Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Until I see Jimmy tossing it deep with accuracy i expect the same results as previous seasons. Assuming he stays healthy himself.

I get it, everyone now is enamored with the deep ball. Kinda like the old "Chicks dig the long ball" baseball commercials.

I mean I like it too. It's exciting and it stresses a defense.

However, much like a home run you only get so many opportunities to even do it in a game and yeah you don't want to miss on it when you do.

Plus it has a *potential* down side.
Trey Lance let's say completes the pass he did to Danny Gray in the preseason and it's the same result. Their defense wasn't on the field very long and ours is right back on the field. Of course the seven points are nice.

Jimmy dinks and dunks and we get some run game mixed in and we still get seven while keeping their defense on the field and ours off of it.

It would be nice if his deep ball improves. But aside from that he just needs to do what he does as well as he can. We didn't win or lose, didn't lose a Super Bowl because of his deep ball accuracy or lack thereof. Yes he overthrew Sanders. But that was no more the sole cause of the loss than Tartt dropping the pick last year.

You're going to have to explain to me and Emmanuel Sanders how missing him late in the 4th quarter of a SB Deep and Wide open to take the lead back didn't cost the team anything.

I said deep ball and people think I'm talking Madden. I mean the threat of a deep ball I know you don't throw it deep 20x a game, but defenses need to respect it and Jimmy throws about 4 a year. They dont worry about him going deep, he ignores guys one on one with a 50/50 deep ball every time.

Aside that fact, when you get into championship football I don't care how amazing your team is. There will come a point in the game where you QB NEEDS to make a throw and often it can be a deep shot. Jimmy has never done that. I don't see why that would change now.

I hope he has a f**k it attitude and plays lights out with instinct and not being timid, but I have seen Jimmy not see the right read or not throw it accurately too often to expect magical improvement.

It was only a small sample but we saw a different Jimmy Sunday. He dropped a 40-yard dime on BA along the far sideline that was dropped. It was not an easy catch but one Aiyuk will make most of the time. He also put up a 50/50 ball to Gray in the end zone. The placement could have been a bit better but it did send the message he is willing to put one up there. Denver will have those on film and they will influence the safeties come Sunday.

Let's hope we see more of those.

I honestly believe, and none of us know, that yes Jimmy left on his own will do those things more often.

It's been said and I see Marc Adams has a reply in his mailbag that Jimmy in 2017 was different than Jimmy ever since.

Yes that's post ACL. But it's also pre knowing all of Kyle's offense.

Only he and Kyle can answer that but I think it has much more to do with what Kyle wants Jimmy to do within his offense than it does with what Jimmy is willing or unwilling to do or able or unable to do. Maybe even in his own head. "If I mess up this throw deep it will mess everything else up."

I mean regardless of it's mental because of the ACL or mental because of what he's supposed to do in the offense one consistent observation with Jimmy is he's not playing the same way he did when he first got here. Not as loose and easy and confidently. Given that the ACL was a one time fluke thing back in 2018 I would tend to believe that's not it.

This is false and I KNOW it. Want to know how? (1) Shanahan said (paraphrasing) you'd always prefer the QB to throw to the open deep guy than the short guy, but if it's completed and move the chains, what are you gonna complain to the QB about?
(2) We can SEE THE FILM OURSELVES and see open guys down field not thrown to.

Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.

Love is blind

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Until I see Jimmy tossing it deep with accuracy i expect the same results as previous seasons. Assuming he stays healthy himself.

I get it, everyone now is enamored with the deep ball. Kinda like the old "Chicks dig the long ball" baseball commercials.

I mean I like it too. It's exciting and it stresses a defense.

However, much like a home run you only get so many opportunities to even do it in a game and yeah you don't want to miss on it when you do.

Plus it has a *potential* down side.
Trey Lance let's say completes the pass he did to Danny Gray in the preseason and it's the same result. Their defense wasn't on the field very long and ours is right back on the field. Of course the seven points are nice.

Jimmy dinks and dunks and we get some run game mixed in and we still get seven while keeping their defense on the field and ours off of it.

