Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I couldn't care less about Jimmy completing deep passes. I just want our offense to attack other parts of the field like he did last Sunday. I thought he played very well and I'm very happy we were able to keep him.

But I don't want to hear another poster who was dead silent about the unwarranted cruel comments about Trey all of a sudden become the fairness police, crying about Jimmy hatred, when those negative comments are strictly about football.

It's so obvious that there's still a bunch a tribalism in both camps. I'm tired of it to be honest.

Guy posted one video from JTO with a mild criticism of one play and he's a hater. It's already happenning.

That guy has a history in the Jimmy thread. Similar to SD49er is the Lance thread. They both stick to football but it's constant non stop bashing, which comes across as haterish and non productive. It would be different if either of them would occasionally say somehing positive but nope, constant negative BS. And like WB stayed above, many are dead silent when it comes to one but not he other.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Golden playing Madden and JD teaching a masterclass.

we all know the HC adjusts to his QBs and not the QB adjusting to the HC

the plays are to help with jimmy's weakness

LOL, that playbook is from spring of 2018. Which, BTW, is VERY similar to Kyle's 2015 Falcons playbook. I guess Matt Ryan had the same, "weaknesses" that Kyle had to "help" with.

It's also pretty similar to Mike Shanahans' late 90's playbooks with John Elway, save for adding some more stuff like from the Martz offense and some other wrinkles here and there.
I guess Elway had the same weaknesses as Jimmy.....

If you've followed any of Shanahan's(his or his dads) work you know that they're both system guys. They expect the players to run their system and adjust to them. There is the element of trying to utilize players' strengths but for the most part the guys are expected to run the system. If Mike had Barry Sanders, he still would've had him run the wide-zone based scheme. Same if he had Frank Gore. It's why guys like Mark Schlereth who played in Mike's system in Denver really like Jimmy G because they know a lot of the passing concepts and run scheme from running it for years with Mike.

Originally posted by Niners99:
lol all it took was an offseason of paying attention to a different QB for people to completely forget that we were running Jimmy out of town for being mediocre and unreliable in January.

Only in January? LOL

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Golden playing Madden and JD teaching a masterclass.

we all know the HC adjusts to his QBs and not the QB adjusting to the HC

the plays are to help with jimmy's weakness

LOL, that playbook is from spring of 2018. Which, BTW, is VERY similar to Kyle's 2015 Falcons playbook. I guess Matt Ryan had the same, "weaknesses" that Kyle had to "help" with.

It's also pretty similar to Mike Shanahans' late 90's playbooks with John Elway, save for adding some more stuff like from the Martz offense and some other wrinkles here and there.
I guess Elway had the same weaknesses as Jimmy.....

If you've followed any of Shanahan's(his or his dads) work you know that they're both system guys. They expect the players to run their system and adjust to them. There is the element of trying to utilize players' strengths but for the most part the guys are expected to run the system. If Mike had Barry Sanders, he still would've had him run the wide-zone based scheme. Same if he had Frank Gore. It's why guys like Mark Schlereth who played in Mike's system in Denver really like Jimmy G because they know a lot of the passing concepts and run scheme from running it for years with Mike.

It was a good breakdown and demo jonny. Thanks.

But unfortunately it's common not just on here but all over the internet that most people want to try to prove and demonstrate how "right" they are rather than stop and acknowledge that someone else may know something that they don't or otherwise have a point.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
That guy has a history in the Jimmy thread. Similar to SD49er is the Lance thread. They both stick to football but it's constant non stop bashing, which comes across as haterish and non productive. It would be different if either of them would occasionally say somehing positive but nope, constant negative BS. And like WB stayed above, many are dead silent when it comes to one but not he other.

Did he ever say Jimmy is the worst decision this team ever made?

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Alright, calm down there, buddy.
Here's some nuggets for you since people seem to think I'm not being honest about this. Many of the "deep" throws in Kyle's playbook are "alerts". They're triggered by certain conditions and ONLY by certain conditions. An alert is usually that you only look that way if there's a busted coverage.

FYI, these are all out of the 5-7 step drop portion of his playbook which is only half the passes. The rest are 3 step drop of play-action.


Here you see the corner routes are Alerts and the go route is a coverage adjustment route only against C2 zone


This is Kyle's version of Martz's Short post concept. The outside routes are Alerts and only verticals as coverage adjustments to run a vertical vs C2 zone



Even on a Go+Shade the Go is only an Alert



These are only a few examples but what you see in the VAST MAJORITY of our plays. If we're throwing the Alert, it's got to be triggered by the conditions established by KS himself or a busted coverage. On an Alert, even then the QB is to peak quick and if he doesn't like it move on but NEVER let it disrupt the timing of the primary progression.
For example, If you see press-man on an Z stream, you check to make sure the D didn't bust the late motion and if they didn't you move on to your progression. It'll be super fast.

Thank you for this breakdown. It is very helpful.

