Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by BangBang49er:
Why is Mahomes moving out of the pocket when he has 5 seconds before he has to throw?

I don't know if I can explain it any more simple than I just did. Let me sit on it a few.

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
But he was only under pressure 29.7% of his dropbacks. Plus Mahomes is known for extending plays with his legs. Look at all the mobile QB's in my chart. Jimmy is not mobile. So like I said yesterday, was he running around for his life on 41% of his dropbacks or was he holding the ball too long?

I had a longer post, even using paragraphs, but didn't bother to post it. Just too long.

The issue I have is, perhaps, with the operational parameters being used. In the case of PM, he has 4.9 seconds in the under pressure category. How is that number determined? I know you have said mobile QBs are extending plays. Granted. In that case, when they are moving around, scrambling, what have you, is that not considered under pressure?

Sorry man. I have gone back a few pages, through what you and NC were saying, but I still find the way these terms are being used / defined to be, not flawed, per se, but lacking clarity maybe?

I agree. It's obvious nextgen and PFF have different parameters in trying to break these out. And that's fine. At least they're trying. It was very helpful to see all the numbers together though.

Originally posted by Polkadots:
And let me add something in a new post.

Are they determining the UP TTT by the total play time? In other words, is UP the total play time from start to pass thrown? Or do they start the UP clock once pressure arrives? In other words, prior to pressure the play is considered KC TTT, once pressure arrives UP, etc.

This is what random said about Jimmy he

"had an average of 3.4 seconds to throw before the pressure came."

So Mahomes "had an average of 5 seconds to throw before the pressure came"

It's impossible... But maybe im too far ahead of myself as I don't buy the numbers.

Originally posted by Polkadots:
And let me add something in a new post.

Are they determining the UP TTT by the total play time? In other words, is UP the total play time from start to pass thrown? Or do they start the UP clock once pressure arrives? In other words, prior to pressure the play is considered KC TTT, once pressure arrives UP, etc.

TTT starts the moment the ball is snapped.

Originally posted by Polkadots:
And let me add something in a new post.

Are they determining the UP TTT by the total play time? In other words, is UP the total play time from start to pass thrown? Or do they start the UP clock once pressure arrives? In other words, prior to pressure the play is considered KC TTT, once pressure arrives UP, etc.

That's what I was wondering too.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
But he was only under pressure 29.7% of his dropbacks. Plus Mahomes is known for extending plays with his legs. Look at all the mobile QB's in my chart. Jimmy is not mobile. So like I said yesterday, was he running around for his life on 41% of his dropbacks or was he holding the ball too long?

I had a longer post, even using paragraphs, but didn't bother to post it. Just too long.

The issue I have is, perhaps, with the operational parameters being used. In the case of PM, he has 4.9 seconds in the under pressure category. How is that number determined? I know you have said mobile QBs are extending plays. Granted. In that case, when they are moving around, scrambling, what have you, is that not considered under pressure?

Sorry man. I have gone back a few pages, through what you and NC were saying, but I still find the way these terms are being used / defined to be, not flawed, per se, but lacking clarity maybe?

I agree. It's obvious nextgen and PFF have different parameters in trying to break these out. And that's fine. At least they're trying. It was very helpful to see all the numbers together though.

I'd love for the community to start digging deeper into these stats. To me, it makes for much more quality debate and conversation in here.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
PR= pressure rate
KC= kept clean TTT
UP= under pressure TTT
NB= not blitzed TTT
WB= when blitzed TTT

Great s**t. OK, stacked up with the others, that 3.40s makes a bit more sense in how they opererationalize it. Thanks so much for this YAC. You're a HOFer in my book!

Let's be real NC. You don't read books.

I read the WZ which mirrors life and it talks back to you. Books? Ain't nobody got time for dat.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
TTT starts the moment the ball is snapped.

Okay. And this makes perfect sense. It's how I interpreted it.

So then, KC would be any play where the QB throws the ball before pressure arrives, yes? But when it comes to UP, if the QB escapes the pocket, and then does a PM or RW thing, extending the play for like eight seconds, this would up the UP time considerably (on average), yes? Perhaps this is why, and I think you said it in response to Bang on 8518 or so, the 4.9 UP time for PM is what it is.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
But he was only under pressure 29.7% of his dropbacks. Plus Mahomes is known for extending plays with his legs. Look at all the mobile QB's in my chart. Jimmy is not mobile. So like I said yesterday, was he running around for his life on 41% of his dropbacks or was he holding the ball too long?

I had a longer post, even using paragraphs, but didn't bother to post it. Just too long.

The issue I have is, perhaps, with the operational parameters being used. In the case of PM, he has 4.9 seconds in the under pressure category. How is that number determined? I know you have said mobile QBs are extending plays. Granted. In that case, when they are moving around, scrambling, what have you, is that not considered under pressure?

Sorry man. I have gone back a few pages, through what you and NC were saying, but I still find the way these terms are being used / defined to be, not flawed, per se, but lacking clarity maybe?

I agree. It's obvious nextgen and PFF have different parameters in trying to break these out. And that's fine. At least they're trying. It was very helpful to see all the numbers together though.

I'd love for the community to start digging deeper into these stats. To me, it makes for much more quality debate and conversation in here.

Absolutely. And that's the way it should be. If nothing else, it makes for great discussions. I'm not on Twitter anymore but used to be cool with Jeff Deeney from PFF. Maybe someone can reach out and ask for the operational definitions of these.

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
TTT starts the moment the ball is snapped.

Okay. And this makes perfect sense. It's how I interpreted it.