It would be nice if his deep ball improves. But aside from that he just needs to do what he does as well as he can. We didn't win or lose, didn't lose a Super Bowl because of his deep ball accuracy or lack thereof. Yes he overthrew Sanders. But that was no more the sole cause of the loss than Tartt dropping the pick last year.

You're going to have to explain to me and Emmanuel Sanders how missing him late in the 4th quarter of a SB Deep and Wide open to take the lead back didn't cost the team anything.

I said deep ball and people think I'm talking Madden. I mean the threat of a deep ball I know you don't throw it deep 20x a game, but defenses need to respect it and Jimmy throws about 4 a year. They dont worry about him going deep, he ignores guys one on one with a 50/50 deep ball every time.

Aside that fact, when you get into championship football I don't care how amazing your team is. There will come a point in the game where you QB NEEDS to make a throw and often it can be a deep shot. Jimmy has never done that. I don't see why that would change now.

I hope he has a f**k it attitude and plays lights out with instinct and not being timid, but I have seen Jimmy not see the right read or not throw it accurately too often to expect magical improvement.

It was only a small sample but we saw a different Jimmy Sunday. He dropped a 40-yard dime on BA along the far sideline that was dropped. It was not an easy catch but one Aiyuk will make most of the time. He also put up a 50/50 ball to Gray in the end zone. The placement could have been a bit better but it did send the message he is willing to put one up there. Denver will have those on film and they will influence the safeties come Sunday.

Let's hope we see more of those.

I honestly believe, and none of us know, that yes Jimmy left on his own will do those things more often.

It's been said and I see Marc Adams has a reply in his mailbag that Jimmy in 2017 was different than Jimmy ever since.

Yes that's post ACL. But it's also pre knowing all of Kyle's offense.

Only he and Kyle can answer that but I think it has much more to do with what Kyle wants Jimmy to do within his offense than it does with what Jimmy is willing or unwilling to do or able or unable to do. Maybe even in his own head. "If I mess up this throw deep it will mess everything else up."

I mean regardless of it's mental because of the ACL or mental because of what he's supposed to do in the offense one consistent observation with Jimmy is he's not playing the same way he did when he first got here. Not as loose and easy and confidently. Given that the ACL was a one time fluke thing back in 2018 I would tend to believe that's not it.

I sad in this thread last Sunday if there was one positive is Jimmys arm looked strong and he was actually taking shots downfield. The more he does it the better he will get at it.

Is Kyle is making Jimmy not go deep? I dont know, id say it's somewhere in the middle between him and Jimmy. So many plays guys were wide open (Kittle in the SB for example) and Jimmy simply didnt even see it.

This is certainly a golden opportunity so lets hope he makes the most of it, but I am a cynical mofo.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Until I see Jimmy tossing it deep with accuracy i expect the same results as previous seasons. Assuming he stays healthy himself.

I get it, everyone now is enamored with the deep ball. Kinda like the old "Chicks dig the long ball" baseball commercials.

I mean I like it too. It's exciting and it stresses a defense.

However, much like a home run you only get so many opportunities to even do it in a game and yeah you don't want to miss on it when you do.

Plus it has a *potential* down side.
Trey Lance let's say completes the pass he did to Danny Gray in the preseason and it's the same result. Their defense wasn't on the field very long and ours is right back on the field. Of course the seven points are nice.

Jimmy dinks and dunks and we get some run game mixed in and we still get seven while keeping their defense on the field and ours off of it.

It would be nice if his deep ball improves. But aside from that he just needs to do what he does as well as he can. We didn't win or lose, didn't lose a Super Bowl because of his deep ball accuracy or lack thereof. Yes he overthrew Sanders. But that was no more the sole cause of the loss than Tartt dropping the pick last year.

You're going to have to explain to me and Emmanuel Sanders how missing him late in the 4th quarter of a SB Deep and Wide open to take the lead back didn't cost the team anything.

