Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
The QB dictates if an offense can be pass centric. If you look around the league at all the run heavy offenses, Jimmy is a notch above all of those QB's. But if you put Jimmy on a pass centric offense, I can't see him putting up elite QB stats. The reason is because of his inability to make defenses pay for cheating on the shorter routes like the elite QB's are capable of. Jimmy relies on the running game to keep defenses honest. All elite QB's are capable of running that same short rhythmic passing game that Jimmy thrives in. Where the elite QB's separate themselves from Jimmy is their ability to blow the top off of defenses.

He's also quite a few notches above Brian Hoyer, CJ Beathard and Nick Mullens

Yes, sir. He most certainly is.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
The QB dictates if an offense can be pass centric. If you look around the league at all the run heavy offenses, Jimmy is a notch above all of those QB's. But if you put Jimmy on a pass centric offense, I can't see him putting up elite QB stats. The reason is because of his inability to make defenses pay for cheating on the shorter routes like the elite QB's are capable of. Jimmy relies on the running game to keep defenses honest. All elite QB's are capable of running that same short rhythmic passing game that Jimmy thrives in. Where the elite QB's separate themselves from Jimmy is their ability to blow the top off of defenses.

He's also quite a few notches above Brian Hoyer, CJ Beathard and Nick Mullens

Yes, sir. He most certainly is.

idk.. mullens only 2nd to Mahomes out of all the QBs.. lets blame Mullens' defense

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
how did he increase the run game more than the years prior ?

Is this a real question?

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
The QB dictates if an offense can be pass centric. If you look around the league at all the run heavy offenses, Jimmy is a notch above all of those QB's. But if you put Jimmy on a pass centric offense, I can't see him putting up elite QB stats. The reason is because of his inability to make defenses pay for cheating on the shorter routes like the elite QB's are capable of. Jimmy relies on the running game to keep defenses honest. All elite QB's are capable of running that same short rhythmic passing game that Jimmy thrives in. Where the elite QB's separate themselves from Jimmy is their ability to blow the top off of defenses.

He's also quite a few notches above Brian Hoyer, CJ Beathard and Nick Mullens

Yes, sir. He most certainly is.

idk.. mullens only 2nd to Mahomes out of all the QBs.. lets blame Mullens' defense

WUT?

Originally posted by Garce:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Hence why myself and 9ers4eva provided references to two different stats. Case in point.

But the POINT is, nobody has found one game where a QB had that much pressure (38%+) with no running game, yet you both STILL have the exact same expectations that Jimmy should have still transformed that in the NFCCG. And he's a lesser talent.

And when I showed you a more talented QB couldn't do it either, the same one who many thought had we switched QB's in the NFCCG, we'd have won, he actually scored 7 less points than Jimmy and this offense.

My argument all along was, you need to look at the same scenarios if you're going to swap QB's in a hypothetical. I said Stafford probably would have folded under the same situation. And now we know that's a fact.

But it wasnt the same scenario and you know it.

Dafuq?

Originally posted by NCommand:
Dafuq?

He posted the video of Stafford throwing a game winning TD with a separated shoulder. Flies in the face of the he would fold narrative.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Just like the O line thread and harping about not bringing the QB into it. Lets keep this about the QB.

You don't think Mahomes or Allen would still thrive as passers if they were in the Shanny system and the run game wasn't working?

Even in a run first system, there are going to be games that you need to depend on your QB to carry the offense when the run game isn't working.

I am. I'm saying if you took the passing game away from higher end QB's like the aforementioned, could the TEAM win by playing to their weakness? It's all about how you're built. Your strengths. We just saw Stafford play under identical circumstances to Jimmy in the NFCCG, who isn't as talented, completely s**t the bed and could only score 10 points. Could the Rams just switch gears and win with the running game if their passing game is shut down?

That's what you're saying here. If we have to play outside our formula and how this team is built, of course we're less likely to win. They don't spend countless hours in the passing game like a pass centric offense would do.

