Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
That is what pff says. That is his average while under pressure in the playoffs. Not average from all drop backs.

What does PFF know. Only thing you can trust from them is pressure rate and Tashaun Gibson rating.

So the only thing we can trust is what each individual decides to cherry pick?

Now you're getting it

Show one clip of JG holding the ball for 3.40s then...while under pressure. Let alone 33 of them to average 3.40s. That makes zero sense.

Give us a reputable source that proves otherwise.

It doesn't even add up with their own stats when 3.26 was the longest TTT of any QB all year.

If this was the case, it would be easy to review the games and see this. Just one of these.

Are those stats for all year include the playoffs or just the regular season?

Also, I can take a snapshot of the stat chart if my integrity is being questioned.

That was for the entire 2022 regular season. TT is managed by nextgenstats. Maybe PFF is using a different operational definition?

Bro, I said several times I'm not questioning YOU at all or your integrity. You're simply posting what you see.

That wasn't exclusive to you. It was more in general to the entire board.

You said that was for the entire 2022 regular season. That doesn't have anything to do with the 2021 playoffs.

Sorry, meant the full 2021 season. It was actually Jalen Hurts at 3.12s as the highest TT in the league.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
That is what pff says. That is his average while under pressure in the playoffs. Not average from all drop backs.

What does PFF know. Only thing you can trust from them is pressure rate and Tashaun Gibson rating.

So the only thing we can trust is what each individual decides to cherry pick?

Now you're getting it

Show one clip of JG holding the ball for 3.40s then...while under pressure. Let alone 33 of them to average 3.40s. That makes zero sense.

Give us a reputable source that proves otherwise.

It doesn't even add up with their own stats when 3.26 was the longest TTT of any QB all year.

If this was the case, it would be easy to review the games and see this. Just one of these.

GOOD GOD YOU GUYS MADE ME DO THIS... advert your eyes Mayo.

I use a sundial to time things and if my calculations are correct that was over 3.4 seconds

Can your sundial tell us how many seconds that was? Let me know and I'll send you my fax number.

Do you receive crow? I'll set his flight pattern. Okay seriously how is sending message by bird not a more advanced technology than what we have today?

2nd time Jimmy mentions weird things in SF, hope the coaches aren't touching him inappropriately

Originally posted by JMC52:
2nd time Jimmy mentions weird things in SF, hope the coaches aren't touching him inappropriately

You try seeing that dude everyday and not touch him.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Jimmy had 33 dropbacks under pressure in the playoffs. Which was 41.3% of all of his drop backs in the playoffs. He went 12 of 27 for 112, 0 td's, 3 int's, 0 BTT's, 4 TWP's, 6.0 ADOT, 2 drops, 3 BAT's, 4 sacks, 2 scrambles, 3.40 TTT, 8 first downs, and a 16.8 passer rating.

That's the one to question.

Lets not cherry pick what fits the individuals narrative. If you have another source that conflicts with Jimmy's TTT under pressure in the playoffs, I am all for it.

Who's cherry picking? I simply said THAT stat doesn't add up. Not you reporting it.

You said that is the one stat to question. To me, that means that all other stats are fine in your opinion except the one that makes your argument about our pass pro in the playoffs invalid.

Using common sense, those other stats make sense. Just that one stood out as very odd. 3.40s is a very long time esp. behind our OL. Anything close to 3.0 is almost always a scrambling QB buying extra time. That ain't Jimmy. LOL. He couldn't buy 1 full second if he tried.

That sounds like more of an opinion than fact. If you have proof to the contrary, I'm all ears.

It would be simple to disprove. Find one set where Jimmy held the ball for 3.40s under pressure. If you can't find one, something is off with that stat. If you can find 33 of them, I'll gladly retract on questioning it. But I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say something is off with that one.

Do you think it's accurate? What were the other playoff QB's? Maybe they use a different operational definition from their regular season metric?

