Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
LOL.

Trying to post charts and how much time he holds it in the pocket. You guys are desperate.

Does he win? YES.

Does he win in the playoffs? YES.

Does he go deep in the playoffs? YES.

Tomorrow should be a fantastic test about the winning QB vs winning team theory. All Russell Wilson has done his entire life is beat the 49ers. Will that continue tomorrow? Or did he forget to bring the legion of boom with him to Denver?

Sunday. Not tomorrow (Saturday). Let's watch College Football first.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
LOL.

Trying to post charts and how much time he holds it in the pocket. You guys are desperate.

Does he win? YES.

Does he win in the playoffs? YES.

Does he go deep in the playoffs? YES.

Tomorrow should be a fantastic test about the winning QB vs winning team theory. All Russell Wilson has done his entire life is beat the 49ers. Will that continue tomorrow? Or did he forget to bring the legion of boom with him to Denver?

Sunday. Not tomorrow (Saturday). Let's watch College Football first.

Today is Saturday, but since some on this board have a problem with the time some of us post, as well as lacking a firm grasp of time zones, we can save that conversation for another day.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
LOL.

Trying to post charts and how much time he holds it in the pocket. You guys are desperate.

Does he win? YES.

Does he win in the playoffs? YES.

Does he go deep in the playoffs? YES.

He didn't win the NFCCG last year. We heard all off season how it was all the O lines fault that we lost that game to the rams.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
You can dispute one stat sites data vs another. But when it comes to comparing one players data vs another on one specific site, you have to believe that they are consistent within their own operational definitions. So however you interpret it, Pat Mahomes had a significant amount of time to throw the ball while big Ben and Tom Brady did not. Also, we are not talking about how long the O line held up in pass pro per se. Only that the QB had an average of x amount of time before he had to throw the ball.

I feel like this has probably been asked and answered, but is there a specific stat that targets how long the OL held up, specifically? I feel like the KC stat should account for such a scenario, but perhaps not.

I think I found what you were looking for.

This is more like it. When you get into TT you can REALLY see the differences in the older veteran classic pocket QB's and how reliant they are on their PP and getting rid of the ball insanely fast (knowledge) vs. the off script mobile QB's who buy more time and then usually go deeper off that (higher AY); hero ball.

Ben Roethlisberger didn't have 1.98s worth of pass protection. He choose to throw it under 2s.

Since Jimmy Garoppolo is a classic pocket passer, he simply needs better pass protection to find his optimal success. He's still going to be top 5 annually in TT (2.67s all of 2021) via nextgenstats.nfl.com and that's great for an OL that struggles in PP.

But if he's under regular duress (whether getting rid of the ball timely or not) that's when things break down for him. For instance, when he's top 5 in TT but still accumulating 125 QB hits, that speaks to poor PP. But when his primary is covered or he's forced out holding it longer, bad things happen that are on him.

This new OL is going to have to shift its focus more to PP esp. in predictable sets. If they hold while still run blocking well, we're going to win a ton of games, IMHO.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
You can dispute one stat sites data vs another. But when it comes to comparing one players data vs another on one specific site, you have to believe that they are consistent within their own operational definitions. So however you interpret it, Pat Mahomes had a significant amount of time to throw the ball while big Ben and Tom Brady did not. Also, we are not talking about how long the O line held up in pass pro per se. Only that the QB had an average of x amount of time before he had to throw the ball.

I feel like this has probably been asked and answered, but is there a specific stat that targets how long the OL held up, specifically? I feel like the KC stat should account for such a scenario, but perhaps not.

I think I found what you were looking for.

This is more like it. When you get into TT you can REALLY see the differences in the older veteran classic pocket QB's and how reliant they are on their PP and getting rid of the ball insanely fast (knowledge) vs. the off script mobile QB's who buy more time and then usually go deeper off that (higher AY); hero ball.

Ben Roethlisberger didn't have 1.98s worth of pass protection. He choose to throw it under 2s.

Since Jimmy Garoppolo is a classic pocket passer, he simply needs better pass protection to find his optimal success. He's still going to be top 5 annually in TT (2.67s all of 2021) via nextgenstats.nfl.com and that's great for an OL that struggles in PP.

But if he's under regular duress (whether getting rid of the ball timely or not) that's when things break down for him. For instance, when he's top 5 in TT but still accumulating 125 QB hits, that speaks to poor PP. But when his primary is covered or he's forced out holding it longer, bad things happen that are on him.