I don't see this as a Jimmy stat but how a team is constructed to win.

Not even kind of true

Same exact pressure rate and same low ypc.

But if you feel the need to continue to defend Stafford, go for it you Rams fan.

I don't give a s**t about the pressure rate. The ram OL play game one was nothing close to the niner OL play in the NFCCG. Was infinitely worse and not one unbiased person would think otherwise . No need for exaggerated takes ti try and defend a position

True. They only had a 38% pressure rate. Jimmy had 41% through all of the playoffs.

And Stafford, like Jimmy, couldn't escape that pressure and many of them turned into sacks. Jimmy's usually turn into big hits and INT's (he never throws it away).

Here you go with pressure rates again. I'll use one of your lines from years ago before you shifted to pressure rates as the barometer. "Well what actually constitutes a pressure? Seems very subjective"
if you are seriously trying to say with a straight face that the OL play were comparable, then you are being disingenuous.

Hence why myself and 9ers4eva provided references to two different stats. Case in point.

But the POINT is, nobody has found one game where a QB had that much pressure (38%+) with no running game, yet you both STILL have the exact same expectations that Jimmy should have still transformed that in the NFCCG. And he's a lesser talent.

And when I showed you a more talented QB couldn't do it either, the same one who many thought had we switched QB's in the NFCCG, we'd have won, he actually scored 7 less points than Jimmy and this offense.

My argument all along was, you need to look at the same scenarios if you're going to swap QB's in a hypothetical. I said Stafford probably would have folded under the same situation. And now we know that's a fact.

lol. We've officially hit the NC exaggerated takes potion of the day

We've officially hit the 9ers4eva and Hoov portion of the day where facts are ignored to pump up a Rams QB and disparage a 49er QB played under the same circumstances.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Dafuq?

He posted the video of Stafford throwing a game winning TD with a separated shoulder. Flies in the face of the he would fold narrative.

What does that have to do with anything? LOL.

Originally posted by NCommand:
We've officially hit the 9ers4eva and Hoov portion of the day where facts are ignored to pump up a Rams QB and disparage a 49er QB played under the same circumstances.

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/189603-qb-jimmy-garoppolo-thread/page8477/#post127146

Exact same as a sack. Absolutely no difference

Originally posted by NCommand:
We've officially hit the 9ers4eva and Hoov portion of the day where facts are ignored to pump up a Rams QB and disparage a 49er QB played under the same circumstances.

Lol No one disparaged anyone (another gross exaggeration), simply calling out your exaggerated nonsense and propensity to pivot and add in caveat after caveat after your assertions are disproven.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Jimmy Garoppolo's record is 3-7 when he has passed the ball more than 30 times and the run game has failed to gain 100 yards on the ground. This does not include games he did not start or did not finish.

Makes sense. If hes not getting carried we lose.

And when he's not our starting qb, we lose more than win. Team sports are like that.

The QB dictates if an offense can be pass centric. If you look around the league at all the run heavy offenses, Jimmy is a notch above all of those QB's. But if you put Jimmy on a pass centric offense, I can't see him putting up elite QB stats. The reason is because of his inability to make defenses pay for cheating on the shorter routes like the elite QB's are capable of. Jimmy relies on the running game to keep defenses honest. All elite QB's are capable of running that same short rhythmic passing game that Jimmy thrives in. Where the elite QB's separate themselves from Jimmy is their ability to blow the top off of defenses.

I genuinely hope we get this guy because I want to see it so badly with Kyle in his offense today. LOL

Jimmy was pretty successful in a spread offense. That's QB centric. But who knows if he'd find success like that in the NFL if he went to another team that had a spread offense for 17+ games. I could certainly see an argument against that.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:
We've officially hit the 9ers4eva and Hoov portion of the day where facts are ignored to pump up a Rams QB and disparage a 49er QB played under the same circumstances.

Lol No one disparaged anyone (another gross exaggeration), simply calling out your exaggerated nonsense and propensity to pivot and add in caveat after caveat after your assertions are disproven.

