Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
PR= pressure rate
KC= kept clean TTT
UP= under pressure TTT
NB= not blitzed TTT
WB= when blitzed TTT

Prescott the only QB with a higher pressure rate than Jimmy. Good thing our guys can run block.

Try to understand the relationship between TTT under pressure and pressure rate. The higher the TTT the more time the QB had to throw the ball before he was under pressure. Meaning the pressure came late. If the pressure was coming instantly, the TTT would be a hell of a lot lower like Tom Brady and big ben. Those two were not pressured at a high rate but when they were, they had little time to throw.

Yeah, TTT isn't accounting for time they had before they would take a sack. It's how long it was from snap to throw under those conditions, not how quickly the pressure got there. The TTT is higher because the qb has to move in the pocket or bail out completely. Like when Jimmy the pick vs Dallas. He avoided a rushers rolled out and threw. Held the ball for like 5-6 seconds.

One thing Jimmy doesn't do, is hold the ball a long time. That should he pretty apparent. It's usually what causes him to throw a pick, not just eating a sack.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Sickaa:
"One of the better throwers on the planet"

Kyle thinks highly of Jimmy.

He IS one of the better throwers on the planet. His issue is he forgets his mechanics too much, but by god his arm is golden.

Fact is, if Jimmy could add to the run game like Trey, we'd have 2 SB's by now. THAT is worth 3 first round picks.

Originally posted by BangBang49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:
I'll be the first to say that if Jimmy makes a play then we win, but with all the love Stafford gets, if our defense makes a play we win too. Stafford nearly threw the game away on a very stupid throw. Our defense didn't make that play. Meanwhile Stafford's defense came together and stopped our offense cold.

I reiterate that Jimmy is to blame as much as anybody and I'll give credit to Stafford as he did make one more play, but if our defense does it's thing, Stafford isn't the the legend he's made out to be.

Yes. Defense was partially at fault as well. I also agree that Stafford was far from perfect in that game. What I was attempting to prove is that the data disputes the assumption that the offenses woes were strictly on the O line. Which I believe was not. Jimmy had more time in thr pocket on average than the other 3 remaining in the final 4 last season.

I don't think they were great and that they also deserve their share but I have no problem pointing the finger at Jimmy too. He has his chances and that's all there is to it.

And not looking specifically at you here but that doesn't bother me as much as it bother others. Many QBs, even great ones like Mahomes, Rodgers, Dak(just 3 that quickly chose)haven't done enough. Sure two of those guys have rings but they've also had a chance to win more if they simply made a play. I want nothing more than to win a SB or sports championship as I was 9 in 1994 but I also understand it's not easy. It takes a lot of things going your way such as a dropped gimme int.

To sit and just be constantly negative and bitter all of the time, makes no sense. And again I'm not pointing at you, I want to make that clear. Kap had his chances and blew it, Alex had his chance and blew it, Jimmy had his chances and blew it too. While I do want a super bowl I've appreciated the journey with all 3. I just don't understand why people can be so miserable all of the time.

The o line got their fair share of the blame if not more. Just refer back to the entire off season in the O line thread.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:
There's just no way...



https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/21#yards

Those are overall TTT's on all dropbacks. My chart separates them into categories. One of those categories pertaining specifically to dropbacks under pressure.

So exactly what was JImmy doing for nearly 4 seconds while being under pressure 41% of the time? These stats are tremendously flawed imo.

Holding the ball too damn long.

While under pressure 41% of the time!? And only being sacked 0 times, 4 times, and 0 times?

Lol no.

No. He had an average of 3.4 seconds to throw before the pressure came.

So you're telling me Mahomes had 4.9 seconds? Do you not understand how long that is?

Lol no.

But he was only under pressure 29.7% of his dropbacks. Plus Mahomes is known for extending plays with his legs. Look at all the mobile QB's in my chart. Jimmy is not mobile. So like I said yesterday, was he running around for his life on 41% of his dropbacks or was he holding the ball too long?

