking about how the Raiders were a team really interested then backed out with Jon Gruden citing Carr as a reason.

The Dolphins were recently docked draft picks for their involvement over Brady https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/dolphins-tampering-stephen-ross-draft-picks-tom-brady/v5ogmz4smlyjgcbmukswchiz

That's why Fitzpatrick thinks it was him because he was the Dolphins QB at the time. Both destinations fit with Brady not even wanting to go there.

Originally posted by BangBang49er:

You think Fitzpatrick can cash in on designing a shirt that says (front)"I'M THAT MOTHER ****ER" (back)"BRADY WAS TALKING ABOUT"?

Day 16 Capt of the clipboard