Its not up to me to find the proof. Its on you since you are the one questioning the info provided.

Fine. Here you go.

Wildcard Game.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.76
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/19#yards

Division Championship.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.83
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/20#yards

Division Championship.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 3.14
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/21#yards

It's highly unlikely his 33 pressures averaged 3.40s using the nextgen TT definition.

Like I said, maybe PFF uses a different operational definition to get to that figure.

Those are overall TTT and not while under pressure. When kept clean, his TTT was 2.28 seconds. 3.4 and 2.28 averages to 2.84 seconds.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Jimmy had 33 dropbacks under pressure in the playoffs. Which was 41.3% of all of his drop backs in the playoffs. He went 12 of 27 for 112, 0 td's, 3 int's, 0 BTT's, 4 TWP's, 6.0 ADOT, 2 drops, 3 BAT's, 4 sacks, 2 scrambles, 3.40 TTT, 8 first downs, and a 16.8 passer rating.

That's the one to question.

Lets not cherry pick what fits the individuals narrative. If you have another source that conflicts with Jimmy's TTT under pressure in the playoffs, I am all for it.

Who's cherry picking? I simply said THAT stat doesn't add up. Not you reporting it.

You said that is the one stat to question. To me, that means that all other stats are fine in your opinion except the one that makes your argument about our pass pro in the playoffs invalid.

Using common sense, those other stats make sense. Just that one stood out as very odd. 3.40s is a very long time esp. behind our OL. Anything close to 3.0 is almost always a scrambling QB buying extra time. That ain't Jimmy. LOL. He couldn't buy 1 full second if he tried.

That sounds like more of an opinion than fact. If you have proof to the contrary, I'm all ears.

It would be simple to disprove. Find one set where Jimmy held the ball for 3.40s under pressure. If you can't find one, something is off with that stat. If you can find 33 of them, I'll gladly retract on questioning it. But I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say something is off with that one.

Do you think it's accurate? What were the other playoff QB's? Maybe they use a different operational definition from their regular season metric?

Its not up to me to find the proof. Its on you since you are the one questioning the info provided.

Fine. Here you go.

Wildcard Game.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.76
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/19#yards

Division Championship.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.83
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/20#yards

Division Championship.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 3.14
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/21#yards

It's highly unlikely his 33 pressures averaged 3.40s using the nextgen TT definition.

Like I said, maybe PFF uses a different operational definition to get to that figure.

Those are overall TTT and not while under pressure. When kept clean, his TTT was 2.28 seconds. 3.4 and 2.28 averages to 2.84 seconds.

Right, I'm showing you the overall averages to show you 33 pressures to get to a 3.40s average is incredibly high and highly unlikely. They don't provide the splits by pressures. I will say the 3.14 is a really high average though.

Either way, I didn't want to detract from the points you made as to 'why' it may have been higher, just that that number stood out to me given I've been following TT very closely from the start and new the range of classic pocket passers (esp. old ones) vs. mobile QB's and knew JG's range within that.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by JMC52:
2nd time Jimmy mentions weird things in SF, hope the coaches aren't touching him inappropriately

You try seeing that dude everyday and not touch him.

Down the rabbit hole you go, YAC.

The pass rush got there quickly a few times on the last two offensive possessions in the NFCCG. I have no problem admitting that. But to think that Jimmy was at zero fault for the lack of a passing game in the second half and blaming it all on the O line is a very biased take.

Jimmy is a very solid QB but he relies on a run game to keep defenses honest. I am not saying he doesn't deserve his due credit for the success the offense has had with him under center. His skillset is perfect for Shanahan's offense. But when Shanahan's run game isn't working, especially in the playoffs against the league's top defenses, which can also shut down the underneath routes, this offense is toast.