You wanted facts on your hypothetical. You got them. You've got nothing to counter, unfortunately. Or at least show me the "exaggeration."

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Silky,

While I don't have a problem with anyone calling out NY for that statement. I think the statement is pretty fair if it's a comment about the past, if it's for this season, yes it's entirety possible Jimmy elevates his game to be considered elite, so you could make the argument that it's not being objective in the present.

My problem is that the poster who called NY out makes the exact same mistake that he claims NY did. He contributes to definitive claims about Trey, and ignores the egregious ones like Trey's a bust, Trey wouldn't have made the playoffs, and then simultaneously he's the king of fairness for Jimmy. It's so incredibly hypocritical and yet people gobble that s**t up like it's fair and reasonable.

Can we just stop making "factual" claims that we cannot prove? I will indeed call out posters who make claims that Trey would have played better than Jimmy going forward, and all while knowing how many posters will claim it's a fact Jimmy will perform better than Trey. You cannot prove either of those statements. And yet only one is socially acceptable on this board.

Absolutely. The reality is there is no basis for anyone saying they know how Trey would play as there is not a large enough sample. It's the definition of an unknown.

Jimmy is not an unknown. There is lots of data. It's not being a "hater" to question can he be better than he has been.

I want Jimmy to play better. I also want Trey to succeed when it's his turn. It's how every 9er fan should be feeling.

I have never said or suggested that I have any idea how Lance will turn out and in fact have gone out of my way to always say that I hope he turns out to be everything the team envisioned when they drafted him As I said above, his story remains to be written. For the other poster to suggest there is some kind of equivalency to my not defending Lance against people who are claiming he is a bust and my willingness to call out others for claiming that their opinions about Jimmy represent some sort of undeniable truth is just misguided.

Jimmy has a pretty large body of work on which he can be judged and people have formed whatever opinions they have about him by now. But the fact is that they remain just opinions with the truth probably lying somewhere in the middle. The irony of all this is that, in essence, the criticisms of the people who like to come in here and diss Jimmy all the time are probably not all that different from the criticisms of the people who support him which are that he doesn't throw a consistently accurate deep ball and that he has a way of throwing picks where you're just not sure what it is he is seeing. The only real difference is that there are people who think those inconsistencies make him a "bad' QB where I look at those very same inconsistencies and say that they are what keeps him from being a really good QB. It really just seems to boil down to a matter of perception.

On the other hand Lance remains pretty much of an unknown quantity. i actually don't have much of an opinion about him one way or the other and don't feel I need to go out of my way to defend him against people who, for whatever reason, have already decided he wasn't worth what they gave up to get him. Some people clearly have an issue with him which I don't quite get but he has plenty of others in here to carry that water for him, he doesn't need me for that.

I think where people get confused is in my derision for the stupid arguments that are often used to attack Jimmy's game, like IAY and TOWP and for the kind of over the top response to Lance's being drafted. "Oh, he's going to be the best at this and he is going to be elite at that", without the benefit of, well you know, having actually seen him play a down in the NFL. I mean there's nothing wrong with a little enthusiasm but that was kind of off the charts. And that's all I have to say on that topic.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
We've officially hit the 9ers4eva and Hoov portion of the day where facts are ignored to pump up a Rams QB and disparage a 49er QB played under the same circumstances.

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/189603-qb-jimmy-garoppolo-thread/page8477/#post127146

Exact same as a sack. Absolutely no difference

?

Jimmy G. has been with this team for the last few years, strengths & weaknesses have been well analyzed by the fans, and the media, over and over again.

If Jimmy G. misses games again due to injury, and/or we don't make the playoffs, most likely 49ers will move on from him.
If the 49ers make the playoffs (not SB), most likely he will offered the same backup job (no one knows how Lance will pan out, it's unknown)
If the 49ers make the SB and/or win it, that equates to at least 3 NFCCG in every season that he has been healthy. He will most likely get a new 3-yr contract.