This new OL is going to have to shift its focus more to PP esp. in predictable sets. If they hold while still run blocking well, we're going to win a ton of games, IMHO.

Jimmy had an average of 2.78 overall TTT when it came to all dropbacks. That was better than Joe Burrow and Matthew Stafford who both played in the SB. Jimmy also had a significantly higher ATT than those two. Meaning those 2 QB's had less time to throw in the pocket than Jimmy had but was still able to make it to the SB with one of them ultimately winning it all. So to say that Jimmy is at no fault for the loss in the NFCCG and it was all on PP is a false narrative.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
You can dispute one stat sites data vs another. But when it comes to comparing one players data vs another on one specific site, you have to believe that they are consistent within their own operational definitions. So however you interpret it, Pat Mahomes had a significant amount of time to throw the ball while big Ben and Tom Brady did not. Also, we are not talking about how long the O line held up in pass pro per se. Only that the QB had an average of x amount of time before he had to throw the ball.

I feel like this has probably been asked and answered, but is there a specific stat that targets how long the OL held up, specifically? I feel like the KC stat should account for such a scenario, but perhaps not.

I think I found what you were looking for.

This is more like it. When you get into TT you can REALLY see the differences in the older veteran classic pocket QB's and how reliant they are on their PP and getting rid of the ball insanely fast (knowledge) vs. the off script mobile QB's who buy more time and then usually go deeper off that (higher AY); hero ball.

Ben Roethlisberger didn't have 1.98s worth of pass protection. He choose to throw it under 2s.

Since Jimmy Garoppolo is a classic pocket passer, he simply needs better pass protection to find his optimal success. He's still going to be top 5 annually in TT (2.67s all of 2021) via nextgenstats.nfl.com and that's great for an OL that struggles in PP.

But if he's under regular duress (whether getting rid of the ball timely or not) that's when things break down for him. For instance, when he's top 5 in TT but still accumulating 125 QB hits, that speaks to poor PP. But when his primary is covered or he's forced out holding it longer, bad things happen that are on him.

This new OL is going to have to shift its focus more to PP esp. in predictable sets. If they hold while still run blocking well, we're going to win a ton of games, IMHO.

Jimmy had an average of 2.78 overall TTT when it came to all dropbacks. That was better than Joe Burrow and Matthew Stafford who both played in the SB. Jimmy also had a significantly higher ATT than those two. Meaning those 2 QB's had less time to throw in the pocket than Jimmy had but was still able to make it to the SB with one of them ultimately winning it all. So to say that Jimmy is at no fault for the loss in the NFCCG and it was all on PP is a false narrative.

I don't think you can base Jimmy's performance and pocket time in the NFCC on this averaged chart since 2011. Anyone could see that in the 2nd half of that game, there were virtually free rushers on every other play because Donald and Von Miller kept beating the blocking. Jimmy could barely get off plays because the pocket was collapsing constantly. Conversely, we weren't getting any pressure on Stafford in the 2nd half. That's why he was able to sit back there with plenty of time and shred our secondary. I'd be curious to see how long each QB in that game had in the pocket before throwing the ball or getting sacked.

Originally posted by Psinex:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
You can dispute one stat sites data vs another. But when it comes to comparing one players data vs another on one specific site, you have to believe that they are consistent within their own operational definitions. So however you interpret it, Pat Mahomes had a significant amount of time to throw the ball while big Ben and Tom Brady did not. Also, we are not talking about how long the O line held up in pass pro per se. Only that the QB had an average of x amount of time before he had to throw the ball.

I feel like this has probably been asked and answered, but is there a specific stat that targets how long the OL held up, specifically? I feel like the KC stat should account for such a scenario, but perhaps not.

I think I found what you were looking for.

This is more like it. When you get into TT you can REALLY see the differences in the older veteran classic pocket QB's and how reliant they are on their PP and getting rid of the ball insanely fast (knowledge) vs. the off script mobile QB's who buy more time and then usually go deeper off that (higher AY); hero ball.

Ben Roethlisberger didn't have 1.98s worth of pass protection. He choose to throw it under 2s.

Since Jimmy Garoppolo is a classic pocket passer, he simply needs better pass protection to find his optimal success. He's still going to be top 5 annually in TT (2.67s all of 2021) via nextgenstats.nfl.com and that's great for an OL that struggles in PP.

But if he's under regular duress (whether getting rid of the ball timely or not) that's when things break down for him. For instance, when he's top 5 in TT but still accumulating 125 QB hits, that speaks to poor PP. But when his primary is covered or he's forced out holding it longer, bad things happen that are on him.