So then, KC would be any play where the QB throws the ball before pressure arrives, yes? But when it comes to UP, if the QB escapes the pocket, and then does a PM or RW thing, extending the play for like eight seconds, this would up the UP time considerably (on average), yes? Perhaps this is why, and I think you said it in response to Bang on 8518 or so, the 4.9 UP time for PM is what it is.

Yes. That is how I interpret it. I am wondering what the cutoff is for scrambles? Is it when the QB passes the LOS?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
But he was only under pressure 29.7% of his dropbacks. Plus Mahomes is known for extending plays with his legs. Look at all the mobile QB's in my chart. Jimmy is not mobile. So like I said yesterday, was he running around for his life on 41% of his dropbacks or was he holding the ball too long?

I had a longer post, even using paragraphs, but didn't bother to post it. Just too long.

The issue I have is, perhaps, with the operational parameters being used. In the case of PM, he has 4.9 seconds in the under pressure category. How is that number determined? I know you have said mobile QBs are extending plays. Granted. In that case, when they are moving around, scrambling, what have you, is that not considered under pressure?

Sorry man. I have gone back a few pages, through what you and NC were saying, but I still find the way these terms are being used / defined to be, not flawed, per se, but lacking clarity maybe?

I agree. It's obvious nextgen and PFF have different parameters in trying to break these out. And that's fine. At least they're trying. It was very helpful to see all the numbers together though.

I'd love for the community to start digging deeper into these stats. To me, it makes for much more quality debate and conversation in here.

Absolutely. And that's the way it should be. If nothing else, it makes for great discussions. I'm not on Twitter anymore but used to be cool with Jeff Deeney from PFF. Maybe someone can reach out and ask for the operational definitions of these.

I can reach out to him.

And if we look at the data, would it be fair to say, 60% of the time, JG had an average of 2.3 seconds to throw the ball (KC time)? But 40% of the time he had, what? Because I am not seeing where the cut is being made. Did JG have 3.4 seconds to throw before pressure arrived? Because that definition would be problematic for the PM 4.9 UP time, since the extension of the play due to his mobilty would be post the UP time cut off established for JG.

The latter part, having to do with UP, is where I wish there was a different stat. I think jd or thl asked for something a few pages back. Something that would define plays that result in a negative play as, "QB x had y time to throw, but due to a, b, or c, failed to, thus resulting in m, n, o." I know that's a lot of variables.

Originally posted by Polkadots:
And if we look at the data, would it be fair to say, 60% of the time, JG had an average of 2.3 seconds to throw the ball (KC time)? But 40% of the time he had, what? Because I am not seeing where the cut is being made. Did JG have 3.4 seconds to throw before pressure arrived? Because that definition would be problematic for the PM 4.9 UP time, since the extension of the play due to his mobilty would be post the UP time cut off established for JG.

The latter part, having to do with UP, is where I wish there was a different stat. I think jd or thl asked for something a few pages back. Something that would define plays that result in a negative play as, "QB x had y time to throw, but due to a, b, or c, failed to, thus resulting in m, n, o." I know that's a lot of variables.

This is what he said. I'm not trying to obtuse but i'm not sure what he meant by this speaking UP.

"Jimmy had an average of 3.4 seconds to throw before the pressure came."

That's where i'm confused because there is no possible way. To think Mahomes had 5 seconds.

Top of post last page.

Originally posted by Polkadots:
And if we look at the data, would it be fair to say, 60% of the time, JG had an average of 2.3 seconds to throw the ball (KC time)? But 40% of the time he had, what? Because I am not seeing where the cut is being made. Did JG have 3.4 seconds to throw before pressure arrived? Because that definition would be problematic for the PM 4.9 UP time, since the extension of the play due to his mobilty would be post the UP time cut off established for JG.

The latter part, having to do with UP, is where I wish there was a different stat. I think jd or thl asked for something a few pages back. Something that would define plays that result in a negative play as, "QB x had y time to throw, but due to a, b, or c, failed to, thus resulting in m, n, o." I know that's a lot of variables.

It is and would be awesome to have that type of data. Who's ready to create a NFL stats start up company with me?

I am not here to drive a narrative. I just draw conclusions from observing the game being played and the data attached to that game. If others would like to take a shot at coming up with a better interpretation for the data, I'm all ears.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
But he was only under pressure 29.7% of his dropbacks. Plus Mahomes is known for extending plays with his legs. Look at all the mobile QB's in my chart. Jimmy is not mobile. So like I said yesterday, was he running around for his life on 41% of his dropbacks or was he holding the ball too long?

I had a longer post, even using paragraphs, but didn't bother to post it. Just too long.

The issue I have is, perhaps, with the operational parameters being used. In the case of PM, he has 4.9 seconds in the under pressure category. How is that number determined? I know you have said mobile QBs are extending plays. Granted. In that case, when they are moving around, scrambling, what have you, is that not considered under pressure?

Sorry man. I have gone back a few pages, through what you and NC were saying, but I still find the way these terms are being used / defined to be, not flawed, per se, but lacking clarity maybe?

I agree. It's obvious nextgen and PFF have different parameters in trying to break these out. And that's fine. At least they're trying. It was very helpful to see all the numbers together though.

I'd love for the community to start digging deeper into these stats. To me, it makes for much more quality debate and conversation in here.

Absolutely. And that's the way it should be. If nothing else, it makes for great discussions. I'm not on Twitter anymore but used to be cool with Jeff Deeney from PFF. Maybe someone can reach out and ask for the operational definitions of these.

I can reach out to him.

Tell him NCommand sent you. LOL