-
Waterbear
- Veteran
-
- Posts: 18,527
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
This is always fascinating.
Kyle is a genius for being able to scheme and win with Jimmy yet and idiot for not being able to scheme and score more points with Trey and running him too much. Weird.
Or the real answer Kyle is a great playcaller who isn't perfect by any means but is the best we've had since Walsh. But who sure as sh*t isn't limiting his quarterbacks.
I'm confused. Are we allowed to blame Kyle for the lack of deep passes or not?
-
thl408
- Moderator
-
- Posts: 33,122
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by wysiwyg:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
We almost had "that guy" in Kirk Cousins. LOL
Jimmy may have thrived in a spread offense in college but I find it hard to believe he would find extensive success if he ran one in the NFL. Again, he would be limited because of his ability to push the ball down field when neccessary. Same thing with Alex Smith. He ran alot of spread in KC with Andy Reid but when teams forced him to go vertical at a high rate, they would lose. That was the main reason why they drafted Pat Mahomes. I honestly believe that Jimmy is in an offense that best fits his skillset. But when the rushing attack isn't on its game, Jimmy has shown to be less affective and his record reflects that. Now, should Kyle go spread more often when the run game isn't working? That is a real question to ponder.
You guys with your "JiMMy cAn'T pUsH tEh bAlL dOWnTHe FIeLd" nonsense is ridiculous, and false.
Did you not see the deep out to Aiyuk that should've been caught.
They must not have seen his presser today
What did he say today?
Edit. More evidence.
JG Translation: Free Jimmy, Kyle.
Garoppolo threw for 154 yards and one touchdown against the Seahawks and came out throwing the ball with frequency despite being away from the team for months. Could the remainder of the season bring more of the same? He certainly seems to hope so. Garoppolo mentioned after the game that the aggressive approach reminded him of his first months with the 49ers in 2017 when he was firing the ball all over the field while learning head coach Kyle Shanahan's offense on the fly, something he talked about once again during his media session on Thursday.
"I love that," Garoppolo said. "Yeah. It's just there's a lot of things that go with that obviously. But yeah, I love doing that stuff. In '17, there was a freedom where me, the receivers, the tight ends, we had a good chemistry going. When you get that with offensive skills in a quarterback, it makes for a tough offense."
Could there be more of that to come? Perhaps we'll start to find out Sunday night.
"I think we'll see that as we go forward. I don't know," Garoppolo said. "The more freedom you have as a quarterback, obviously, you play better, you're more confident, and good things will happen."
Kyle's retort to Jimmy's comments about being more free to make plays. From Bonilla on the HP.
Kyle Shanahan joined KNBR on Friday morning and had an opportunity to respond to the comments. Would the head coach be more willing to "wing it" more with Garoppolo than he did in 2019 and 2021?
"Yeah, I'm not even sure what that question or those statements mean, but we're always the same," Shanahan responded on the Murph & Mac show. "We try to do what we think gives us the best chance to succeed. That has to do with our skill set and what we're going against. There's no such thing as, 'Hey, I feel like winging it this year. I feel like going deep this year. I feel like going short this year. I feel like running the ball this year.' It doesn't work that way.
"It works with, what's your personnel? What are you going against? And what do you think gives you the best chance to win on Sunday? And that's really how we look at everything."
Shanahan was asked if there was a difference in 2017 when Garoppolo seemed to be throwing the football more.
"Yeah, we were a real bad team," he answered. "We weren't nearly as balanced. He came in and took over a 1-9 team. And I think what he meant—I don't want to make assumptions like you guys are—but if I have to, I would guess what he meant is he was going in there, and he was personally winging it a lot more. He was new to the offense.
"We were going in and just trying to—I guess we threw it more when he came in at that time. I'm not really sure. But the stats and stuff, look at how efficient we were in '19. Look at us throwing the ball. Look at us last year. I mean, we averaged more yards gained on every pass play we did. So, at the end of it, where they land and where they get tackled, we actually are getting deeper than anybody when it comes to completions. That's something you never feel bad about.
