Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Yes. They have the splits. I gave you pff's splits. When "kept clean" he was at 2.28 TTT and "under pressure" he was at 3.40 TTT. That is an average of 2.84 TTT. If you don't agree with the splits on that stat from pff than you are going to have to provide the same splits from another source.

On NC behalf

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Jimmy had 33 dropbacks under pressure in the playoffs. Which was 41.3% of all of his drop backs in the playoffs. He went 12 of 27 for 112, 0 td's, 3 int's, 0 BTT's, 4 TWP's, 6.0 ADOT, 2 drops, 3 BAT's, 4 sacks, 2 scrambles, 3.40 TTT, 8 first downs, and a 16.8 passer rating.

That's the one to question.

Lets not cherry pick what fits the individuals narrative. If you have another source that conflicts with Jimmy's TTT under pressure in the playoffs, I am all for it.

Who's cherry picking? I simply said THAT stat doesn't add up. Not you reporting it.

You said that is the one stat to question. To me, that means that all other stats are fine in your opinion except the one that makes your argument about our pass pro in the playoffs invalid.

Using common sense, those other stats make sense. Just that one stood out as very odd. 3.40s is a very long time esp. behind our OL. Anything close to 3.0 is almost always a scrambling QB buying extra time. That ain't Jimmy. LOL. He couldn't buy 1 full second if he tried.

That sounds like more of an opinion than fact. If you have proof to the contrary, I'm all ears.

It would be simple to disprove. Find one set where Jimmy held the ball for 3.40s under pressure. If you can't find one, something is off with that stat. If you can find 33 of them, I'll gladly retract on questioning it. But I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say something is off with that one.

Do you think it's accurate? What were the other playoff QB's? Maybe they use a different operational definition from their regular season metric?

Its not up to me to find the proof. Its on you since you are the one questioning the info provided.

Fine. Here you go.

Wildcard Game.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.76
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/19#yards

Division Championship.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.83
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/20#yards

Division Championship.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 3.14
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/21#yards

It's highly unlikely his 33 pressures averaged 3.40s using the nextgen TT definition.

Like I said, maybe PFF uses a different operational definition to get to that figure.

Those are overall TTT and not while under pressure. When kept clean, his TTT was 2.28 seconds. 3.4 and 2.28 averages to 2.84 seconds.

Right, I'm showing you the overall averages to show you 33 pressures to get to a 3.40s average is incredibly high and highly unlikely. They don't provide the splits by pressures. I will say the 3.14 is a really high average though.

Either way, I didn't want to detract from the points you made as to 'why' it may have been higher, just that that number stood out to me given I've been following TT very closely from the start and new the range of classic pocket passers (esp. old ones) vs. mobile QB's and knew JG's range within that.

Show me the TTT while under pressure in the playoffs from nextgen stats or some other source so we can put this thing to bed.

Nextgen doesn't provide splits. Or if they do, I don't know how to access it; maybe a pay service.

You're using PFF, right?

Yes. They have the splits. I gave you pff's splits. When "kept clean" he was at 2.28 TTT and "under pressure" he was at 3.40 TTT. That is an average of 2.84 TTT. If you don't agree with the splits on that stat from pff than you are going to have to provide the same splits from another source.

That's why TTT while under pressure is a flawed stat. Doesn't really tell you how quickly the pressure was getting there. If the qb is pressured at 2 seconds, bails and throws it away or to a receiver, that will skew it up.

Or if he runs around for 6-7 seconds on one pressure, that can skew the ttt way higher.

I'd like to see if there's any time to pressure stats

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Jimmy had 33 dropbacks under pressure in the playoffs. Which was 41.3% of all of his drop backs in the playoffs. He went 12 of 27 for 112, 0 td's, 3 int's, 0 BTT's, 4 TWP's, 6.0 ADOT, 2 drops, 3 BAT's, 4 sacks, 2 scrambles, 3.40 TTT, 8 first downs, and a 16.8 passer rating.

That's the one to question.

Lets not cherry pick what fits the individuals narrative. If you have another source that conflicts with Jimmy's TTT under pressure in the playoffs, I am all for it.

Who's cherry picking? I simply said THAT stat doesn't add up. Not you reporting it.

You said that is the one stat to question. To me, that means that all other stats are fine in your opinion except the one that makes your argument about our pass pro in the playoffs invalid.

Using common sense, those other stats make sense. Just that one stood out as very odd. 3.40s is a very long time esp. behind our OL. Anything close to 3.0 is almost always a scrambling QB buying extra time. That ain't Jimmy. LOL. He couldn't buy 1 full second if he tried.

That sounds like more of an opinion than fact. If you have proof to the contrary, I'm all ears.