I said deep ball and people think I'm talking Madden. I mean the threat of a deep ball I know you don't throw it deep 20x a game, but defenses need to respect it and Jimmy throws about 4 a year. They dont worry about him going deep, he ignores guys one on one with a 50/50 deep ball every time.

Aside that fact, when you get into championship football I don't care how amazing your team is. There will come a point in the game where you QB NEEDS to make a throw and often it can be a deep shot. Jimmy has never done that. I don't see why that would change now.

I hope he has a f**k it attitude and plays lights out with instinct and not being timid, but I have seen Jimmy not see the right read or not throw it accurately too often to expect magical improvement.

It was only a small sample but we saw a different Jimmy Sunday. He dropped a 40-yard dime on BA along the far sideline that was dropped. It was not an easy catch but one Aiyuk will make most of the time. He also put up a 50/50 ball to Gray in the end zone. The placement could have been a bit better but it did send the message he is willing to put one up there. Denver will have those on film and they will influence the safeties come Sunday.

Let's hope we see more of those.

I honestly believe, and none of us know, that yes Jimmy left on his own will do those things more often.

It's been said and I see Marc Adams has a reply in his mailbag that Jimmy in 2017 was different than Jimmy ever since.

Yes that's post ACL. But it's also pre knowing all of Kyle's offense.

Only he and Kyle can answer that but I think it has much more to do with what Kyle wants Jimmy to do within his offense than it does with what Jimmy is willing or unwilling to do or able or unable to do. Maybe even in his own head. "If I mess up this throw deep it will mess everything else up."

I mean regardless of it's mental because of the ACL or mental because of what he's supposed to do in the offense one consistent observation with Jimmy is he's not playing the same way he did when he first got here. Not as loose and easy and confidently. Given that the ACL was a one time fluke thing back in 2018 I would tend to believe that's not it.

This is false and I KNOW it. Want to know how? (1) Shanahan said (paraphrasing) you'd always prefer the QB to throw to the open deep guy than the short guy, but if it's completed and move the chains, what are you gonna complain to the QB about?
(2) We can SEE THE FILM OURSELVES and see open guys down field not thrown to.

Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.

Alright, calm down there, buddy.
Here's some nuggets for you since people seem to think I'm not being honest about this. Many of the "deep" throws in Kyle's playbook are "alerts". They're triggered by certain conditions and ONLY by certain conditions. An alert is usually that you only look that way if there's a busted coverage.

FYI, these are all out of the 5-7 step drop portion of his playbook which is only half the passes. The rest are 3 step drop of play-action.


Here you see the corner routes are Alerts and the go route is a coverage adjustment route only against C2 zone


This is Kyle's version of Martz's Short post concept. The outside routes are Alerts and only verticals as coverage adjustments to run a vertical vs C2 zone



Even on a Go+Shade the Go is only an Alert



These are only a few examples but what you see in the VAST MAJORITY of our plays. If we're throwing the Alert, it's got to be triggered by the conditions established by KS himself or a busted coverage. On an Alert, even then the QB is to peak quick and if he doesn't like it move on but NEVER let it disrupt the timing of the primary progression.
For example, If you see press-man on an Z stream, you check to make sure the D didn't bust the late motion and if they didn't you move on to your progression. It'll be super fast.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Until I see Jimmy tossing it deep with accuracy i expect the same results as previous seasons. Assuming he stays healthy himself.

I get it, everyone now is enamored with the deep ball. Kinda like the old "Chicks dig the long ball" baseball commercials.

I mean I like it too. It's exciting and it stresses a defense.

However, much like a home run you only get so many opportunities to even do it in a game and yeah you don't want to miss on it when you do.

Plus it has a *potential* down side.
Trey Lance let's say completes the pass he did to Danny Gray in the preseason and it's the same result. Their defense wasn't on the field very long and ours is right back on the field. Of course the seven points are nice.

Jimmy dinks and dunks and we get some run game mixed in and we still get seven while keeping their defense on the field and ours off of it.

It would be nice if his deep ball improves. But aside from that he just needs to do what he does as well as he can. We didn't win or lose, didn't lose a Super Bowl because of his deep ball accuracy or lack thereof. Yes he overthrew Sanders. But that was no more the sole cause of the loss than Tartt dropping the pick last year.

