Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by OhioNiner:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Originally posted by OhioNiner:
Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Until I see Jimmy tossing it deep with accuracy i expect the same results as previous seasons. Assuming he stays healthy himself.
I get it, everyone now is enamored with the deep ball. Kinda like the old "Chicks dig the long ball" baseball commercials.
I mean I like it too. It's exciting and it stresses a defense.
However, much like a home run you only get so many opportunities to even do it in a game and yeah you don't want to miss on it when you do.
Plus it has a *potential* down side.
Trey Lance let's say completes the pass he did to Danny Gray in the preseason and it's the same result. Their defense wasn't on the field very long and ours is right back on the field. Of course the seven points are nice.
Jimmy dinks and dunks and we get some run game mixed in and we still get seven while keeping their defense on the field and ours off of it.
It would be nice if his deep ball improves. But aside from that he just needs to do what he does as well as he can. We didn't win or lose, didn't lose a Super Bowl because of his deep ball accuracy or lack thereof. Yes he overthrew Sanders. But that was no more the sole cause of the loss than Tartt dropping the pick last year.
You're going to have to explain to me and Emmanuel Sanders how missing him late in the 4th quarter of a SB Deep and Wide open to take the lead back didn't cost the team anything.
I said deep ball and people think I'm talking Madden. I mean the threat of a deep ball I know you don't throw it deep 20x a game, but defenses need to respect it and Jimmy throws about 4 a year. They dont worry about him going deep, he ignores guys one on one with a 50/50 deep ball every time.
Aside that fact, when you get into championship football I don't care how amazing your team is. There will come a point in the game where you QB NEEDS to make a throw and often it can be a deep shot. Jimmy has never done that. I don't see why that would change now.
I hope he has a f**k it attitude and plays lights out with instinct and not being timid, but I have seen Jimmy not see the right read or not throw it accurately too often to expect magical improvement.
It was only a small sample but we saw a different Jimmy Sunday. He dropped a 40-yard dime on BA along the far sideline that was dropped. It was not an easy catch but one Aiyuk will make most of the time. He also put up a 50/50 ball to Gray in the end zone. The placement could have been a bit better but it did send the message he is willing to put one up there. Denver will have those on film and they will influence the safeties come Sunday.
Let's hope we see more of those.
I honestly believe, and none of us know, that yes Jimmy left on his own will do those things more often.
It's been said and I see Marc Adams has a reply in his mailbag that Jimmy in 2017 was different than Jimmy ever since.
Yes that's post ACL. But it's also pre knowing all of Kyle's offense.
Only he and Kyle can answer that but I think it has much more to do with what Kyle wants Jimmy to do within his offense than it does with what Jimmy is willing or unwilling to do or able or unable to do. Maybe even in his own head. "If I mess up this throw deep it will mess everything else up."
I mean regardless of it's mental because of the ACL or mental because of what he's supposed to do in the offense one consistent observation with Jimmy is he's not playing the same way he did when he first got here. Not as loose and easy and confidently. Given that the ACL was a one time fluke thing back in 2018 I would tend to believe that's not it.
This is false and I KNOW it. Want to know how? (1) Shanahan said (paraphrasing) you'd always prefer the QB to throw to the open deep guy than the short guy, but if it's completed and move the chains, what are you gonna complain to the QB about?
(2) We can SEE THE FILM OURSELVES and see open guys down field not thrown to.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Shanahan is not preventing Jimmy from throwing deep.
Alright, calm down there, buddy.
Here's some nuggets for you since people seem to think I'm not being honest about this. Many of the "deep" throws in Kyle's playbook are "alerts". They're triggered by certain conditions and ONLY by certain conditions. An alert is usually that you only look that way if there's a busted coverage.
FYI, these are all out of the 5-7 step drop portion of his playbook which is only half the passes. The rest are 3 step drop of play-action.
Here you see the corner routes are Alerts and the go route is a coverage adjustment route only against C2 zone
This is Kyle's version of Martz's Short post concept. The outside routes are Alerts and only verticals as coverage adjustments to run a vertical vs C2 zone
Even on a Go+Shade the Go is only an Alert
These are only a few examples but what you see in the VAST MAJORITY of our plays. If we're throwing the Alert, it's got to be triggered by the conditions established by KS himself or a busted coverage. On an Alert, even then the QB is to peak quick and if he doesn't like it move on but NEVER let it disrupt the timing of the primary progression.
For example, If you see press-man on an Z stream, you check to make sure the D didn't bust the late motion and if they didn't you move on to your progression. It'll be super fast.
My comment was to Ohioniner, not you. I am not sure of the custom here, but as I understand it, the last person in the quote chain is usually the one being responded to on most websites. But this has happened a couple of times here so I'm wondering if people think that if they are in the chain of quotes that the most recent comment is to them.
Anyway, as far as these random plays, Shanahan generally has a progression offense, and we can see on the tape when a guy is open down the field and the short pass is taken. For example:
I really, really hope you're not arguing that the above isn't real. It happened, and it happens frequently. Like last year on the Texans on the pa boot to the left where Trey through the deep cross while everyone knows Jimmy would have taken the throw to the tight end.
So I will say unequivocally that Shanahan is NOT why Jimmy throws it short so often. That's Jimmy's reads most of the time; and they are not always the ideal read, even if they are safer.
Well a couple things, it's not like we haven't seen Jimmy throw the corner-post and Trey threw it because the middle safety was out of position. Surely, since you played QB you know that a safety can be in position or out of position on a deep post and still be back deep.
Your post from Jack, whom I will admit I'm friendly with Jack, but it's 2 different coverages. One is C3 sky the other is C3 cloud. The safety in sky is shaded to the double post/in side so the throwing lane isn't there. The clouds the late rotation of the middle safety opens up the play.
In go+Shade we've seen Jimmy throw the high cross a bunch of times - it's actually a route people use as the "Jimmy only throws over the middle" thing. He's thrown it to Kittle on these umpteen million times. It's a hi/lo read on the WILL as it crosses the face of the middle safety or a hi/lo on the MIKE in C2.
Did you read Lombardis article when he talked to Jimmy at his locker after the game and then asked him about it in his presser?
He said Jimmy was THRILLED to push the ball down the field in the last game. Then Lombardi followed up on it in the presser, Jimmy said, "yeah like we were talking about earlier felt more like 2017 when it was go out there, throw it and make plays. That's different from what we normally do around here, but sometimes you need that."
Everything I've read from Shanahan and see from his QB's, all of them, and the playbook is very structured.
In the SAME GAME we've seen a new QB come in and attack more down the field (see when C.J. Beathard came in in 2020).
It is not Shanahan's
scheme.
This is astounding to me. We can all get access to the All 22. We can see there are down the field routes called.
Are you trying to tell me that Shanahan is telling his QBs to not throw to the open man if he is down field?
About the only possible reason beyond QB reads/preferences anyone could even attempt to argue os to claim that Shanahan doesn't trust Garoppolo's deep ball, but that is belied by the All 22 in which deep routes are called. As Shanahan uses progressions, it would be quite the stretch to claim Shanahan tells Jimmy to ignore the open man.
Is that what he has done in the past?
.
.
By the way, you'll note that I have pointed out repeatedly that Jimmy was tenth in the NFL last year in completed air yards per completion. It is in fact somewhat of a myth that the 49ers are only a rink and dunk offense.