It would be simple to disprove. Find one set where Jimmy held the ball for 3.40s under pressure. If you can't find one, something is off with that stat. If you can find 33 of them, I'll gladly retract on questioning it. But I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say something is off with that one.

Do you think it's accurate? What were the other playoff QB's? Maybe they use a different operational definition from their regular season metric?

Its not up to me to find the proof. Its on you since you are the one questioning the info provided.

Fine. Here you go.

Wildcard Game.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.76
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/19#yards

Division Championship.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.83
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/20#yards

Division Championship.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 3.14
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/21#yards

It's highly unlikely his 33 pressures averaged 3.40s using the nextgen TT definition.

Like I said, maybe PFF uses a different operational definition to get to that figure.

Those are overall TTT and not while under pressure. When kept clean, his TTT was 2.28 seconds. 3.4 and 2.28 averages to 2.84 seconds.

Right, I'm showing you the overall averages to show you 33 pressures to get to a 3.40s average is incredibly high and highly unlikely. They don't provide the splits by pressures. I will say the 3.14 is a really high average though.

Either way, I didn't want to detract from the points you made as to 'why' it may have been higher, just that that number stood out to me given I've been following TT very closely from the start and new the range of classic pocket passers (esp. old ones) vs. mobile QB's and knew JG's range within that.

Show me the TTT while under pressure in the playoffs from nextgen stats or some other source so we can put this thing to bed.

Nextgen doesn't provide splits. Or if they do, I don't know how to access it; maybe a pay service.

You're using PFF, right?

Yes. They have the splits. I gave you pff's splits. When "kept clean" he was at 2.28 TTT and "under pressure" he was at 3.40 TTT. That is an average of 2.84 TTT. If you don't agree with the splits on that stat than you are going to have to provide the splits from another source.

That's perfectly fine. No issues with that. I have always used nextgen so you don't see averages that high. That's why it stood out to me. There's probably some differences in how each site operationally defines TT. No biggie. That's the first time I've seen PFF referencing that stat so it stood out to me. Wish I could access the splits for you.

Either way, appreciate the stats.

What's most important is the wide swing in splits. And you had several thoughts on the reasons for that that were great.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
As per the crowding thing, a lot of what we were seeing was matching 4 defenses, a la Fangio. Sherm just talked the other day how the league is trending back toward the Fangio style scheme and away from the "Seattle 3".

We played a lot more last game. It seems to be a reaction to the spread of the Shanahan offense as it provides a good counter to the wide zone. This "crowding" people talk about, I've seen happen to the Rams, the Browns, the Vikings, the Packers.

It's not about 3 seconds to wind up and throws its 3 seconds for your receivers to get down field or beat their press. What about Aiyuk in that last game showed you he's capable of beating press man?

Jimmy took 3 shots to him, he was blanketed every time by the meh corners of Seattle. I don't know about you, but I sure don't feel comfortable with testing Ramsey deep with Aiyuk from what we've seen. He's best with the ball in his hands, in space. This is part of that personnel thing Kyle talked about.ir did yall wanna see Jimmy throw to Aiyuk deep on the regular? He hit him early with a dime in thr NFCCG and it didn't change how LA played defense at all.

Don't have to throw it against Ramsay. How about one of their crap safeties or their other corner.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Yes. They have the splits. I gave you pff's splits. When "kept clean" he was at 2.28 TTT and "under pressure" he was at 3.40 TTT. That is an average of 2.84 TTT. If you don't agree with the splits on that stat from pff than you are going to have to provide the same splits from another source.

On NC behalf

That was PFF...no issues with their stats. It's all in how 'they' define it.

Just as long as it's consistent.

It'd be cool to see the other playoff QB's based on their OD.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Yes. They have the splits. I gave you pff's splits. When "kept clean" he was at 2.28 TTT and "under pressure" he was at 3.40 TTT. That is an average of 2.84 TTT. If you don't agree with the splits on that stat from pff than you are going to have to provide the same splits from another source.

On NC behalf

That was PFF...no issues with their stats. It's all in how 'they' define it.

Just as long as it's consistent.

It'd be cool to see the other playoff QB's based on their OD.

I love the zone. Everyones after that sad gotcha moment. LMAO

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Yes. They have the splits. I gave you pff's splits. When "kept clean" he was at 2.28 TTT and "under pressure" he was at 3.40 TTT. That is an average of 2.84 TTT. If you don't agree with the splits on that stat from pff than you are going to have to provide the same splits from another source.

On NC behalf

That was PFF...no issues with their stats. It's all in how 'they' define it.

Just as long as it's consistent.

