Originally posted by Polkadots:
And if we look at the data, would it be fair to say, 60% of the time, JG had an average of 2.3 seconds to throw the ball (KC time)? But 40% of the time he had, what? Because I am not seeing where the cut is being made. Did JG have 3.4 seconds to throw before pressure arrived? Because that definition would be problematic for the PM 4.9 UP time, since the extension of the play due to his mobilty would be post the UP time cut off established for JG.
The latter part, having to do with UP, is where I wish there was a different stat. I think jd or thl asked for something a few pages back. Something that would define plays that result in a negative play as, "QB x had y time to throw, but due to a, b, or c, failed to, thus resulting in m, n, o." I know that's a lot of variables.
This is what he said. I'm not trying to obtuse but i'm not sure what he meant by this speaking UP.
"Jimmy had an average of 3.4 seconds to throw before the pressure came."
That's where i'm confused because there is no possible way. To think Mahomes had 5 seconds.
Top of post last page.
Yes. Jimmy had an average of 3.4 seconds before he had to throw it or take a sack.
[ Edited by YACBros85 on Sep 23, 2022 at 5:17 PM ]
I think Jimmy G has got a bit of a point guard mentality. Good or bad. I don't know what it is but there is something about Jimmy G where I think he thrives in "freedom" in variety of ways like 2017 where he somewhat calls his own plays or the "freedom" from the chaos of a no huddle offense and calling plays on the go, or just straight up spread formation.
Originally posted by Polkadots:
And if we look at the data, would it be fair to say, 60% of the time, JG had an average of 2.3 seconds to throw the ball (KC time)? But 40% of the time he had, what? Because I am not seeing where the cut is being made. Did JG have 3.4 seconds to throw before pressure arrived? Because that definition would be problematic for the PM 4.9 UP time, since the extension of the play due to his mobilty would be post the UP time cut off established for JG.
The latter part, having to do with UP, is where I wish there was a different stat. I think jd or thl asked for something a few pages back. Something that would define plays that result in a negative play as, "QB x had y time to throw, but due to a, b, or c, failed to, thus resulting in m, n, o." I know that's a lot of variables.
This is what he said. I'm not trying to obtuse but i'm not sure what he meant by this speaking UP.
"Jimmy had an average of 3.4 seconds to throw before the pressure came."
That's where i'm confused because there is no possible way. To think Mahomes had 5 seconds.
Top of post last page.
Yes. Jimmy had an average of 3.4 seconds before he had to throw it or take a sack.
I don't buy that Mahomes had 5 seconds on slightly less than 30% of his passes and i quote "before the pressure came" but I think we're at a standstill here.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think your numbers are tremendously flawed.
[ Edited by BangBang49er on Sep 23, 2022 at 5:23 PM ]
Originally posted by Polkadots:
And if we look at the data, would it be fair to say, 60% of the time, JG had an average of 2.3 seconds to throw the ball (KC time)? But 40% of the time he had, what? Because I am not seeing where the cut is being made. Did JG have 3.4 seconds to throw before pressure arrived? Because that definition would be problematic for the PM 4.9 UP time, since the extension of the play due to his mobilty would be post the UP time cut off established for JG.
The latter part, having to do with UP, is where I wish there was a different stat. I think jd or thl asked for something a few pages back. Something that would define plays that result in a negative play as, "QB x had y time to throw, but due to a, b, or c, failed to, thus resulting in m, n, o." I know that's a lot of variables.
This is what he said. I'm not trying to obtuse but i'm not sure what he meant by this speaking UP.
"Jimmy had an average of 3.4 seconds to throw before the pressure came."
That's where i'm confused because there is no possible way. To think Mahomes had 5 seconds.
Top of post last page.
Yes. Jimmy had an average of 3.4 seconds before he had to throw it or take a sack.
I don't buy that Mahomes had 5 on slightly less than30% of his passes and i quote "before the pressure came" but I think were at a standstill here.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think your numbers are tremendously flawed.
Those are not my numbers and unless you can prove that those numbers are wrong, I couldn't care less.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
We almost had "that guy" in Kirk Cousins. LOL
Jimmy may have thrived in a spread offense in college but I find it hard to believe he would find extensive success if he ran one in the NFL. Again, he would be limited because of his ability to push the ball down field when neccessary. Same thing with Alex Smith. He ran alot of spread in KC with Andy Reid but when teams forced him to go vertical at a high rate, they would lose. That was the main reason why they drafted Pat Mahomes. I honestly believe that Jimmy is in an offense that best fits his skillset. But when the rushing attack isn't on its game, Jimmy has shown to be less affective and his record reflects that. Now, should Kyle go spread more often when the run game isn't working? That is a real question to ponder.
You guys with your "JiMMy cAn'T pUsH tEh bAlL dOWnTHe FIeLd" nonsense is ridiculous, and false.