You're going to have to explain to me and Emmanuel Sanders how missing him late in the 4th quarter of a SB Deep and Wide open to take the lead back didn't cost the team anything.

I said deep ball and people think I'm talking Madden. I mean the threat of a deep ball I know you don't throw it deep 20x a game, but defenses need to respect it and Jimmy throws about 4 a year. They dont worry about him going deep, he ignores guys one on one with a 50/50 deep ball every time.

Aside that fact, when you get into championship football I don't care how amazing your team is. There will come a point in the game where you QB NEEDS to make a throw and often it can be a deep shot. Jimmy has never done that. I don't see why that would change now.

I hope he has a f**k it attitude and plays lights out with instinct and not being timid, but I have seen Jimmy not see the right read or not throw it accurately too often to expect magical improvement.

It was only a small sample but we saw a different Jimmy Sunday. He dropped a 40-yard dime on BA along the far sideline that was dropped. It was not an easy catch but one Aiyuk will make most of the time. He also put up a 50/50 ball to Gray in the end zone. The placement could have been a bit better but it did send the message he is willing to put one up there. Denver will have those on film and they will influence the safeties come Sunday.

Let's hope we see more of those.

I honestly believe, and none of us know, that yes Jimmy left on his own will do those things more often.

It's been said and I see Marc Adams has a reply in his mailbag that Jimmy in 2017 was different than Jimmy ever since.

Yes that's post ACL. But it's also pre knowing all of Kyle's offense.

Only he and Kyle can answer that but I think it has much more to do with what Kyle wants Jimmy to do within his offense than it does with what Jimmy is willing or unwilling to do or able or unable to do. Maybe even in his own head. "If I mess up this throw deep it will mess everything else up."

I mean regardless of it's mental because of the ACL or mental because of what he's supposed to do in the offense one consistent observation with Jimmy is he's not playing the same way he did when he first got here. Not as loose and easy and confidently. Given that the ACL was a one time fluke thing back in 2018 I would tend to believe that's not it.

This is false and I KNOW it. Want to know how? (1) Shanahan said (paraphrasing) you'd always prefer the QB to throw to the open deep guy than the short guy, but if it's completed and move the chains, what are you gonna complain to the QB about?
(2) We can SEE THE FILM OURSELVES and see open guys down field not thrown to.

Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.

Alright, calm down there, buddy.
Here's some nuggets for you since people seem to think I'm not being honest about this. Many of the "deep" throws in Kyle's playbook are "alerts". They're triggered by certain conditions and ONLY by certain conditions. An alert is usually that you only look that way if there's a busted coverage.

FYI, these are all out of the 5-7 step drop portion of his playbook which is only half the passes. The rest are 3 step drop of play-action.


Here you see the corner routes are Alerts and the go route is a coverage adjustment route only against C2 zone


This is Kyle's version of Martz's Short post concept. The outside routes are Alerts and only verticals as coverage adjustments to run a vertical vs C2 zone



Even on a Go+Shade the Go is only an Alert



These are only a few examples but what you see in the VAST MAJORITY of our plays. If we're throwing the Alert, it's got to be triggered by the conditions established by KS himself or a busted coverage. On an Alert, even then the QB is to peak quick and if he doesn't like it move on but NEVER let it disrupt the timing of the primary progression.
For example, If you see press-man on an Z stream, you check to make sure the D didn't bust the late motion and if they didn't you move on to your progression. It'll be super fast.

Nice post. I'm really excited to hear 5's brilliant response.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Until I see Jimmy tossing it deep with accuracy i expect the same results as previous seasons. Assuming he stays healthy himself.

I get it, everyone now is enamored with the deep ball. Kinda like the old "Chicks dig the long ball" baseball commercials.

I mean I like it too. It's exciting and it stresses a defense.

However, much like a home run you only get so many opportunities to even do it in a game and yeah you don't want to miss on it when you do.