It'd be cool to see the other playoff QB's based on their OD.

how about avg both and we probaly get something more accurate

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Jimmy had 33 dropbacks under pressure in the playoffs. Which was 41.3% of all of his drop backs in the playoffs. He went 12 of 27 for 112, 0 td's, 3 int's, 0 BTT's, 4 TWP's, 6.0 ADOT, 2 drops, 3 BAT's, 4 sacks, 2 scrambles, 3.40 TTT, 8 first downs, and a 16.8 passer rating.

That's the one to question.

Lets not cherry pick what fits the individuals narrative. If you have another source that conflicts with Jimmy's TTT under pressure in the playoffs, I am all for it.

Who's cherry picking? I simply said THAT stat doesn't add up. Not you reporting it.

You said that is the one stat to question. To me, that means that all other stats are fine in your opinion except the one that makes your argument about our pass pro in the playoffs invalid.

Using common sense, those other stats make sense. Just that one stood out as very odd. 3.40s is a very long time esp. behind our OL. Anything close to 3.0 is almost always a scrambling QB buying extra time. That ain't Jimmy. LOL. He couldn't buy 1 full second if he tried.

That sounds like more of an opinion than fact. If you have proof to the contrary, I'm all ears.

It would be simple to disprove. Find one set where Jimmy held the ball for 3.40s under pressure. If you can't find one, something is off with that stat. If you can find 33 of them, I'll gladly retract on questioning it. But I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say something is off with that one.

Do you think it's accurate? What were the other playoff QB's? Maybe they use a different operational definition from their regular season metric?

Its not up to me to find the proof. Its on you since you are the one questioning the info provided.

Fine. Here you go.

Wildcard Game.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.76
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/19#yards

Division Championship.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.83
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/20#yards

Division Championship.
Jimmy Garoppolo = 3.14
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/21#yards

It's highly unlikely his 33 pressures averaged 3.40s using the nextgen TT definition.

Like I said, maybe PFF uses a different operational definition to get to that figure.

Those are overall TTT and not while under pressure. When kept clean, his TTT was 2.28 seconds. 3.4 and 2.28 averages to 2.84 seconds.

Right, I'm showing you the overall averages to show you 33 pressures to get to a 3.40s average is incredibly high and highly unlikely. They don't provide the splits by pressures. I will say the 3.14 is a really high average though.

Either way, I didn't want to detract from the points you made as to 'why' it may have been higher, just that that number stood out to me given I've been following TT very closely from the start and new the range of classic pocket passers (esp. old ones) vs. mobile QB's and knew JG's range within that.

Show me the TTT while under pressure in the playoffs from nextgen stats or some other source so we can put this thing to bed.

Nextgen doesn't provide splits. Or if they do, I don't know how to access it; maybe a pay service.

You're using PFF, right?

Yes. They have the splits. I gave you pff's splits. When "kept clean" he was at 2.28 TTT and "under pressure" he was at 3.40 TTT. That is an average of 2.84 TTT. If you don't agree with the splits on that stat from pff than you are going to have to provide the same splits from another source.

That's why TTT while under pressure is a flawed stat. Doesn't really tell you how quickly the pressure was getting there. If the qb is pressured at 2 seconds, bails and throws it away or to a receiver, that will skew it up.

Or if he runs around for 6-7 seconds on one pressure, that can skew the ttt way higher.

I'd like to see if there's any time to pressure stats

There you go. That'll be in the next,NEXTgen stats someday. LOL

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Yes. They have the splits. I gave you pff's splits. When "kept clean" he was at 2.28 TTT and "under pressure" he was at 3.40 TTT. That is an average of 2.84 TTT. If you don't agree with the splits on that stat from pff than you are going to have to provide the same splits from another source.

On NC behalf

That was PFF...no issues with their stats. It's all in how 'they' define it.

Just as long as it's consistent.

It'd be cool to see the other playoff QB's based on their OD.

how about avg both and we probaly get something more accurate

Why not? I wish I could get those splits for him. I'd be more curious to see the differentials.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
The pass rush got there quickly a few times on the last two offensive possessions in the NFCCG. I have no problem admitting that. But to think that Jimmy was at zero fault for the lack of a passing game in the second half and blaming it all on the O line is a very biased take.

Jimmy is a very solid QB but he relies on a run game to keep defenses honest. I am not saying he doesn't deserve his due credit for the success the offense has had with him under center. His skillset is perfect for Shanahan's offense. But when Shanahan's run game isn't working, especially in the playoffs against the league's top defenses, which can also shut down the underneath routes, this offense is toast.

