Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by 49ers81:
You see, this is where you keep getting yourself in trouble. You always claim you're just being objective about something which you assert is an "obvious" truth, which is that Jimmy is an average QB. That's you're opinion and you're entitled to it but that doesn't make it true. It is a common theme in this thread and, from the opposite side posted by others in the Lance thread. People keep mistaking their opinions for some hard truth and so they feel compelled to have to endlessly debate their point to convince everyone else that their opinion is the correct one, and everyone else is just too stupid to realize it, when in fact it's just your opinion.
It's like the hypocrisy of another poster in here who has been going on about how he and others don't REALLY dislike Jimmy, they are just offering valid "criticisms" of his play. Spending ten pages worth of posts arguing about whether or not a pass that Jimmy threw to Deebo against Chicago last year, that resulted in a TD that helped them win the game was a good pass or not. That's not just "criticism" that's pathological. Jimmy threw it, Deebo caught it, they scored a TD, who cares.
It's also like an idea, that is popular in here and is often echoed among some of the talking head class on TV, looking at you Dan Orlovsky, which claims that it's the defense and Kyle's scheme that are primarily responsible for the team's success and that Jimmy has virtually nothing to do with it and is just along for the ride. If that were true then just about any QB of average skill should be able to do it, but so far that hasn't been the case. They win with Jimmy and lose with everyone else. Does Jimmy have his shortcomings? Absolutely, but so far he has been the only one that has manged to keep the team competitive through the course of a whole season.
Now of course the hope with Lance is that he will have a higher ceiling than Jimmy in terms of his ability to attack down the field more frequently, which seems to be the only thing that some people in here care about. They will go on about how the threat of the deep ball puts more pressure on opposing defenses and forces them to defend the whole field and yadda, yadda, yadda. But if you read between the lines a bit you will usually find that they just think it's more "entertaining" to watch a QB throw the ball all around the field then the ground and pound, short passing game which seems to have been the team's philosophy for the past few year's. I will let guys like Jonnydel sort all of that out because he clearly has more insight on it.
The book on Lance has yet to be written. I think it is everyone's hope that he will turn out to be everything the team believed he could be when they drafted him, but he is still, clearly, a work in progress, People say that the conditions in the Chicago game were a big factor in that loss. Probably, but there was a game against Washington in 2019 where it was also pouring down rain and the team had five turnovers and yet they still found a way to win it with Jimmy at the helm.
Although it was a very limited sample size, the offense did not look particularly dynamic in the first couple of drives against Seattle. They were running the ball well but there was just something about it that seemed a bit off. It was pointed out by some analyst I was watching that on Deebo's long run on a read option Lance made the wrong read on that play and should have kept the ball himself. Deebo's skill turned what looked like a sure loss into a huge gain so it worked out, which I am cool with, but it was still, apparently the wrong call by Lance, which is just his inexperience, So now this whole experiment has been put on hold for another year, which is unfortunate in some ways but may allow for the short term benefit of the team being more competitive this year.
This whole situation is an odd one with a lot of competing narratives. Steve Young, who lost two straight NFC championship games as I recall because of ill timed picks, is telling anyone who will listen that Jimmy got "fired" from the job, which is hard to argue with. Dan Orlovsky, is telling anyone who will listen that Jimmy is just along for the ride and can't get the team over the hump. This from a guy who I don't think ever took his team to an NFL playoff game. However there is someone else out there, whose name escapes me for the moment, pointing out that one of the underlying dynamics at play here is that Lance was handed the job, because of his draft status, without the benefit of actually having earned it which is something that may have led to some of the recent talk being rumored to have come out of the locker room.
When Jimmy's status was still unclear as training camp approached and the team was saying, at least publicly, that they weren't going to release him I suggested that if that were the case they should just bring him back to camp and let he and Lance compete for the job and may the best man win. That would help ease any unspoken issues among the team about who should start and might have been beneficial in terms of Lance's development in terms of making him compete for a job that he had already planned on being his. I mean, if Lance is destined to be so much better than Jimmy than he shouldn't have had any problem beating him out in camp, right?
But that's not the way things worked out and now Jimmy is back as QB1 and we'll see how far he can take us. I am of the camp who believes that Jimmy is perfectly capable of taking the team to the Super Bowl and winning it but that it will require his consistently best play to do so. There seem to be a couple of pretty good teams out there at the moment so this may well be a tougher get than their 2019 run. But, if they can pull it off, that will just make it that much sweeter. Go Niners!
I'm sorry but how can anyone proclaim anything outside of that at this point in his career with the film and data backing it up? That's like me saying Jared Goff is anything more than an avg starting QB. I don't think that's a horrible thing either, like I said there's starting QBs right now that have no business being starters. There's some pretty s**tty QB play right now in the league overall.
the first two drives we rolled right down the field, not sure what else you want. Didn't get into the end zone but there was zero issues outside of that. Seattle is awful vs the run. So we ran the ball. And yeah most objective fans would understand a QB in his 2 start as the #1 might take a little longer to get everything rolling just right. It's not instant 99% of the time.
I don't think Lance made the wrong read. There was free defenders on both sides on the line. Lance would have gotten hit if he kept it all the same (#13 was untouched). Hand it off to your dynamic playmaker.
reports were last yr that he was well on his way to beating Jimmy in camp before breaking his finger (Jim Trotter reported it). Jimmy is gonna get paid more by someone else in FA. Lance will be the starter and fans will have to have some sort of patience.
The only thing I have an issue with is making definitive statements about either Jimmy or Trey without them having a chance to defend themselves.
It's extremely hypocritical, once again, to act like calling Jimmy an average QB or the reviewing negative film is the worst examples of bias on this thread when everyone can see how many people were calling Trey a bust, or he's not ready, or he's inaccurate, he has a scared look in his eye, the team was relieved when he got injured, or we're gonna trade him next season, or that he wouldn't have made the playoffs, especially given his circumstances with a broken finger last year and his only full game this season was in a monsoon.
Posters like 81 had no problem with comments last season like, "Trey's not ready" or "starting Trey Lance this season would result in a wasted season" or "Jimmy's way ahead of Trey in his reads", all while knowing they've yet to see him play a down in a regular season game in the NFL.
That's why posts like this one remain very hollow to me. I have yet to see many posters who were high on Jimmy ever call out others for statements that would surely be considered hate, but since it's Trey, they remain silent.
I can already see this forum going back to how it was last season. Where a group of posters will label you a hater for reviewing film, but those same posters have no issue or never confront others about things they claim they care about, when it's about Trey. That's the problem. You gotta be consistent. And you're not.
Jimmy's had many years to prove himself. I've seen a couple posters on here who were dishing out the "Jimmy hater" label all of last season, come to realize the "hate" was never about Jimmy, it's always about the starting QB of the 49ers.
It's not other posters responsibility to make you feel good about a player. I see no problem in calling out others for making definitive claims about a player that they cannot prove with facts. But please, just stop acting like reviewing negative film is a bad thing. If you think there's too much negative film being reviewed, then post some positive film and state your case. I've repeatedly requested to see all the bad film from Trey in Chicago. Does that make me a Trey hater? Because I've yet to be called one. Which should be telling since you think it's such a big deal, but no one cared enough about Trey's negative film to call me out on that.