Did you not see the deep out to Aiyuk that should've been caught.
They must not have seen his presser today
What did he say today?
Edit. More evidence.
JG Translation: Free Jimmy, Kyle.
Garoppolo threw for 154 yards and one touchdown against the Seahawks and came out throwing the ball with frequency despite being away from the team for months. Could the remainder of the season bring more of the same? He certainly seems to hope so. Garoppolo mentioned after the game that the aggressive approach reminded him of his first months with the 49ers in 2017 when he was firing the ball all over the field while learning head coach Kyle Shanahan's offense on the fly, something he talked about once again during his media session on Thursday.
"I love that," Garoppolo said. "Yeah. It's just there's a lot of things that go with that obviously. But yeah, I love doing that stuff. In '17, there was a freedom where me, the receivers, the tight ends, we had a good chemistry going. When you get that with offensive skills in a quarterback, it makes for a tough offense."
Could there be more of that to come? Perhaps we'll start to find out Sunday night.
"I think we'll see that as we go forward. I don't know," Garoppolo said. "The more freedom you have as a quarterback, obviously, you play better, you're more confident, and good things will happen."
Kyle's retort to Jimmy's comments about being more free to make plays. From Bonilla on the HP.
Kyle Shanahan joined KNBR on Friday morning and had an opportunity to respond to the comments. Would the head coach be more willing to "wing it" more with Garoppolo than he did in 2019 and 2021?
"Yeah, I'm not even sure what that question or those statements mean, but we're always the same," Shanahan responded on the Murph & Mac show. "We try to do what we think gives us the best chance to succeed. That has to do with our skill set and what we're going against. There's no such thing as, 'Hey, I feel like winging it this year. I feel like going deep this year. I feel like going short this year. I feel like running the ball this year.' It doesn't work that way.
"It works with, what's your personnel? What are you going against? And what do you think gives you the best chance to win on Sunday? And that's really how we look at everything."
Shanahan was asked if there was a difference in 2017 when Garoppolo seemed to be throwing the football more.
"Yeah, we were a real bad team," he answered. "We weren't nearly as balanced. He came in and took over a 1-9 team. And I think what he meant—I don't want to make assumptions like you guys are—but if I have to, I would guess what he meant is he was going in there, and he was personally winging it a lot more. He was new to the offense.
"We were going in and just trying to—I guess we threw it more when he came in at that time. I'm not really sure. But the stats and stuff, look at how efficient we were in '19. Look at us throwing the ball. Look at us last year. I mean, we averaged more yards gained on every pass play we did. So, at the end of it, where they land and where they get tackled, we actually are getting deeper than anybody when it comes to completions. That's something you never feel bad about.
"You can air it out down the field all day, but at the end of the day, when you average less yards per pass than we do, I don't feel that's as successful. Our goal is to try to be efficient, try to be successful, and that doesn't mean throwing it short. That means doing what you think you're good at and what the defense is giving to you. And that changes quarter to quarter, week to week, year to year."
We should just pin Kyle's retort in this thread.
People saying we didn't throw deep in 2019 because of Jimmy, Kyle is basically saying, "big F'n deal, we got the same result as those throwing deep in a more efficient way and that's how I like it"
Sherm talked in his pod with K.J. how Kyle would always show the charts that if they ran the ball 30x they won 80% of the time. He's gonna freaking run that ball, look to pick up first downs run it some more and if the defense tries to cheat he'll try and take a shot but he's looking for what's most efficient more than anything.
jd, I missed out on a chunk of pages but wanted to get your thoughts on what Jimmy meant by how things were different in 2017 when he first got on the team and how he was able to throw it around more.
My guess is that in 2017, Jimmy wasn't versed in the schemed up plays in Kyle's playbook - the bootlegs, misdirection leaks, heavy playaction to scheme open a primary, type of plays. It was more read the field, pick a side (concept) to work, and throw it. Basic route concepts (curl/flat, smash, spacing, drive,), very cookie cutter route combinations that work. Because this is what NE did a lot of, spread the field and run basic concepts to each side. QB picks a side of the field based of his presnap read, and throws the ball.
I'm intrigued by Jimmy's recent comments and want to understand what he meant. Sorry this not about the topic of throwing deep so kind of a stray away from this conversation chain.
I tell you what, when the 49ers play KC Ryans better not bring any pressure. Give PM half the time in a clean pocket and drop someone back in coverage.
Originally posted by Polkadots:
And if we look at the data, would it be fair to say, 60% of the time, JG had an average of 2.3 seconds to throw the ball (KC time)? But 40% of the time he had, what? Because I am not seeing where the cut is being made. Did JG have 3.4 seconds to throw before pressure arrived? Because that definition would be problematic for the PM 4.9 UP time, since the extension of the play due to his mobilty would be post the UP time cut off established for JG.