IF the deep ball is only an ALERT, then it's not Grappy's fault that he hardly looks that way .. The guy is just trying to get rid of the ball as fast as possible.

the problem I have w/our pass plays especially on an obvious passing situation is that we don't drop back DEEP enough that will allow the deeper route to develop.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Golden playing Madden and JD teaching a masterclass.

we all know the HC adjusts to his QBs and not the QB adjusting to the HC

the plays are to help with jimmy's weakness

LOL, that playbook is from spring of 2018. Which, BTW, is VERY similar to Kyle's 2015 Falcons playbook. I guess Matt Ryan had the same, "weaknesses" that Kyle had to "help" with.

It's also pretty similar to Mike Shanahans' late 90's playbooks with John Elway, save for adding some more stuff like from the Martz offense and some other wrinkles here and there.
I guess Elway had the same weaknesses as Jimmy.....

If you've followed any of Shanahan's(his or his dads) work you know that they're both system guys. They expect the players to run their system and adjust to them. There is the element of trying to utilize players' strengths but for the most part the guys are expected to run the system. If Mike had Barry Sanders, he still would've had him run the wide-zone based scheme. Same if he had Frank Gore. It's why guys like Mark Schlereth who played in Mike's system in Denver really like Jimmy G because they know a lot of the passing concepts and run scheme from running it for years with Mike.

I didn't say these exact plays, but Kyle is not going to try to fit a square peg where it doesn't fit.

The game plans and plays for Trey and jimmy are night and day. Kyle said he scrapped the entire gameplan

nice try to down play Ryan and Elway tho

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
That guy has a history in the Jimmy thread. Similar to SD49er is the Lance thread. They both stick to football but it's constant non stop bashing, which comes across as haterish and non productive. It would be different if either of them would occasionally say somehing positive but nope, constant negative BS. And like WB stayed above, many are dead silent when it comes to one but not he other.

Did he ever say Jimmy is the worst decision this team ever made?

Kyle Williams takes offense to this

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
That guy has a history in the Jimmy thread. Similar to SD49er is the Lance thread. They both stick to football but it's constant non stop bashing, which comes across as haterish and non productive. It would be different if either of them would occasionally say somehing positive but nope, constant negative BS. And like WB stayed above, many are dead silent when it comes to one but not he other.

Did he ever say Jimmy is the worst decision this team ever made?

In one way or the other daily. He's always whining about Jimmy every day for years. Lol the negativity he and others have displayed for a long time is nothing compared to a couple haters in the Trey thread. Well I take that back. It's the exact same thing yet it's been every day here. Trey is pretty new

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I couldn't care less about Jimmy completing deep passes. I just want our offense to attack other parts of the field like he did last Sunday. I thought he played very well and I'm very happy we were able to keep him.

But I don't want to hear another poster who was dead silent about the unwarranted cruel comments about Trey all of a sudden become the fairness police, crying about Jimmy hatred, when those negative comments are strictly about football.

It's so obvious that there's still a bunch a tribalism in both camps. I'm tired of it to be honest.

Guy posted one video from JTO with a mild criticism of one play and he's a hater. It's already happenning.

That guy has a history in the Jimmy thread. Similar to SD49er is the Lance thread. They both stick to football but it's constant non stop bashing, which comes across as haterish and non productive. It would be different if either of them would occasionally say somehing positive but nope, constant negative BS. And like WB stayed above, many are dead silent when it comes to one but not he other.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Did he ever say Jimmy is the worst decision this team ever made?

I wouldn't doubt it based on his posting history in here lol

my point is both can come across as trollish in each respective thread. I'm not here to argue which turd smells worse.(not calling them turds just a figure of speech)

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by OhioNiner:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Until I see Jimmy tossing it deep with accuracy i expect the same results as previous seasons. Assuming he stays healthy himself.

I get it, everyone now is enamored with the deep ball. Kinda like the old "Chicks dig the long ball" baseball commercials.

I mean I like it too. It's exciting and it stresses a defense.

However, much like a home run you only get so many opportunities to even do it in a game and yeah you don't want to miss on it when you do.

Plus it has a *potential* down side.
Trey Lance let's say completes the pass he did to Danny Gray in the preseason and it's the same result. Their defense wasn't on the field very long and ours is right back on the field. Of course the seven points are nice.

Jimmy dinks and dunks and we get some run game mixed in and we still get seven while keeping their defense on the field and ours off of it.

It would be nice if his deep ball improves. But aside from that he just needs to do what he does as well as he can. We didn't win or lose, didn't lose a Super Bowl because of his deep ball accuracy or lack thereof. Yes he overthrew Sanders. But that was no more the sole cause of the loss than Tartt dropping the pick last year.

You're going to have to explain to me and Emmanuel Sanders how missing him late in the 4th quarter of a SB Deep and Wide open to take the lead back didn't cost the team anything.

I said deep ball and people think I'm talking Madden. I mean the threat of a deep ball I know you don't throw it deep 20x a game, but defenses need to respect it and Jimmy throws about 4 a year. They dont worry about him going deep, he ignores guys one on one with a 50/50 deep ball every time.

