Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by thl408:
Yes it is a fact. Lance can't play because he's injured. So if Jimmy throws for 0 TD and 5 INTs in a game, that's still more production than what Lance is providing. Still, your post was not a good response to what NY was saying. Understand the context of his post and you'll understand what I mean.

I thought Woo had a good response. JG can't hit it. Okay fine. I heard multiple broadcasts say it's basically his preseason. He's getting the rust out. Is that an excuse? It is. If you are out there you should play better.. or you shouldn't be out there. I get that.

Pointing out TL can't hit it.. he's hurt. It makes sense to me. All of us were sold on the idea we were moving on from JG. We would have a QB upgrade and perhaps most importantly a more durable FQB. We don't. Least not yet.

It's like saying Jimmy is more mobile than Lance. Well yeah, Lance's ankle is broken and he's probably on crutches at the moment. So it is indeed a fact that Jimmy is more mobile and faster than Lance, but it's lame to use that logic. That's what WooLick is saying, that since Lance is injured he can't hit anything at the moment. True, but lame.

Here's an example. McGlinchy is pass blocking much better than Trent Williams right now. Well yeah Trent's ankle is busted. But that's lame to say that.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I have no problem if you didn't think we would make the playoffs with Trey. It's when people act like they can make factual statements about Trey last season and this season when he's not playing that I have an issue with.

Last season was, "starting Trey would have resulted in a wasted season"

This season it's "we wouldn't have made the playoffs with Trey, Jimmy will win more games"

I'm sure there's going to be posters who claim that we would have won this game or that game if Trey started over Jimmy. I think that's incorrect as well.

That's fair, tbh.

I do think that the team is better *right now* with Jimmy G than with Trey Lance.

I do believe that with the current roster makeup, you have to prioritize winning *right now* over developing one player who may or may not be an improvement over what we have.

I do believe that Jimmy is replaceable.

I do believe that obsessing with replacing him to the point of trading multiple first round picks to draft his replacement and run him out of town is absurd, given the success this team has had with him.

I do believe that Jimmy probably shouldn't have come back this year if we were moving on to Trey, but with Trey's injury im glad Jimmy is here.

I do believe that anyone claiming Trey Lance at this point is a bust is speaking absurdities. There is quite frankly too small a sample size to get an idea one way or another over what he is going to be.

I don't believe Trey Lance has been any sort of impressive in the limited time he's had.

I don't believe that Trey Lance has been anything close to woeful in his limited time.

I do believe that Jimmy was atrocious on Sunday night, and the main on-field factor for our loss.

I do believe the absurd safety has people exaggerating how bad he actually was.

I do believe that ultimately, at some point this has to fall on Shanahan for the offense being so woefully prepared for GameDay in 2 out of 3 games so far, and taking 2 L's against very beatable opponents.

I do believe this team can and will bounce back against the Rams and beyond, and be a competitor this season.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Your first point.. I realize it's not QB power on the play he got injured. I never said that. You act like I did. But I didn't. I said he's a QB power player. He is. He ran that at NDSU all day.
Second point.. it is a designed run in the sense it's an option and if he doesn't hand off he keeps and runs into DL and LBs. That's the design of the play.
Third point.. with a 10 point lead and Parsons we don't lose the lead. It's my opinion. You can believe he would make zero difference and be a total non factor in a 3 pt game if you like. That's what's great we can all see it different it's what makes a forum.
Fourth point.. are we grooming TL? I recall you saying last year that we should throw the season in the trash essentially and just play TL and eat L's. His development was more important than the team he needs snaps. A lot of ppl posted along those lines. Assuming we wouldn't make it as far as we did. Well if he needs snaps in games.. he's not getting them. I say we still need a QB as we go into 2023. Hard to simply roll TL with no plan B after this season.

It was overall a general statement (not just directed at you sorry about that) . He didn't get hurt running a straight up QB designed run up the A gap.

all these QBs run that play in college. Not just lance FWIW. s**t is more spread out in college. We shouldn't be running that play as much as we have. Agreed there. Toss it.

it's not JUST a designed run play for Lance, which is my point. That play is run just about every game. If you're afraid the QB is gonna get hurt then he shouldn't be playing football. Period. Mac Jones just destroyed his ankle playing in the pocket all the same.