"You can air it out down the field all day, but at the end of the day, when you average less yards per pass than we do, I don't feel that's as successful. Our goal is to try to be efficient, try to be successful, and that doesn't mean throwing it short. That means doing what you think you're good at and what the defense is giving to you. And that changes quarter to quarter, week to week, year to year."
We should just pin Kyle's retort in this thread.
People saying we didn't throw deep in 2019 because of Jimmy, Kyle is basically saying, "big F'n deal, we got the same result as those throwing deep in a more efficient way and that's how I like it"
Sherm talked in his pod with K.J. how Kyle would always show the charts that if they ran the ball 30x they won 80% of the time. He's gonna freaking run that ball, look to pick up first downs run it some more and if the defense tries to cheat he'll try and take a shot but he's looking for what's most efficient more than anything.
Even in his own words, fans that prefer another QB will still spin this to the QB somehow. Even with Trey's excellent arm, Gray was basically inactive both games. Ray-Ray, barely used. The fans still think Kyle the HC is something, he's telling you with his own words, he's not. Fans want entertainment (explosives). Kyle is completely opposite of that.
He is Bo Schembechler 2.0 
you guys over read the part where he said it's based off personel ?
Yeah, his OWN hand picked personnel and the defense we play and their strengths and weaknesses based on how his own can exploit them.
What does that have to do with his own philosophy?
meaning your not going to fit a jimmy peg into a mahomes hole
Running the ball is everyones philosophy
+ Show all quotes
LOL. Maybe in 1949.
Every great Walsh team was huge on running the ball. Just look at the drive that led to the Catch.
Lenvil Elliot, Bill Ring, Paul Hofer
Earl the motherjoker pearl Cooper
Roger Craig, Wendell Tyler
The WCO is simply an efficient, time-eating passing version of a run. But Walsh used the PASS to set up the run in the 2nd half to ice games.
Kyle uses the run out of the gates to set up more runs to set up an efficient time-eating passing game.
Kyle uses the run to browbeat the defense, then call timely shot plays. I think his wett dream box score is 40 runs for 5 yards per run (200 yards rushing). Then his QB has a stat line of 15/18 for 15 yards per attempt (270 passing yards).
-
NCommand
- Hall of Fame
-
- Posts: 123,365
Originally posted by BangBang49er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
I said this yesterday in here but I guess you missed it. Jimmy's TTT average was 3.40 seconds when under pressure. Either he was scrambling a lot or he was holding the ball too long. Also, Trey Lance proved in the pre season against the packers that you don't need 3 seconds to throw the deep ball. Well maybe Jimmy does.
+ Show all quotes
NCommand reading this
Something isn't adding up there. YAC, you're saying of all of his 41% QB pressures through the playoffs, his TTT (which is an accumulated average) was 3.40s?
That's incredibly hard to believe esp. for a non-scrambling QB. In fact, if Jimmy held any ball for 3.40s, he'd be carted off the field for sure.
Yeah Id like to see the source
I'm not questioning YAC at all though...just that source.
Justin Fields had the highest all last year at 3.26 TTT.
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#yards
-
NCommand
- Hall of Fame
-
- Posts: 123,365
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by wysiwyg:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
We almost had "that guy" in Kirk Cousins. LOL
Jimmy may have thrived in a spread offense in college but I find it hard to believe he would find extensive success if he ran one in the NFL. Again, he would be limited because of his ability to push the ball down field when neccessary. Same thing with Alex Smith. He ran alot of spread in KC with Andy Reid but when teams forced him to go vertical at a high rate, they would lose. That was the main reason why they drafted Pat Mahomes. I honestly believe that Jimmy is in an offense that best fits his skillset. But when the rushing attack isn't on its game, Jimmy has shown to be less affective and his record reflects that. Now, should Kyle go spread more often when the run game isn't working? That is a real question to ponder.