Plus it has a *potential* down side.
Trey Lance let's say completes the pass he did to Danny Gray in the preseason and it's the same result. Their defense wasn't on the field very long and ours is right back on the field. Of course the seven points are nice.

Jimmy dinks and dunks and we get some run game mixed in and we still get seven while keeping their defense on the field and ours off of it.

It would be nice if his deep ball improves. But aside from that he just needs to do what he does as well as he can. We didn't win or lose, didn't lose a Super Bowl because of his deep ball accuracy or lack thereof. Yes he overthrew Sanders. But that was no more the sole cause of the loss than Tartt dropping the pick last year.

You're going to have to explain to me and Emmanuel Sanders how missing him late in the 4th quarter of a SB Deep and Wide open to take the lead back didn't cost the team anything.

I said deep ball and people think I'm talking Madden. I mean the threat of a deep ball I know you don't throw it deep 20x a game, but defenses need to respect it and Jimmy throws about 4 a year. They dont worry about him going deep, he ignores guys one on one with a 50/50 deep ball every time.

Aside that fact, when you get into championship football I don't care how amazing your team is. There will come a point in the game where you QB NEEDS to make a throw and often it can be a deep shot. Jimmy has never done that. I don't see why that would change now.

I hope he has a f**k it attitude and plays lights out with instinct and not being timid, but I have seen Jimmy not see the right read or not throw it accurately too often to expect magical improvement.

It was only a small sample but we saw a different Jimmy Sunday. He dropped a 40-yard dime on BA along the far sideline that was dropped. It was not an easy catch but one Aiyuk will make most of the time. He also put up a 50/50 ball to Gray in the end zone. The placement could have been a bit better but it did send the message he is willing to put one up there. Denver will have those on film and they will influence the safeties come Sunday.

Let's hope we see more of those.

I honestly believe, and none of us know, that yes Jimmy left on his own will do those things more often.

It's been said and I see Marc Adams has a reply in his mailbag that Jimmy in 2017 was different than Jimmy ever since.

Yes that's post ACL. But it's also pre knowing all of Kyle's offense.

Only he and Kyle can answer that but I think it has much more to do with what Kyle wants Jimmy to do within his offense than it does with what Jimmy is willing or unwilling to do or able or unable to do. Maybe even in his own head. "If I mess up this throw deep it will mess everything else up."

I mean regardless of it's mental because of the ACL or mental because of what he's supposed to do in the offense one consistent observation with Jimmy is he's not playing the same way he did when he first got here. Not as loose and easy and confidently. Given that the ACL was a one time fluke thing back in 2018 I would tend to believe that's not it.

This is false and I KNOW it. Want to know how? (1) Shanahan said (paraphrasing) you'd always prefer the QB to throw to the open deep guy than the short guy, but if it's completed and move the chains, what are you gonna complain to the QB about?
(2) We can SEE THE FILM OURSELVES and see open guys down field not thrown to.

Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.

Alright, calm down there, buddy.
Here's some nuggets for you since people seem to think I'm not being honest about this. Many of the "deep" throws in Kyle's playbook are "alerts". They're triggered by certain conditions and ONLY by certain conditions. An alert is usually that you only look that way if there's a busted coverage.

FYI, these are all out of the 5-7 step drop portion of his playbook which is only half the passes. The rest are 3 step drop of play-action.


Here you see the corner routes are Alerts and the go route is a coverage adjustment route only against C2 zone


This is Kyle's version of Martz's Short post concept. The outside routes are Alerts and only verticals as coverage adjustments to run a vertical vs C2 zone



Even on a Go+Shade the Go is only an Alert



These are only a few examples but what you see in the VAST MAJORITY of our plays. If we're throwing the Alert, it's got to be triggered by the conditions established by KS himself or a busted coverage. On an Alert, even then the QB is to peak quick and if he doesn't like it move on but NEVER let it disrupt the timing of the primary progression.
For example, If you see press-man on an Z stream, you check to make sure the D didn't bust the late motion and if they didn't you move on to your progression. It'll be super fast.