Yes it's your opinion and it's make believe. Facts are our QB stunk (like he has in the playoffs for years). At some point your QB has to do something.

What do you think grooming is? Having him sit and play scout QB? That does absolutely nothing to develop him. He's got to run OUR offense with the starters to improve. Not pretend to be Kirk cousins or whomever we're playing that week. It's all predetermined play calls to help the defense. No one is learning playing like that. Case in point was when he was tossed in to play vs AZ. He had next to nothing with the starters or running out scheme at that point. So it was a bunch of running around. Great development YES I do think playing football will make him better, shocker I know. I already said I'm fine if they don't win as much at the start if they end results are a damn good QB for a decade.

Cool we made it to the NFCC (with a ton of luck) and still lost. No one seems to care about that right now. we also have no idea if Lance was the starter from camp going forward where we would have been by the time the season ended. I'll bet money he would have been A LOT further along in his development vs how they went about it.

now here we are watching a stagnant offense with a middle of the road starting QB get held together by an elite D. Sweet.

Originally posted by thl408:
It was QB Power on the play he got injured. Meaning, it wasn't zone blocking on that play, it was a Power play but with a QB, so it was QB Power. (just do a search on Power Play and you'll see it drawn up; OL pulling, there's a kickout block, and a lead blocker)
There was a 'read' element to that play so technically it was a Power Read. Thanks, Heroism for pointing this out.

I just say read option. When I think of QB power it's a play designed specifically with the QB running no "read" element or option other than that.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by thl408:
It was QB Power on the play he got injured. Meaning, it wasn't zone blocking on that play, it was a Power play but with a QB, so it was QB Power. (just do a search on Power Play and you'll see it drawn up; OL pulling, there's a kickout block, and a lead blocker)
There was a 'read' element to that play so technically it was a Power Read. Thanks, Heroism for pointing this out.

I just say read option. When I think of QB power it's a play designed specifically with the QB running no "read" element or option other than that.

It's not Read Option.
This is read option. The read element is him keeping or handing off to the RB. Then if he keeps, there is an Option to toss.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by thl408:
There's a lot going on with this play (pass to Kittle deflected at the line). If Jimmy sees the safety on the trips side rotate down, the elite play is to attack the side that the rotation came from. So had Jimmy saw that safety coming down, maybe he moves off of the matchup he likes (Kittle 1v1) and gives the trips side a chance, which might allow him to see Aiyuk. I can't blame him for liking Kittle 1v1, but I do wonder if he saw the downhill safety who could have either defended the pass (if no deflection at the line) or light up Kittle.

I don't know that safety could have lit up Kittle..but I agree with the rest. Kittle has both size and angle if a collision happens.

Just because he has the size doesn't mean it's okay to lead him into downhill safeties. Upon further review, it does look like the safety took an angle to play the pass and was not looking to hit Kittle. The safety looked upset that the pass was deflected at the line.

Regardless you're tossing your TE into what could be a massive collision. Jimmy doesn't know if he's gonna play the ball or try to knock out Kittle.

Originally posted by thl408:
Yes it is a fact. Lance can't play because he's injured. So if Jimmy throws for 0 TD and 5 INTs in a game, that's still more production than what Lance is providing. Still, your post was not a good response to what NY was saying. Understand the context of his post and you'll understand what I mean.

Thank you

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by thl408:
Yes it is a fact. Lance can't play because he's injured. So if Jimmy throws for 0 TD and 5 INTs in a game, that's still more production than what Lance is providing. Still, your post was not a good response to what NY was saying. Understand the context of his post and you'll understand what I mean.

I thought Woo had a good response. JG can't hit it. Okay fine. I heard multiple broadcasts say it's basically his preseason. He's getting the rust out. Is that an excuse? It is. If you are out there you should play better.. or you shouldn't be out there. I get that.

Pointing out TL can't hit it.. he's hurt. It makes sense to me. All of us were sold on the idea we were moving on from JG. We would have a QB upgrade and perhaps most importantly a more durable FQB. We don't. Least not yet.