The latter part, having to do with UP, is where I wish there was a different stat. I think jd or thl asked for something a few pages back. Something that would define plays that result in a negative play as, "QB x had y time to throw, but due to a, b, or c, failed to, thus resulting in m, n, o." I know that's a lot of variables.
This is what he said. I'm not trying to obtuse but i'm not sure what he meant by this speaking UP.
"Jimmy had an average of 3.4 seconds to throw before the pressure came."
That's where i'm confused because there is no possible way. To think Mahomes had 5 seconds.
Top of post last page.
Yes. Jimmy had an average of 3.4 seconds before he had to throw it or take a sack.
I don't buy that Mahomes had 5 on slightly less than30% of his passes and i quote "before the pressure came" but I think were at a standstill here.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think your numbers are tremendously flawed.
Those are not my numbers and unless you can prove that those numbers are wrong, I couldn't care less.
I'm watching Mahomes playoff highlights right now counting in my head which isn't an end all. I don't see him getting 5 seconds "before the pressure came" but again, our minds are made up.
You can dispute one stat sites data vs another. But when it comes to comparing one players data vs another on one specific site, you have to believe that they are consistent within their own operational definitions. So however you interpret it, Pat Mahomes had a significant amount of time to throw the ball while big Ben and Tom Brady did not. Also, we are not talking about how long the O line held up in pass pro per se. Only that the QB had an average of x amount of time before he had to throw the ball.
Originally posted by Polkadots:
And if we look at the data, would it be fair to say, 60% of the time, JG had an average of 2.3 seconds to throw the ball (KC time)? But 40% of the time he had, what? Because I am not seeing where the cut is being made. Did JG have 3.4 seconds to throw before pressure arrived? Because that definition would be problematic for the PM 4.9 UP time, since the extension of the play due to his mobilty would be post the UP time cut off established for JG.
The latter part, having to do with UP, is where I wish there was a different stat. I think jd or thl asked for something a few pages back. Something that would define plays that result in a negative play as, "QB x had y time to throw, but due to a, b, or c, failed to, thus resulting in m, n, o." I know that's a lot of variables.
This is what he said. I'm not trying to obtuse but i'm not sure what he meant by this speaking UP.
"Jimmy had an average of 3.4 seconds to throw before the pressure came."
That's where i'm confused because there is no possible way. To think Mahomes had 5 seconds.
Top of post last page.
Yes. Jimmy had an average of 3.4 seconds before he had to throw it or take a sack.
I don't buy that Mahomes had 5 on slightly less than30% of his passes and i quote "before the pressure came" but I think were at a standstill here.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think your numbers are tremendously flawed.
Those are not my numbers and unless you can prove that those numbers are wrong, I couldn't care less.
I'm watching Mahomes playoff highlights right now counting in my head which isn't an end all. I don't see him getting 5 seconds "before the pressure came" but again, our minds are made up.
Cheers.
Well he scrambled 13 times in the 2021 playoffs so they must be on that highlight video somewhere.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
You can dispute one stat sites data vs another. But when it comes to comparing one players data vs another on one specific site, you have to believe that they are consistent within their own operational definitions. So however you interpret it, Pat Mahomes had a significant amount of time to throw the ball while big Ben and Tom Brady did not. Also, we are not talking about how long the O line held up in pass pro per se. Only that the QB had an average of x amount of time before he had to throw the ball.
I feel like this has probably been asked and answered, but is there a specific stat that targets how long the OL held up, specifically? I feel like the KC stat should account for such a scenario, but perhaps not.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
You can dispute one stat sites data vs another. But when it comes to comparing one players data vs another on one specific site, you have to believe that they are consistent within their own operational definitions. So however you interpret it, Pat Mahomes had a significant amount of time to throw the ball while big Ben and Tom Brady did not. Also, we are not talking about how long the O line held up in pass pro per se. Only that the QB had an average of x amount of time before he had to throw the ball.
I feel like this has probably been asked and answered, but is there a specific stat that targets how long the OL held up, specifically? I feel like the KC stat should account for such a scenario, but perhaps not.
Idk. I can look into it though and get back to you.
If you look at my chart, you can clearly see a discrepancy between mobile QB's and pure pocket passers. Jimmy was at the higher end of the pure pocket passers when it came to TTT UP.
[ Edited by YACBros85 on Sep 23, 2022 at 5:39 PM ]
Been saying this for a long time. He's basically admitting that air yards are worthless and that what truly matters is moving the ball. When you can move the ball by getting the ball in your playmakers hands and average a good YPA, that's far more important than having air under the ball.
"You can air it out down the field all day, but at the end of the day, when you average less yards per pass than we do, I don't feel that's as successful. Our goal is to try to be efficient, try to be successful, and that doesn't mean throwing it short. That means doing what you think you're good at and what the defense is giving to you. And that changes quarter to quarter, week to week, year to year."