How do you keep a defense fron crowding the LOS? By beating them over the top a couple times. Most of our deep completions from Jimmy have come off of playaction though. However, playaction doesn't work when the run game isn't productive. Jimmy is slow in setting his feet and winding up to make those deep throws. That is why we typically only see them off of playaction. He needs his entire body to make those throws because he does not have elite arm strength. The top 5 QB's in the league don't need 3 seconds to throw the deep ball. Why? Because its all arm and the ball is out with the flick of a wrist.

As per the crowding thing, a lot of what we were seeing was matching 4 defenses, a la Fangio. Sherm just talked the other day how the league is trending back toward the Fangio style scheme and away from the "Seattle 3".

We played a lot more last game. It seems to be a reaction to the spread of the Shanahan offense as it provides a good counter to the wide zone. This "crowding" people talk about, I've seen happen to the Rams, the Browns, the Vikings, the Packers.

It's not about 3 seconds to wind up and throws its 3 seconds for your receivers to get down field or beat their press. What about Aiyuk in that last game showed you he's capable of beating press man?

Jimmy took 3 shots to him, he was blanketed every time by the meh corners of Seattle. I don't know about you, but I sure don't feel comfortable with testing Ramsey deep with Aiyuk from what we've seen. He's best with the ball in his hands, in space. This is part of that personnel thing Kyle talked about.ir did yall wanna see Jimmy throw to Aiyuk deep on the regular? He hit him early with a dime in thr NFCCG and it didn't change how LA played defense at all.

I am glad that you mentioned Aiyuk. Aiyuk's biggest strengths are his strong hands and his ability to high point the ball. None of those throws to Aiyuk in the Seattle game were high balls. 2 of the 3 shots to him were severly under thrown. The 3rd one that was low and to the outside was all on Aiyuk for dropping it.

There were a handful of plays that were posted on here in the off season that showed there were opportunities to be had. But Jimmy either failed to see the open receiver(s) or refused to push the ball. Perhaps because of his shoulder.

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Yes. They have the splits. I gave you pff's splits. When "kept clean" he was at 2.28 TTT and "under pressure" he was at 3.40 TTT. That is an average of 2.84 TTT. If you don't agree with the splits on that stat from pff than you are going to have to provide the same splits from another source.

On NC behalf

That was PFF...no issues with their stats. It's all in how 'they' define it.

Just as long as it's consistent.

It'd be cool to see the other playoff QB's based on their OD.

I love the zone. Everyones after that sad gotcha moment. LMAO

I guess. It simply started with me noting a stat seemed off and then the usual sharks jumped in. LOL

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Yes. They have the splits. I gave you pff's splits. When "kept clean" he was at 2.28 TTT and "under pressure" he was at 3.40 TTT. That is an average of 2.84 TTT. If you don't agree with the splits on that stat from pff than you are going to have to provide the same splits from another source.

On NC behalf

That was PFF...no issues with their stats. It's all in how 'they' define it.

Just as long as it's consistent.

It'd be cool to see the other playoff QB's based on their OD.

how about avg both and we probaly get something more accurate

I did average both. I posted it twice already.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Yes. They have the splits. I gave you pff's splits. When "kept clean" he was at 2.28 TTT and "under pressure" he was at 3.40 TTT. That is an average of 2.84 TTT. If you don't agree with the splits on that stat from pff than you are going to have to provide the same splits from another source.

On NC behalf

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Yes. They have the splits. I gave you pff's splits. When "kept clean" he was at 2.28 TTT and "under pressure" he was at 3.40 TTT. That is an average of 2.84 TTT. If you don't agree with the splits on that stat from pff than you are going to have to provide the same splits from another source.

On NC behalf

That was PFF...no issues with their stats. It's all in how 'they' define it.

Just as long as it's consistent.

It'd be cool to see the other playoff QB's based on their OD.

how about avg both and we probaly get something more accurate

I did average both. I posted it twice already.

next gen and PFF together ?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Yes. They have the splits. I gave you pff's splits. When "kept clean" he was at 2.28 TTT and "under pressure" he was at 3.40 TTT. That is an average of 2.84 TTT. If you don't agree with the splits on that stat from pff than you are going to have to provide the same splits from another source.

On NC behalf

That was PFF...no issues with their stats. It's all in how 'they' define it.

Just as long as it's consistent.

It'd be cool to see the other playoff QB's based on their OD.

Joe Burrow was at 3.30 TTT while under pressure in the playoffs according to pff. Matthew Stafford was at 3.04 TTT in the same category. I can can chart them all for you NC. Do you want all 4 splits? That would be kept clean, under pressure, no blitz and blitz passing splits for all playoff QB's. Give me until tomorrow and I can provide them, no problem.

I hope I get rewarded something like your HOF tag for all this hard work I do.