Golden playing Madden and JD teaching a masterclass.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Until I see Jimmy tossing it deep with accuracy i expect the same results as previous seasons. Assuming he stays healthy himself.

I get it, everyone now is enamored with the deep ball. Kinda like the old "Chicks dig the long ball" baseball commercials.

I mean I like it too. It's exciting and it stresses a defense.

However, much like a home run you only get so many opportunities to even do it in a game and yeah you don't want to miss on it when you do.

Plus it has a *potential* down side.
Trey Lance let's say completes the pass he did to Danny Gray in the preseason and it's the same result. Their defense wasn't on the field very long and ours is right back on the field. Of course the seven points are nice.

Jimmy dinks and dunks and we get some run game mixed in and we still get seven while keeping their defense on the field and ours off of it.

It would be nice if his deep ball improves. But aside from that he just needs to do what he does as well as he can. We didn't win or lose, didn't lose a Super Bowl because of his deep ball accuracy or lack thereof. Yes he overthrew Sanders. But that was no more the sole cause of the loss than Tartt dropping the pick last year.

You're going to have to explain to me and Emmanuel Sanders how missing him late in the 4th quarter of a SB Deep and Wide open to take the lead back didn't cost the team anything.

I said deep ball and people think I'm talking Madden. I mean the threat of a deep ball I know you don't throw it deep 20x a game, but defenses need to respect it and Jimmy throws about 4 a year. They dont worry about him going deep, he ignores guys one on one with a 50/50 deep ball every time.

Aside that fact, when you get into championship football I don't care how amazing your team is. There will come a point in the game where you QB NEEDS to make a throw and often it can be a deep shot. Jimmy has never done that. I don't see why that would change now.

I hope he has a f**k it attitude and plays lights out with instinct and not being timid, but I have seen Jimmy not see the right read or not throw it accurately too often to expect magical improvement.

It was only a small sample but we saw a different Jimmy Sunday. He dropped a 40-yard dime on BA along the far sideline that was dropped. It was not an easy catch but one Aiyuk will make most of the time. He also put up a 50/50 ball to Gray in the end zone. The placement could have been a bit better but it did send the message he is willing to put one up there. Denver will have those on film and they will influence the safeties come Sunday.

Let's hope we see more of those.

I honestly believe, and none of us know, that yes Jimmy left on his own will do those things more often.

It's been said and I see Marc Adams has a reply in his mailbag that Jimmy in 2017 was different than Jimmy ever since.

Yes that's post ACL. But it's also pre knowing all of Kyle's offense.

Only he and Kyle can answer that but I think it has much more to do with what Kyle wants Jimmy to do within his offense than it does with what Jimmy is willing or unwilling to do or able or unable to do. Maybe even in his own head. "If I mess up this throw deep it will mess everything else up."

I mean regardless of it's mental because of the ACL or mental because of what he's supposed to do in the offense one consistent observation with Jimmy is he's not playing the same way he did when he first got here. Not as loose and easy and confidently. Given that the ACL was a one time fluke thing back in 2018 I would tend to believe that's not it.

This is false and I KNOW it. Want to know how? (1) Shanahan said (paraphrasing) you'd always prefer the QB to throw to the open deep guy than the short guy, but if it's completed and move the chains, what are you gonna complain to the QB about?
(2) We can SEE THE FILM OURSELVES and see open guys down field not thrown to.

Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.

Alright, calm down there, buddy.
Here's some nuggets for you since people seem to think I'm not being honest about this. Many of the "deep" throws in Kyle's playbook are "alerts". They're triggered by certain conditions and ONLY by certain conditions. An alert is usually that you only look that way if there's a busted coverage.

FYI, these are all out of the 5-7 step drop portion of his playbook which is only half the passes. The rest are 3 step drop of play-action.