Hahaha. Love waking up to entertainment like this. I warned you about the rabbit hole but yes,....it's pretty clear that numbers are not for everyone.

Those that don't understand them will just say they make no sense.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Jimmy had an average of 2.78 overall TTT when it came to all dropbacks. That was better than Joe Burrow and Matthew Stafford who both played in the SB. Jimmy also had a significantly higher ATT than those two. Meaning those 2 QB's had less time to throw in the pocket than Jimmy had but was still able to make it to the SB with one of them ultimately winning it all. So to say that Jimmy is at no fault for the loss in the NFCCG and it was all on PP is a false narrative.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
PR= pressure rate
KC= kept clean TTT
UP= under pressure TTT
NB= not blitzed TTT
WB= when blitzed TTT

Prescott the only QB with a higher pressure rate than Jimmy. Good thing our guys can run block.

Try to understand the relationship between TTT under pressure and pressure rate. The higher the TTT the more time the QB had to throw the ball before he was under pressure. Meaning the pressure came late. If the pressure was coming instantly, the TTT would be a hell of a lot lower like Tom Brady and big ben. Those two were not pressured at a high rate but when they were, they had little time to throw.

Yeah, TTT isn't accounting for time they had before they would take a sack. It's how long it was from snap to throw under those conditions, not how quickly the pressure got there. The TTT is higher because the qb has to move in the pocket or bail out completely. Like when Jimmy the pick vs Dallas. He avoided a rushers rolled out and threw. Held the ball for like 5-6 seconds.

One thing Jimmy doesn't do, is hold the ball a long time. That should he pretty apparent. It's usually what causes him to throw a pick, not just eating a sack.

For the most part, this is true. But when the run game was shut down and his bread and butter middle of the field was taken away, you bet your ass he was holding that ball too long.

TTT isn't the only stat I provided. Refer back to PFF's Time in the Pocket chart I posted also. He had more average time to throw from the pocket than the other 3 QB's in the final 4 of the post season.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:
There's just no way...



https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2021/POST/21#yards

Those are overall TTT's on all dropbacks. My chart separates them into categories. One of those categories pertaining specifically to dropbacks under pressure.

So exactly what was JImmy doing for nearly 4 seconds while being under pressure 41% of the time? These stats are tremendously flawed imo.

Holding the ball too damn long.

While under pressure 41% of the time!? And only being sacked 0 times, 4 times, and 0 times?

Lol no.

No. He had an average of 3.4 seconds to throw before the pressure came.

So you're telling me Mahomes had 4.9 seconds? Do you not understand how long that is?

Lol no.

But he was only under pressure 29.7% of his dropbacks. Plus Mahomes is known for extending plays with his legs. Look at all the mobile QB's in my chart. Jimmy is not mobile. So like I said yesterday, was he running around for his life on 41% of his dropbacks or was he holding the ball too long?

Hahaha. Love waking up to entertainment like this. I warned you about the rabbit hole but yes,....it's pretty clear that numbers are not for everyone.

Those that don't understand them will just say they make no sense.

I made my case just fine and provided my own incite(hypocrite). I stand by it. Like always instead of actually conversate you insight(hypocrite).

And yes I know the difference, I'm poking fun.

Originally posted by BangBang49er:
Why is Mahomes moving out of the pocket when he has 5 seconds before he has to throw?

Lol.....These 2 things aren't exclusive. You really thought he had 5 secs to throw and just stood there...then the pressure came....then he extended the play for more time that they didn't account for?

Mahomes is known to extend plays. Whether the pressure came at 0.5 seconds or 4.5 seconds is not accounted for here with these 2 numbers.

With guys like Russ and Mahomes,...you are not going to look at these numbers the same way that you would with, say, Brady and Jimmy.

Mahomes is not some "smoking gun" of an outlier or anything that you found...you are just comparing two completely different types of QBs and don't understand.

You instead put Jimmy next to Brady and the like.

But again,... you have to understand these things before you jump into the conversation and make proclamations like "they don't make sense."