You guys with your "JiMMy cAn'T pUsH tEh bAlL dOWnTHe FIeLd" nonsense is ridiculous, and false.
Did you not see the deep out to Aiyuk that should've been caught.
They must not have seen his presser today
What did he say today?
Edit. More evidence.
JG Translation: Free Jimmy, Kyle.
Garoppolo threw for 154 yards and one touchdown against the Seahawks and came out throwing the ball with frequency despite being away from the team for months. Could the remainder of the season bring more of the same? He certainly seems to hope so. Garoppolo mentioned after the game that the aggressive approach reminded him of his first months with the 49ers in 2017 when he was firing the ball all over the field while learning head coach Kyle Shanahan's offense on the fly, something he talked about once again during his media session on Thursday.
"I love that," Garoppolo said. "Yeah. It's just there's a lot of things that go with that obviously. But yeah, I love doing that stuff. In '17, there was a freedom where me, the receivers, the tight ends, we had a good chemistry going. When you get that with offensive skills in a quarterback, it makes for a tough offense."
Could there be more of that to come? Perhaps we'll start to find out Sunday night.
"I think we'll see that as we go forward. I don't know," Garoppolo said. "The more freedom you have as a quarterback, obviously, you play better, you're more confident, and good things will happen."
Kyle's retort to Jimmy's comments about being more free to make plays. From Bonilla on the HP.
Kyle Shanahan joined KNBR on Friday morning and had an opportunity to respond to the comments. Would the head coach be more willing to "wing it" more with Garoppolo than he did in 2019 and 2021?
"Yeah, I'm not even sure what that question or those statements mean, but we're always the same," Shanahan responded on the Murph & Mac show. "We try to do what we think gives us the best chance to succeed. That has to do with our skill set and what we're going against. There's no such thing as, 'Hey, I feel like winging it this year. I feel like going deep this year. I feel like going short this year. I feel like running the ball this year.' It doesn't work that way.
"It works with, what's your personnel? What are you going against? And what do you think gives you the best chance to win on Sunday? And that's really how we look at everything."
Shanahan was asked if there was a difference in 2017 when Garoppolo seemed to be throwing the football more.
"Yeah, we were a real bad team," he answered. "We weren't nearly as balanced. He came in and took over a 1-9 team. And I think what he meant—I don't want to make assumptions like you guys are—but if I have to, I would guess what he meant is he was going in there, and he was personally winging it a lot more. He was new to the offense.
"We were going in and just trying to—I guess we threw it more when he came in at that time. I'm not really sure. But the stats and stuff, look at how efficient we were in '19. Look at us throwing the ball. Look at us last year. I mean, we averaged more yards gained on every pass play we did. So, at the end of it, where they land and where they get tackled, we actually are getting deeper than anybody when it comes to completions. That's something you never feel bad about.
"You can air it out down the field all day, but at the end of the day, when you average less yards per pass than we do, I don't feel that's as successful. Our goal is to try to be efficient, try to be successful, and that doesn't mean throwing it short. That means doing what you think you're good at and what the defense is giving to you. And that changes quarter to quarter, week to week, year to year."
We should just pin Kyle's retort in this thread.
People saying we didn't throw deep in 2019 because of Jimmy, Kyle is basically saying, "big F'n deal, we got the same result as those throwing deep in a more efficient way and that's how I like it"
Sherm talked in his pod with K.J. how Kyle would always show the charts that if they ran the ball 30x they won 80% of the time. He's gonna freaking run that ball, look to pick up first downs run it some more and if the defense tries to cheat he'll try and take a shot but he's looking for what's most efficient more than anything.
Even in his own words, fans that prefer another QB will still spin this to the QB somehow. Even with Trey's excellent arm, Gray was basically inactive both games. Ray-Ray, barely used. The fans still think Kyle the HC is something, he's telling you with his own words, he's not. Fans want entertainment (explosives). Kyle is completely opposite of that.
He is Bo Schembechler 2.0
you guys over read the part where he said it's based off personel ?