How do you keep a defense fron crowding the LOS? By beating them over the top a couple times. Most of our deep completions from Jimmy have come off of playaction though. However, playaction doesn't work when the run game isn't productive. Jimmy is slow in setting his feet and winding up to make those deep throws. That is why we typically only see them off of playaction. He needs his entire body to make those throws because he does not have elite arm strength. The top 5 QB's in the league don't need 3 seconds to throw the deep ball. Why? Because its all arm and the ball is out with the flick of a wrist.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by JMC52:
2nd time Jimmy mentions weird things in SF, hope the coaches aren't touching him inappropriately

You try seeing that dude everyday and not touch him.

Lmao

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Jimmy had 33 dropbacks under pressure in the playoffs. Which was 41.3% of all of his drop backs in the playoffs. He went 12 of 27 for 112, 0 td's, 3 int's, 0 BTT's, 4 TWP's, 6.0 ADOT, 2 drops, 3 BAT's, 4 sacks, 2 scrambles, 3.40 TTT, 8 first downs, and a 16.8 passer rating.

That's the one to question.

Lets not cherry pick what fits the individuals narrative. If you have another source that conflicts with Jimmy's TTT under pressure in the playoffs, I am all for it.

Who's cherry picking? I simply said THAT stat doesn't add up. Not you reporting it.

You said that is the one stat to question. To me, that means that all other stats are fine in your opinion except the one that makes your argument about our pass pro in the playoffs invalid.

Using common sense, those other stats make sense. Just that one stood out as very odd. 3.40s is a very long time esp. behind our OL. Anything close to 3.0 is almost always a scrambling QB buying extra time. That ain't Jimmy. LOL. He couldn't buy 1 full second if he tried.

That sounds like more of an opinion than fact. If you have proof to the contrary, I'm all ears.

It would be simple to disprove. Find one set where Jimmy held the ball for 3.40s under pressure. If you can't find one, something is off with that stat. If you can find 33 of them, I'll gladly retract on questioning it. But I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say something is off with that one.

Do you think it's accurate? What were the other playoff QB's? Maybe they use a different operational definition from their regular season metric?

Its not up to me to find the proof. Its on you since you are the one questioning the info provided.

Fine. Here you go.

Wildcard Game.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.76
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/19#yards

Division Championship.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.83
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/20#yards

Division Championship.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 3.14
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/21#yards

It's highly unlikely his 33 pressures averaged 3.40s using the nextgen TT definition.

Like I said, maybe PFF uses a different operational definition to get to that figure.

Those are overall TTT and not while under pressure. When kept clean, his TTT was 2.28 seconds. 3.4 and 2.28 averages to 2.84 seconds.

Right, I'm showing you the overall averages to show you 33 pressures to get to a 3.40s average is incredibly high and highly unlikely. They don't provide the splits by pressures. I will say the 3.14 is a really high average though.

Either way, I didn't want to detract from the points you made as to 'why' it may have been higher, just that that number stood out to me given I've been following TT very closely from the start and new the range of classic pocket passers (esp. old ones) vs. mobile QB's and knew JG's range within that.

Show me the TTT while under pressure in the playoffs from nextgen stats or some other source so we can put this thing to bed.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by thl408:
jd, I missed out on a chunk of pages but wanted to get your thoughts on what Jimmy meant by how things were different in 2017 when he first got on the team and how he was able to throw it around more.

My guess is that in 2017, Jimmy wasn't versed in the schemed up plays in Kyle's playbook - the bootlegs, misdirection leaks, heavy playaction to scheme open a primary, type of plays. It was more read the field, pick a side (concept) to work, and throw it. Basic route concepts (curl/flat, slant/flat, smash, spacing, drive,), very cookie cutter route combinations that work. Because this is what NE did a lot of, spread the field and run basic concepts to each side. QB picks a side of the field based of his presnap read, and throws the ball.

I'm intrigued by Jimmy's recent comments and want to understand what he meant. Sorry this not about the topic of throwing deep so kind of a stray away from this conversation chain.

jd, thoughts?