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:
Why is Mahomes moving out of the pocket when he has 5 seconds before he has to throw?

Lol.....These 2 things aren't exclusive. You really thought he had 5 secs to throw and just stood there...then the pressure came....then he extended the play for more time that they didn't account for?

Mahomes is known to extend plays. Whether the pressure came at 0.5 seconds or 4.5 seconds is not accounted for here with these 2 numbers.

With guys like Russ and Mahomes,...you are not going to look at these numbers the same way that you would with, say, Brady and Jimmy.

Mahomes is not some "smoking gun" of an outlier or anything that you found...you are just comparing two completely different types of QBs and don't understand.

You instead put Jimmy next to Brady and the like.

But again,... you have to understand this things before you jump into the conversation and make proclamations like "they don't make sense."

Meh I've already addressed this and I understand just fine. TBH the more I thought about this the more pointless the entire conversation was as I was just arguing the numbers. Even if true Jimmy was pretty average compared to other top QBs and that's not a negative imo. I have no problem saying Jimmy deserves blame for the loss, I just disagreed with the numbers. If I'm wrong unlike you, I'll man up and admit it instead of freak the heck out like you did. Now relax, take a breath and have a wonderful morning.

Just in case anyone was still trying to paint a picture or tell a story with these numbers,...these are 4 great examples.

#1 & #2: Tom and Ben — You have guys like these 2 towards the end of their careers, wise with experience, and generally immobile.

They both KNOW that they dont have long to hold onto the ball so by design, their PR % numbers are the 2 lowest I've outlined. Then you look at their UP numbers,...and that tells you that they understood they had to do something with the ball and was ready to do so. Forget how good or bad Brady and Ben's Olines were for a sec!

By the time it's the playoffs....you as a QB understand what the hell you have and it's your responsibility to perform with it. Anyone trying to tell you otherwise is detrimental to discussions like these and enjoy spreading nonsense around the forum (with no meaningful purpose).

#3: Kyler Murray — Then you look at Murray. He's a little water bug so he'd eventually hold onto the ball long enough to be pressured 40.5% of the time. Pressure coming generally about 3.68 seconds speaks to his ability to constantly extend plays looking for a big play instead of get rid of the ball with a pre-planned read, ala Ben and Brady.

#4: Jimmy G — And then we have Jimmy and his numbers. @ 41.3% PR and 3.4 seconds UP,....when comparing to the previous 3, Jimmy is a bit of a misnomer.

But I ONLY understand this if I watch all 4 players play! These numbers mean nothing at all without watching the players play,....a point I've made constantly here amid these number battles.

Back to Jimmy tho. Okay,...being pressured over 41% of the time compared to TB12 and Ben's low percentages tells me he doesn't understand the tools he has at his disposal (his legs, his outlets),...and/or he's just not ready for the playoffs. The UP number is only further confirmation of that being so high @ 3.4 seconds. That's not that far away from a guy like Murray that's likely giving a team headaches with his legs. These numbers, due to his immobility, puts him more in a box than a guy like Murray.

So it's not like the #'s say that 40% of the time pressure got there in a couple seconds and he had no time to throw. Lol,....no. We all know that much of that extended time (3.4 seconds 41% of the time) ended in disaster. How do we know that? Because we've watched Jimmy play over and over and can verify off of sheer memory that when he has the ball for extended periods of time, especially in the playoffs, it's usually not good.

His good play with the ball in his hands is exactly the opposite of that 41%. Due to his abilities,...he should be alot closer to Ben with that 17% or Brady @ 25%,...but come the playoffs, TEAMS ARE TAKING THE SHORT, QUICK, EASY STUFF AWAY AND HAVE MADE RUNNING THE BALL MORE DIFFICULT.

How do we know? Other than watching, we know because they are good teams, hence, the reason that they are in the playoffs.

There is a popular poster here that notoriously wants to say that it's the OLines fault that a # like the pressure % will balloon with Jimmy come playoff time. But a clear, honest discussion about them beyond 2 sentences (see above) clearly shows that he just doesn't understand, or doesn't want to understand.