Aside that fact, when you get into championship football I don't care how amazing your team is. There will come a point in the game where you QB NEEDS to make a throw and often it can be a deep shot. Jimmy has never done that. I don't see why that would change now.

I hope he has a f**k it attitude and plays lights out with instinct and not being timid, but I have seen Jimmy not see the right read or not throw it accurately too often to expect magical improvement.

It was only a small sample but we saw a different Jimmy Sunday. He dropped a 40-yard dime on BA along the far sideline that was dropped. It was not an easy catch but one Aiyuk will make most of the time. He also put up a 50/50 ball to Gray in the end zone. The placement could have been a bit better but it did send the message he is willing to put one up there. Denver will have those on film and they will influence the safeties come Sunday.

Let's hope we see more of those.

I honestly believe, and none of us know, that yes Jimmy left on his own will do those things more often.

It's been said and I see Marc Adams has a reply in his mailbag that Jimmy in 2017 was different than Jimmy ever since.

Yes that's post ACL. But it's also pre knowing all of Kyle's offense.

Only he and Kyle can answer that but I think it has much more to do with what Kyle wants Jimmy to do within his offense than it does with what Jimmy is willing or unwilling to do or able or unable to do. Maybe even in his own head. "If I mess up this throw deep it will mess everything else up."

I mean regardless of it's mental because of the ACL or mental because of what he's supposed to do in the offense one consistent observation with Jimmy is he's not playing the same way he did when he first got here. Not as loose and easy and confidently. Given that the ACL was a one time fluke thing back in 2018 I would tend to believe that's not it.

This is false and I KNOW it. Want to know how? (1) Shanahan said (paraphrasing) you'd always prefer the QB to throw to the open deep guy than the short guy, but if it's completed and move the chains, what are you gonna complain to the QB about?
(2) We can SEE THE FILM OURSELVES and see open guys down field not thrown to.

Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.

Alright, calm down there, buddy.
Here's some nuggets for you since people seem to think I'm not being honest about this. Many of the "deep" throws in Kyle's playbook are "alerts". They're triggered by certain conditions and ONLY by certain conditions. An alert is usually that you only look that way if there's a busted coverage.

FYI, these are all out of the 5-7 step drop portion of his playbook which is only half the passes. The rest are 3 step drop of play-action.


Here you see the corner routes are Alerts and the go route is a coverage adjustment route only against C2 zone


This is Kyle's version of Martz's Short post concept. The outside routes are Alerts and only verticals as coverage adjustments to run a vertical vs C2 zone



Even on a Go+Shade the Go is only an Alert



These are only a few examples but what you see in the VAST MAJORITY of our plays. If we're throwing the Alert, it's got to be triggered by the conditions established by KS himself or a busted coverage. On an Alert, even then the QB is to peak quick and if he doesn't like it move on but NEVER let it disrupt the timing of the primary progression.
For example, If you see press-man on an Z stream, you check to make sure the D didn't bust the late motion and if they didn't you move on to your progression. It'll be super fast.

Golden playing Madden and JD teaching a masterclass.

Hmmmmm. pages 31, 33, 38, and 40 out of a 61 page pdf is a helluva lot of skipping around, cropping, and highlighting.

Not sure how that proves anything about the VAST MAJORITY of our plays.

But I know that confusion like this convinces the masses here,....lol.

p.s.,....virtually no one here hates Jimmy G,....nor ever has.

What some of us do hate is stretching the truth with no limits like a # of popular posters here love to do.

Originally posted by random49er:
p.s.,....virtually no one here hates Jimmy G,....nor ever has.

What some of us do hate is stretching the truth with no limits like a # of popular posters here love to do.

Show us the last time you said anything positive about Jimmy.

Originally posted by random49er:
Hmmmmm. pages 31, 33, 38, and 40 out of a 61 page pdf is a helluva lot of skipping around, cropping, and highlighting.

Not sure how that proves anything about the VAST MAJORITY of our plays.

But I know that confusion like this convinces the masses here,....lol.

Alert !

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Alert !

Lol yea,....love jonny's efforts,....but some of this rhetoric is MIND-NUMBINGLY crazy.

We dont need information about alerts and triggers to see Jimmy G as a guy that was a bit of a loafer during the offseasons. Announced the idea here a couple seasons ago (I can bump it if you want? ).....and it all spilled out here this offseason. No alerts needed.

When the playoffs come and the field condenses,....all of these play designs will not explain why he generally disappears. We know why he disappears,...the defenses have had all year to gel, and are ready for 1-dimensional QBs like him relying heavily on the run game.

Again,...about the disappearing act,....trust your eyes on what you've seen from him vs. better defenses and throw all of the play design garbage where it belongs.

Guys like Mahomes, Rogers, Brady, Allen, et. al.,...we can clearly see on film that there's just no definitive answer for.

And tbh....Jimmy's never cared enough about ascending into that camp anyway. Maybe a contract year changes that up? Who knows.