Yeah, his OWN hand picked personnel and the defense we play and their strengths and weaknesses based on how his own can exploit them.
What does that have to do with his own philosophy?
meaning your not going to fit a jimmy peg into a mahomes hole
Running the ball is everyones philosophy
LOL. Maybe in 1949.
+ Show all quotes
Every great Walsh team was huge on running the ball. Just look at the drive that led to the Catch.
Lenvil Elliot, Bill Ring, Paul Hofer
Earl the motherjoker pearl Cooper
Roger Craig, Wendell Tyler
The WCO is simply an efficient, time-eating passing version of a run. But Walsh used the PASS to set up the run in the 2nd half to ice games.
Kyle uses the run out of the gates to set up more runs to set up an efficient time-eating passing game.
Kyle uses the run to browbeat the defense, then call timely shot plays. I think his wett dream box score is 40 runs for 5 yards per run (200 yards rushing). Then his QB has a stat line of 15/18 for 15 yards per attempt (270 passing yards).
That certainly would be his wet dream. Or blowout a team so badly on the ground in the playoffs, his QB only needs to pass 8 times. LOL
-
9ers4eva
- Veteran
-
- Posts: 20,176
-
YACBros85
- Veteran
-
- Posts: 9,899
Jimmy had 33 dropbacks under pressure in the playoffs. Which was 41.3% of all of his drop backs in the playoffs. He went 12 of 27 for 112, 0 td's, 3 int's, 0 BTT's, 4 TWP's, 6.0 ADOT, 2 drops, 3 BAT's, 4 sacks, 2 scrambles, 3.40 TTT, 8 first downs, and a 16.8 passer rating.
-
YACBros85
- Veteran
-
- Posts: 9,899
-
Hoovtrain
- Veteran
-
- Posts: 32,693
-
YACBros85
- Veteran
-
- Posts: 9,899
-
NCommand
- Hall of Fame
-
- Posts: 123,365
Holy s**t. For those who want to watch the "explosive Kyle Shanahan offense," watch the Miami (Ravens) game from week 2. Good Lord.
-
BangBang49er
- Member
-
- Posts: 733
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by BangBang49er:
Comparing a SB defense that is probably top 10-15 all time to green bay in preseason is not a good argument.
Hold on here. The Rams defense from 2021 is a top 10 defense all time?
"probably top 10-15 all time"
It was a great defense. Won them the Super Bowl.
-
NCommand
- Hall of Fame
-
- Posts: 123,365
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by BangBang49er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
I said this yesterday in here but I guess you missed it. Jimmy's TTT average was 3.40 seconds when under pressure. Either he was scrambling a lot or he was holding the ball too long. Also, Trey Lance proved in the pre season against the packers that you don't need 3 seconds to throw the deep ball. Well maybe Jimmy does.
NCommand reading this
Something isn't adding up there. YAC, you're saying of all of his 41% QB pressures through the playoffs, his TTT (which is an accumulated average) was 3.40s?
That's incredibly hard to believe esp. for a non-scrambling QB. In fact, if Jimmy held any ball for 3.40s, he'd be carted off the field for sure.
+ Show all quotes
Yeah Id like to see the source
I'm not questioning YAC at all though...just that source.
Justin Fields had the highest all last year at 3.26 TTT.
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#yards
Justin Fields didn't play in the playoffs last year.
I was using the entire regular season's highest TTT as an example. That's why I questioned that stat.
In fact, do we have one clip of JG holding the ball for 3.4s? Let alone for an entire average?
[ Edited by NCommand on Sep 23, 2022 at 11:13 AM ]
-
thl408
- Moderator
-
- Posts: 33,122
Originally posted by NCommand:
Holy s**t. For those who want to watch the "explosive Kyle Shanahan offense," watch the Miami (Ravens) game from week 2. Good Lord.
That wasn't an explosive offense that was a defense (BAL) that doesn't know right from left. Blown coverages hurt.