This new OL is going to have to shift its focus more to PP esp. in predictable sets. If they hold while still run blocking well, we're going to win a ton of games, IMHO.

Jimmy had an average of 2.78 overall TTT when it came to all dropbacks. That was better than Joe Burrow and Matthew Stafford who both played in the SB. Jimmy also had a significantly higher ATT than those two. Meaning those 2 QB's had less time to throw in the pocket than Jimmy had but was still able to make it to the SB with one of them ultimately winning it all. So to say that Jimmy is at no fault for the loss in the NFCCG and it was all on PP is a false narrative.

I don't think you can base Jimmy's performance and pocket time in the NFCC on this averaged chart since 2011. Anyone could see that in the 2nd half of that game, there were virtually free rushers on every other play because Donald and Von Miller kept beating the blocking. Jimmy could barely get off plays because the pocket was collapsing constantly. Conversely, we weren't getting any pressure on Stafford in the 2nd half. That's why he was able to sit back there with plenty of time and shred our secondary. I'd be curious to see how long each QB in that game had in the pocket before throwing the ball or getting sacked.

That is not an average chart going back to 2011. The statement about 2011 is saying that they didn't keep track of such stats prior to the 2011 season. Those stats I provided are exclusively from the 2021 playoffs.

I also call bs on the Stafford sitting back in the pocket in the second half rhetoric. Stafford was getting the ball out of his hands rather quickly.

I'll be the first to say that if Jimmy makes a play then we win, but with all the love Stafford gets, if our defense makes a play we win too. Stafford nearly threw the game away on a very stupid throw. Our defense didn't make that play. Meanwhile Stafford's defense came together and stopped our offense cold.

I reiterate that Jimmy is to blame as much as anybody and I'll give credit to Stafford as he did make one more play, but if our defense does it's thing, Stafford isn't the the legend he's made out to be.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
We almost had "that guy" in Kirk Cousins. LOL

Jimmy may have thrived in a spread offense in college but I find it hard to believe he would find extensive success if he ran one in the NFL. Again, he would be limited because of his ability to push the ball down field when neccessary. Same thing with Alex Smith. He ran alot of spread in KC with Andy Reid but when teams forced him to go vertical at a high rate, they would lose. That was the main reason why they drafted Pat Mahomes. I honestly believe that Jimmy is in an offense that best fits his skillset. But when the rushing attack isn't on its game, Jimmy has shown to be less affective and his record reflects that. Now, should Kyle go spread more often when the run game isn't working? That is a real question to ponder.

You guys with your "JiMMy cAn'T pUsH tEh bAlL dOWnTHe FIeLd" nonsense is ridiculous, and false.

Did you not see the deep out to Aiyuk that should've been caught.

They must not have seen his presser today

What did he say today?

Edit. More evidence.
JG Translation: Free Jimmy, Kyle.

Garoppolo threw for 154 yards and one touchdown against the Seahawks and came out throwing the ball with frequency despite being away from the team for months. Could the remainder of the season bring more of the same? He certainly seems to hope so. Garoppolo mentioned after the game that the aggressive approach reminded him of his first months with the 49ers in 2017 when he was firing the ball all over the field while learning head coach Kyle Shanahan's offense on the fly, something he talked about once again during his media session on Thursday.

"I love that," Garoppolo said. "Yeah. It's just there's a lot of things that go with that obviously. But yeah, I love doing that stuff. In '17, there was a freedom where me, the receivers, the tight ends, we had a good chemistry going. When you get that with offensive skills in a quarterback, it makes for a tough offense."

Could there be more of that to come? Perhaps we'll start to find out Sunday night.

"I think we'll see that as we go forward. I don't know," Garoppolo said. "The more freedom you have as a quarterback, obviously, you play better, you're more confident, and good things will happen."

Kyle's retort to Jimmy's comments about being more free to make plays. From Bonilla on the HP.

Kyle Shanahan joined KNBR on Friday morning and had an opportunity to respond to the comments. Would the head coach be more willing to "wing it" more with Garoppolo than he did in 2019 and 2021?

"Yeah, I'm not even sure what that question or those statements mean, but we're always the same," Shanahan responded on the Murph & Mac show. "We try to do what we think gives us the best chance to succeed. That has to do with our skill set and what we're going against. There's no such thing as, 'Hey, I feel like winging it this year. I feel like going deep this year. I feel like going short this year. I feel like running the ball this year.' It doesn't work that way.