Well, it's not totally clear. He could me meaning he felt like he was t bound by strict rules of a cohesive gameplan designed to attack certain areas to get certain outcomes to set up certain plays.

They just needed to get yards any way they could.

That's how I interpret it

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Jimmy had 33 dropbacks under pressure in the playoffs. Which was 41.3% of all of his drop backs in the playoffs. He went 12 of 27 for 112, 0 td's, 3 int's, 0 BTT's, 4 TWP's, 6.0 ADOT, 2 drops, 3 BAT's, 4 sacks, 2 scrambles, 3.40 TTT, 8 first downs, and a 16.8 passer rating.

That's the one to question.

Lets not cherry pick what fits the individuals narrative. If you have another source that conflicts with Jimmy's TTT under pressure in the playoffs, I am all for it.

Who's cherry picking? I simply said THAT stat doesn't add up. Not you reporting it.

You said that is the one stat to question. To me, that means that all other stats are fine in your opinion except the one that makes your argument about our pass pro in the playoffs invalid.

Using common sense, those other stats make sense. Just that one stood out as very odd. 3.40s is a very long time esp. behind our OL. Anything close to 3.0 is almost always a scrambling QB buying extra time. That ain't Jimmy. LOL. He couldn't buy 1 full second if he tried.

That sounds like more of an opinion than fact. If you have proof to the contrary, I'm all ears.

It would be simple to disprove. Find one set where Jimmy held the ball for 3.40s under pressure. If you can't find one, something is off with that stat. If you can find 33 of them, I'll gladly retract on questioning it. But I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say something is off with that one.

Do you think it's accurate? What were the other playoff QB's? Maybe they use a different operational definition from their regular season metric?

Its not up to me to find the proof. Its on you since you are the one questioning the info provided.

Fine. Here you go.

Wildcard Game.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.76
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/19#yards

Division Championship.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.83
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/20#yards

Division Championship.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 3.14
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/21#yards

It's highly unlikely his 33 pressures averaged 3.40s using the nextgen TT definition.

Like I said, maybe PFF uses a different operational definition to get to that figure.

Those are overall TTT and not while under pressure. When kept clean, his TTT was 2.28 seconds. 3.4 and 2.28 averages to 2.84 seconds.

Right, I'm showing you the overall averages to show you 33 pressures to get to a 3.40s average is incredibly high and highly unlikely. They don't provide the splits by pressures. I will say the 3.14 is a really high average though.

Either way, I didn't want to detract from the points you made as to 'why' it may have been higher, just that that number stood out to me given I've been following TT very closely from the start and new the range of classic pocket passers (esp. old ones) vs. mobile QB's and knew JG's range within that.

Show me the TTT while under pressure in the playoffs from nextgen stats or some other source so we can put this thing to bed.

Nextgen doesn't provide splits. Or if they do, I don't know how to access it; maybe a pay service.

You're using PFF, right?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Jimmy had 33 dropbacks under pressure in the playoffs. Which was 41.3% of all of his drop backs in the playoffs. He went 12 of 27 for 112, 0 td's, 3 int's, 0 BTT's, 4 TWP's, 6.0 ADOT, 2 drops, 3 BAT's, 4 sacks, 2 scrambles, 3.40 TTT, 8 first downs, and a 16.8 passer rating.

That's the one to question.

Lets not cherry pick what fits the individuals narrative. If you have another source that conflicts with Jimmy's TTT under pressure in the playoffs, I am all for it.

Who's cherry picking? I simply said THAT stat doesn't add up. Not you reporting it.

You said that is the one stat to question. To me, that means that all other stats are fine in your opinion except the one that makes your argument about our pass pro in the playoffs invalid.

Using common sense, those other stats make sense. Just that one stood out as very odd. 3.40s is a very long time esp. behind our OL. Anything close to 3.0 is almost always a scrambling QB buying extra time. That ain't Jimmy. LOL. He couldn't buy 1 full second if he tried.