Here you see the corner routes are Alerts and the go route is a coverage adjustment route only against C2 zone


This is Kyle's version of Martz's Short post concept. The outside routes are Alerts and only verticals as coverage adjustments to run a vertical vs C2 zone



Even on a Go+Shade the Go is only an Alert



These are only a few examples but what you see in the VAST MAJORITY of our plays. If we're throwing the Alert, it's got to be triggered by the conditions established by KS himself or a busted coverage. On an Alert, even then the QB is to peak quick and if he doesn't like it move on but NEVER let it disrupt the timing of the primary progression.
For example, If you see press-man on an Z stream, you check to make sure the D didn't bust the late motion and if they didn't you move on to your progression. It'll be super fast.

Golden playing Madden and JD teaching a masterclass.

Unfortunately, Lance's injury is going to keep this ridiculous argument going about how good or bad Jimmy is for another year. Here we all were thinking that it was over and it's back with a vengeance.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Unfortunately, Lance's injury is going to keep this ridiculous argument going about how good or bad Jimmy is for another year. Here we all were thinking that it was over and it's back with a vengeance.

Just try and tune out all the noise and the spin. I saw a QB ask for the ball as soon as he saw TL go down. No time to be in your emotions. That's what being a professional is. Get out there and do your job. He was ready, throws were out on time, dimes were dropped, points were scored and we won. On to the next.

I couldn't care less about Jimmy completing deep passes. I just want our offense to attack other parts of the field like he did last Sunday. I thought he played very well and I'm very happy we were able to keep him.

But I don't want to hear another poster who was dead silent about the unwarranted cruel comments about Trey all of a sudden become the fairness police, crying about Jimmy hatred, when those negative comments are strictly about football.

It's so obvious that there's still a bunch a tribalism in both camps. I'm tired of it to be honest.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Until I see Jimmy tossing it deep with accuracy i expect the same results as previous seasons. Assuming he stays healthy himself.

I get it, everyone now is enamored with the deep ball. Kinda like the old "Chicks dig the long ball" baseball commercials.

I mean I like it too. It's exciting and it stresses a defense.

However, much like a home run you only get so many opportunities to even do it in a game and yeah you don't want to miss on it when you do.

Plus it has a *potential* down side.
Trey Lance let's say completes the pass he did to Danny Gray in the preseason and it's the same result. Their defense wasn't on the field very long and ours is right back on the field. Of course the seven points are nice.

Jimmy dinks and dunks and we get some run game mixed in and we still get seven while keeping their defense on the field and ours off of it.

It would be nice if his deep ball improves. But aside from that he just needs to do what he does as well as he can. We didn't win or lose, didn't lose a Super Bowl because of his deep ball accuracy or lack thereof. Yes he overthrew Sanders. But that was no more the sole cause of the loss than Tartt dropping the pick last year.

You're going to have to explain to me and Emmanuel Sanders how missing him late in the 4th quarter of a SB Deep and Wide open to take the lead back didn't cost the team anything.

I said deep ball and people think I'm talking Madden. I mean the threat of a deep ball I know you don't throw it deep 20x a game, but defenses need to respect it and Jimmy throws about 4 a year. They dont worry about him going deep, he ignores guys one on one with a 50/50 deep ball every time.

Aside that fact, when you get into championship football I don't care how amazing your team is. There will come a point in the game where you QB NEEDS to make a throw and often it can be a deep shot. Jimmy has never done that. I don't see why that would change now.

I hope he has a f**k it attitude and plays lights out with instinct and not being timid, but I have seen Jimmy not see the right read or not throw it accurately too often to expect magical improvement.

It was only a small sample but we saw a different Jimmy Sunday. He dropped a 40-yard dime on BA along the far sideline that was dropped. It was not an easy catch but one Aiyuk will make most of the time. He also put up a 50/50 ball to Gray in the end zone. The placement could have been a bit better but it did send the message he is willing to put one up there. Denver will have those on film and they will influence the safeties come Sunday.

Let's hope we see more of those.

I honestly believe, and none of us know, that yes Jimmy left on his own will do those things more often.

It's been said and I see Marc Adams has a reply in his mailbag that Jimmy in 2017 was different than Jimmy ever since.

Yes that's post ACL. But it's also pre knowing all of Kyle's offense.