"It works with, what's your personnel? What are you going against? And what do you think gives you the best chance to win on Sunday? And that's really how we look at everything."

Shanahan was asked if there was a difference in 2017 when Garoppolo seemed to be throwing the football more.

"Yeah, we were a real bad team," he answered. "We weren't nearly as balanced. He came in and took over a 1-9 team. And I think what he meant—I don't want to make assumptions like you guys are—but if I have to, I would guess what he meant is he was going in there, and he was personally winging it a lot more. He was new to the offense.

"We were going in and just trying to—I guess we threw it more when he came in at that time. I'm not really sure. But the stats and stuff, look at how efficient we were in '19. Look at us throwing the ball. Look at us last year. I mean, we averaged more yards gained on every pass play we did. So, at the end of it, where they land and where they get tackled, we actually are getting deeper than anybody when it comes to completions. That's something you never feel bad about.

"You can air it out down the field all day, but at the end of the day, when you average less yards per pass than we do, I don't feel that's as successful. Our goal is to try to be efficient, try to be successful, and that doesn't mean throwing it short. That means doing what you think you're good at and what the defense is giving to you. And that changes quarter to quarter, week to week, year to year."

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
We almost had "that guy" in Kirk Cousins. LOL

Jimmy may have thrived in a spread offense in college but I find it hard to believe he would find extensive success if he ran one in the NFL. Again, he would be limited because of his ability to push the ball down field when neccessary. Same thing with Alex Smith. He ran alot of spread in KC with Andy Reid but when teams forced him to go vertical at a high rate, they would lose. That was the main reason why they drafted Pat Mahomes. I honestly believe that Jimmy is in an offense that best fits his skillset. But when the rushing attack isn't on its game, Jimmy has shown to be less affective and his record reflects that. Now, should Kyle go spread more often when the run game isn't working? That is a real question to ponder.

You guys with your "JiMMy cAn'T pUsH tEh bAlL dOWnTHe FIeLd" nonsense is ridiculous, and false.

Did you not see the deep out to Aiyuk that should've been caught.

They must not have seen his presser today

What did he say today?

Edit. More evidence.
JG Translation: Free Jimmy, Kyle.

Garoppolo threw for 154 yards and one touchdown against the Seahawks and came out throwing the ball with frequency despite being away from the team for months. Could the remainder of the season bring more of the same? He certainly seems to hope so. Garoppolo mentioned after the game that the aggressive approach reminded him of his first months with the 49ers in 2017 when he was firing the ball all over the field while learning head coach Kyle Shanahan's offense on the fly, something he talked about once again during his media session on Thursday.

"I love that," Garoppolo said. "Yeah. It's just there's a lot of things that go with that obviously. But yeah, I love doing that stuff. In '17, there was a freedom where me, the receivers, the tight ends, we had a good chemistry going. When you get that with offensive skills in a quarterback, it makes for a tough offense."

Could there be more of that to come? Perhaps we'll start to find out Sunday night.

"I think we'll see that as we go forward. I don't know," Garoppolo said. "The more freedom you have as a quarterback, obviously, you play better, you're more confident, and good things will happen."

Kyle's retort to Jimmy's comments about being more free to make plays. From Bonilla on the HP.

Kyle Shanahan joined KNBR on Friday morning and had an opportunity to respond to the comments. Would the head coach be more willing to "wing it" more with Garoppolo than he did in 2019 and 2021?

"Yeah, I'm not even sure what that question or those statements mean, but we're always the same," Shanahan responded on the Murph & Mac show. "We try to do what we think gives us the best chance to succeed. That has to do with our skill set and what we're going against. There's no such thing as, 'Hey, I feel like winging it this year. I feel like going deep this year. I feel like going short this year. I feel like running the ball this year.' It doesn't work that way.

"It works with, what's your personnel? What are you going against? And what do you think gives you the best chance to win on Sunday? And that's really how we look at everything."

Shanahan was asked if there was a difference in 2017 when Garoppolo seemed to be throwing the football more.

"Yeah, we were a real bad team," he answered. "We weren't nearly as balanced. He came in and took over a 1-9 team. And I think what he meant—I don't want to make assumptions like you guys are—but if I have to, I would guess what he meant is he was going in there, and he was personally winging it a lot more. He was new to the offense.

"We were going in and just trying to—I guess we threw it more when he came in at that time. I'm not really sure. But the stats and stuff, look at how efficient we were in '19. Look at us throwing the ball. Look at us last year. I mean, we averaged more yards gained on every pass play we did. So, at the end of it, where they land and where they get tackled, we actually are getting deeper than anybody when it comes to completions. That's something you never feel bad about.