I left out Josh Allen. As we've seen with our eyes,...Josh Allen's abilities will be a luxury for years to come. In the chart above,...he's getting rid of the ball before pressure comes 75% of the time. His abilities with his legs -- along with that crazy 4.37 #,...is exactly the opposite of Ben and Brady. So when he's under pressure and throwing, it's NOT gotten rid of simply because he felt like he had to before the pressure came. So in his case, the latter number enhances the former.

Again, a luxury. Which is problematic for other teams as he gets better and better (see Mahomes).

But to be a pain and be repetitive,....how do we know all of this without watching the guys play football?

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

LOL.

Trying to post charts and how much time he holds it in the pocket. You guys are desperate.

Does he win? YES.

Does he win in the playoffs? YES.

Does he go deep in the playoffs? YES.

Tomorrow should be a fantastic test about the winning QB vs winning team theory. All Russell Wilson has done his entire life is beat the 49ers. Will that continue tomorrow? Or did he forget to bring the legion of boom with him to Denver?

Sunday. Not tomorrow (Saturday). Let's watch College Football first.

Today is Saturday, but since some on this board have a problem with the time some of us post, as well as lacking a firm grasp of time zones, we can save that conversation for another day.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by JMC52:

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by JMC52:
2nd time Jimmy mentions weird things in SF, hope the coaches aren't touching him inappropriately

You try seeing that dude everyday and not touch him.

Lmao

Can't argue with that

i see why so many of you defend him

👀

This may be the healthiest Jimmy has been since his injury against Kansas City.

knee injuries take longer to fully heal than most people think. Look at QS who have had knee injuries, they may comeback the next season, but it is usually followed by a down season as a passer.

a weakens knee is a weakens throwing base.

his base was finally healed and his shoulder and hand were injured.

not sure is the shoulder surgery will hold him back, but he looks pretty good

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:
I'll be the first to say that if Jimmy makes a play then we win, but with all the love Stafford gets, if our defense makes a play we win too. Stafford nearly threw the game away on a very stupid throw. Our defense didn't make that play. Meanwhile Stafford's defense came together and stopped our offense cold.

I reiterate that Jimmy is to blame as much as anybody and I'll give credit to Stafford as he did make one more play, but if our defense does it's thing, Stafford isn't the the legend he's made out to be.

Yes. Defense was partially at fault as well. I also agree that Stafford was far from perfect in that game. What I was attempting to prove is that the data disputes the assumption that the offenses woes were strictly on the O line. Which I believe was not. Jimmy had more time in thr pocket on average than the other 3 remaining in the final 4 last season.

I don't think they were great and that they also deserve their share but I have no problem pointing the finger at Jimmy too. He has his chances and that's all there is to it.

And not looking specifically at you here but that doesn't bother me as much as it bother others. Many QBs, even great ones like Mahomes, Rodgers, Dak(just 3 that quickly chose)haven't done enough. Sure two of those guys have rings but they've also had a chance to win more if they simply made a play. I want nothing more than to win a SB or sports championship as I was 9 in 1994 but I also understand it's not easy. It takes a lot of things going your way such as a dropped gimme int.

To sit and just be constantly negative and bitter all of the time, makes no sense. And again I'm not pointing at you, I want to make that clear. Kap had his chances and blew it, Alex had his chance and blew it, Jimmy had his chances and blew it too. While I do want a super bowl I've appreciated the journey with all 3. I just don't understand why people can be so miserable all of the time.

The o line got their fair share of the blame if not more. Just refer back to the entire off season in the O line thread.

This is true. The issue this time with the OL was its inability to run...at all...esp. in the NFCCG. I'd put that as a bigger weakness than the PP overall. The issue is the relationship.

Just like today, if you stop Kyle's run offense, now your OL/QB are facing predictable passing downs which means the OL has to hold in PP for longer (need more distance on passes) and Jimmy has to trust it and hit those. Neither the OL or QB do too well under duress under those circumstances. Most offenses don't.