That sounds like more of an opinion than fact. If you have proof to the contrary, I'm all ears.

It would be simple to disprove. Find one set where Jimmy held the ball for 3.40s under pressure. If you can't find one, something is off with that stat. If you can find 33 of them, I'll gladly retract on questioning it. But I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say something is off with that one.

Do you think it's accurate? What were the other playoff QB's? Maybe they use a different operational definition from their regular season metric?

Its not up to me to find the proof. Its on you since you are the one questioning the info provided.

Fine. Here you go.

Wildcard Game.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.76
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/19#yards

Division Championship.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.83
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/20#yards

Division Championship.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 3.14
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/21#yards

It's highly unlikely his 33 pressures averaged 3.40s using the nextgen TT definition.

Like I said, maybe PFF uses a different operational definition to get to that figure.

Those are overall TTT and not while under pressure. When kept clean, his TTT was 2.28 seconds. 3.4 and 2.28 averages to 2.84 seconds.

Right, I'm showing you the overall averages to show you 33 pressures to get to a 3.40s average is incredibly high and highly unlikely. They don't provide the splits by pressures. I will say the 3.14 is a really high average though.

Either way, I didn't want to detract from the points you made as to 'why' it may have been higher, just that that number stood out to me given I've been following TT very closely from the start and new the range of classic pocket passers (esp. old ones) vs. mobile QB's and knew JG's range within that.

Show me the TTT while under pressure in the playoffs from nextgen stats or some other source so we can put this thing to bed.

Nextgen doesn't provide splits. Or if they do, I don't know how to access it; maybe a pay service.

You're using PFF, right?

Yes. They have the splits. I gave you pff's splits. When "kept clean" he was at 2.28 TTT and "under pressure" he was at 3.40 TTT. That is an average of 2.84 TTT. If you don't agree with the splits on that stat from pff than you are going to have to provide the same splits from another source.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
The pass rush got there quickly a few times on the last two offensive possessions in the NFCCG. I have no problem admitting that. But to think that Jimmy was at zero fault for the lack of a passing game in the second half and blaming it all on the O line is a very biased take.

Jimmy is a very solid QB but he relies on a run game to keep defenses honest. I am not saying he doesn't deserve his due credit for the success the offense has had with him under center. His skillset is perfect for Shanahan's offense. But when Shanahan's run game isn't working, especially in the playoffs against the league's top defenses, which can also shut down the underneath routes, this offense is toast.

How do you keep a defense fron crowding the LOS? By beating them over the top a couple times. Most of our deep completions from Jimmy have come off of playaction though. However, playaction doesn't work when the run game isn't productive. Jimmy is slow in setting his feet and winding up to make those deep throws. That is why we typically only see them off of playaction. He needs his entire body to make those throws because he does not have elite arm strength. The top 5 QB's in the league don't need 3 seconds to throw the deep ball. Why? Because its all arm and the ball is out with the flick of a wrist.

As per the crowding thing, a lot of what we were seeing was matching 4 defenses, a la Fangio. Sherm just talked the other day how the league is trending back toward the Fangio style scheme and away from the "Seattle 3".

We played a lot more last game. It seems to be a reaction to the spread of the Shanahan offense as it provides a good counter to the wide zone. This "crowding" people talk about, I've seen happen to the Rams, the Browns, the Vikings, the Packers.

It's not about 3 seconds to wind up and throws its 3 seconds for your receivers to get down field or beat their press. What about Aiyuk in that last game showed you he's capable of beating press man?

Jimmy took 3 shots to him, he was blanketed every time by the meh corners of Seattle. I don't know about you, but I sure don't feel comfortable with testing Ramsey deep with Aiyuk from what we've seen. He's best with the ball in his hands, in space. This is part of that personnel thing Kyle talked about.ir did yall wanna see Jimmy throw to Aiyuk deep on the regular? He hit him early with a dime in thr NFCCG and it didn't change how LA played defense at all.