"You can air it out down the field all day, but at the end of the day, when you average less yards per pass than we do, I don't feel that's as successful. Our goal is to try to be efficient, try to be successful, and that doesn't mean throwing it short. That means doing what you think you're good at and what the defense is giving to you. And that changes quarter to quarter, week to week, year to year."

We should just pin Kyle's retort in this thread.

People saying we didn't throw deep in 2019 because of Jimmy, Kyle is basically saying, "big F'n deal, we got the same result as those throwing deep in a more efficient way and that's how I like it"

Sherm talked in his pod with K.J. how Kyle would always show the charts that if they ran the ball 30x they won 80% of the time. He's gonna freaking run that ball, look to pick up first downs run it some more and if the defense tries to cheat he'll try and take a shot but he's looking for what's most efficient more than anything.

We should also add this:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:
I'll be the first to say that if Jimmy makes a play then we win, but with all the love Stafford gets, if our defense makes a play we win too. Stafford nearly threw the game away on a very stupid throw. Our defense didn't make that play. Meanwhile Stafford's defense came together and stopped our offense cold.

I reiterate that Jimmy is to blame as much as anybody and I'll give credit to Stafford as he did make one more play, but if our defense does it's thing, Stafford isn't the the legend he's made out to be.

Yes. Defense was partially at fault as well. I also agree that Stafford was far from perfect in that game. What I was attempting to prove is that the data disputes the assumption that the offenses woes were strictly on the O line. Which I believe was not. Jimmy had more time in the pocket on average than the other 3 QB's remaining in the final 4 last post season.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by dioworld:
Jimmy hater should just gave up watching 9ers this year and come back next year for Trey. If you guys hate him so much just stop watching while he's the starting QB .
yes, he suck and won't make no playoff, so just stop watching this year and come back next year

Speaking for those who agree with me, we don't "hate" Jimmy. We "hate" you. As in the ridiculous dumb crap people say which belittles the rest of the team to prop up their favorite player, disparaging last year's REALLY GOOD offensive line, to our WRs, to Trey (whole lot of ASSumptions based on a whole lot of nothing), or Shanahan, and so on.

If you think last year's line was good, especially at the end of the year, I'd be forced to question your understanding of the game. They were mediocre at best, and flat out s**t in the playoffs after Trent was hobbled.

Overall they were really good. As pass protectors they were around average.

Originally posted by Sickaa:
"One of the better throwers on the planet"

Kyle thinks highly of Jimmy.

He IS one of the better throwers on the planet. His issue is he forgets his mechanics too much, but by god his arm is golden.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:
I'll be the first to say that if Jimmy makes a play then we win, but with all the love Stafford gets, if our defense makes a play we win too. Stafford nearly threw the game away on a very stupid throw. Our defense didn't make that play. Meanwhile Stafford's defense came together and stopped our offense cold.

I reiterate that Jimmy is to blame as much as anybody and I'll give credit to Stafford as he did make one more play, but if our defense does it's thing, Stafford isn't the the legend he's made out to be.

Yes. Defense was partially at fault as well. I also agree that Stafford was far from perfect in that game. What I was attempting to prove is that the data disputes the assumption that the offenses woes were strictly on the O line. Which I believe was not. Jimmy had more time in thr pocket on average than the other 3 remaining in the final 4 last season.

I don't think they were great and that they also deserve their share but I have no problem pointing the finger at Jimmy too. He has his chances and that's all there is to it.

And not looking specifically at you here but that doesn't bother me as much as it bother others. Many QBs, even great ones like Mahomes, Rodgers, Dak(just 3 that quickly chose)haven't done enough. Sure two of those guys have rings but they've also had a chance to win more if they simply made a play. I want nothing more than to win a SB or sports championship as I was 9 in 1994 but I also understand it's not easy. It takes a lot of things going your way such as a dropped gimme int.

To sit and just be constantly negative and bitter all of the time, makes no sense. And again I'm not pointing at you, I want to make that clear. Kap had his chances and blew it, Alex had his chance and blew it, Jimmy had his chances and blew it too. While I do want a super bowl I've appreciated the journey with all 3. I just don't understand why people can be so miserable all of the time.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Sickaa:
"One of the better throwers on the planet"

Kyle thinks highly of Jimmy.

He IS one of the better throwers on the planet. His issue is he forgets his mechanics too much, but by god his arm is golden.

Deadly even from that 0-20 yard range inside the numbers.