Only he and Kyle can answer that but I think it has much more to do with what Kyle wants Jimmy to do within his offense than it does with what Jimmy is willing or unwilling to do or able or unable to do. Maybe even in his own head. "If I mess up this throw deep it will mess everything else up."

I mean regardless of it's mental because of the ACL or mental because of what he's supposed to do in the offense one consistent observation with Jimmy is he's not playing the same way he did when he first got here. Not as loose and easy and confidently. Given that the ACL was a one time fluke thing back in 2018 I would tend to believe that's not it.

This is false and I KNOW it. Want to know how? (1) Shanahan said (paraphrasing) you'd always prefer the QB to throw to the open deep guy than the short guy, but if it's completed and move the chains, what are you gonna complain to the QB about?
(2) We can SEE THE FILM OURSELVES and see open guys down field not thrown to.

Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.

Alright, calm down there, buddy.
Here's some nuggets for you since people seem to think I'm not being honest about this. Many of the "deep" throws in Kyle's playbook are "alerts". They're triggered by certain conditions and ONLY by certain conditions. An alert is usually that you only look that way if there's a busted coverage.

FYI, these are all out of the 5-7 step drop portion of his playbook which is only half the passes. The rest are 3 step drop of play-action.


Here you see the corner routes are Alerts and the go route is a coverage adjustment route only against C2 zone


This is Kyle's version of Martz's Short post concept. The outside routes are Alerts and only verticals as coverage adjustments to run a vertical vs C2 zone



Even on a Go+Shade the Go is only an Alert



These are only a few examples but what you see in the VAST MAJORITY of our plays. If we're throwing the Alert, it's got to be triggered by the conditions established by KS himself or a busted coverage. On an Alert, even then the QB is to peak quick and if he doesn't like it move on but NEVER let it disrupt the timing of the primary progression.
For example, If you see press-man on an Z stream, you check to make sure the D didn't bust the late motion and if they didn't you move on to your progression. It'll be super fast.

Phenomenal post and super insightful. Makes total sense as we never attack deep in most games. I'm disappointed to see this but not surprising.

VICTORY AFTER VICTORY

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Unfortunately, Lance's injury is going to keep this ridiculous argument going about how good or bad Jimmy is for another year. Here we all were thinking that it was over and it's back with a vengeance.

Just try and tune out all the noise and the spin. I saw a QB ask for the ball as soon as he saw TL go down. No time to be in your emotions. That's what being a professional is. Get out there and do your job. He was ready, throws were out on time, dimes were dropped, points were scored and we won. On to the next.

Yup. Just go have fun. Jimmy likened the "game plan" to 2017 where he could just play. I'd love for he and Kyle to just go YOLO and go full spread with Jimmy contributing to 75% of the game plan with Kyle drawing up the explosives off Jimmy's plays and a nice balance of IZ and OZ. Very few if any, blind PA passes until our OL proves they can handle that in PP first.

Spread them out, let Jimmy pick his weapon and just play. If the PP holds up, game on!

Stop with this Yolo thing seriously.^^
Jimmy is a professional and he will never put himself before the team.
But most importantly, Kyle micromanages everything. Jimmy is just there to execute his plan and that´s it.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I couldn't care less about Jimmy completing deep passes. I just want our offense to attack other parts of the field like he did last Sunday. I thought he played very well and I'm very happy we were able to keep him.

But I don't want to hear another poster who was dead silent about the unwarranted cruel comments about Trey all of a sudden become the fairness police, crying about Jimmy hatred, when those negative comments are strictly about football.

It's so obvious that there's still a bunch a tribalism in both camps. I'm tired of it to be honest.

Guy posted one video from JTO with a mild criticism of one play and he's a hater. It's already happenning.

Originally posted by pdc20:
Stop with this Yolo thing seriously.^^
Jimmy is a professional and he will never put himself before the team.
But most importantly, Kyle micromanages everything. Jimmy is just there to execute his plan and that´s it.

Yet the plan in 2019 actually did attack all over the field. He attacked with Ryan. He was attacking with Trey.