It's like saying Jimmy is more mobile than Lance. Well yeah, Lance's ankle is broken and he's probably on crutches at the moment. So it is indeed a fact that Jimmy is more mobile and faster than Lance, but it's lame to use that logic. That's what WooLick is saying, that since Lance is injured he can't hit anything at the moment. True, but lame.

Here's an example. McGlinchy is pass blocking much better than Trent Williams right now. Well yeah Trent's ankle is busted. But that's lame to say that.

Thl, I get what you are saying here and it would sound silly with McG and Trent. I guess what really gets me is the irony that we have been pining for a more durable QB for years.. I mean years. And we moved heaven and earth to get him. And he's out for the year. It really stinks.

I don't think Woo was doing a haha I'm faster than Mitchell cuz he's hurt type of comment. I think he was just pointing out the painful irony.

After 5 years of evaluation, the org decided to make Jimmy G. the backup. That is a long time to evaluate somebody. Just because he is the starter now, doesn't elevate him to be an elite QB. The position doesn't define the player, the talent level does. Jimmy G. is just a name at this point, just like Shudfield or Henne or Gabbert, etc.
At this point, no choice really, so let's hope the 49ers get the best out of him, and rely on the defense to bail us out, similar to the last few years.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Same throw people get mad at Lance for not hitting perfectly. Yet our 8 yr vet can't hit it

Lance isn't hitting anyone right now.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with what I said

It'll be like that for until the 2023 season. It's a nice comeback since Lance can't play right now. Even if Jimmy has a 1.0 rating, "still better than Lance". ooohhh gotcha.

It isn't a gotcha, it is a fact.
Jimmy is better than Lance this year.

People complaining about how Jimmy gets a pass for things Lance doesn't is a dumb topic because Lance hasn't played at all essentially. He hasn't proven anything yet.

The post I responded to had nothing to do with Jimmy's play, it was complaining about how Trey is being treated on the Internet.

Yes it is a fact. Lance can't play because he's injured. So if Jimmy throws for 0 TD and 5 INTs in a game, that's still more production than what Lance is providing. Still, your post was not a good response to what NY was saying. Understand the context of his post and you'll understand what I mean.

What was NY saying?
Some unnamed posters are unfair to Lance because they don't afford him the faith they afford the guy who has done something for this team?

I think my response showed the obvious difference in the way the two are viewed and why.

JG doing his best after last week to get this to 10K

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
What was NY saying?
Some unnamed posters are unfair to Lance because they don't afford him the faith they afford the guy who has done something for this team?

I think my response showed the obvious difference in the way the two are viewed and why.

And some people believe its crazy to give a 9 year vet the benefit of the doubt and not to someone who has made 3 starts. I am one of those people.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
What was NY saying?
Some unnamed posters are unfair to Lance because they don't afford him the faith they afford the guy who has done something for this team?

I think my response showed the obvious difference in the way the two are viewed and why.

And some people believe its crazy to give a 9 year vet the benefit of the doubt and not to someone who has made 3 starts. I am one of those people.

SWH, this is flawed logic. For example.. TB12 couldn't hit em downfield toward the end in NE. Ppl said he's done. The Bucs gave him benefit of the doubt. Said it was not him it was the receivers.

* Warning * the above post mentions TB12. I am not suggesting JG is TB12 or on that level

Just a broader point that you can get benefit of the doubt and be old as dirt. Depends on the circumstance.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Same throw people get mad at Lance for not hitting perfectly. Yet our 8 yr vet can't hit it

Lance isn't hitting anyone right now.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with what I said

It'll be like that for until the 2023 season. It's a nice comeback since Lance can't play right now. Even if Jimmy has a 1.0 rating, "still better than Lance". ooohhh gotcha.

It isn't a gotcha, it is a fact.
Jimmy is better than Lance this year.

People complaining about how Jimmy gets a pass for things Lance doesn't is a dumb topic because Lance hasn't played at all essentially. He hasn't proven anything yet.

The post I responded to had nothing to do with Jimmy's play, it was complaining about how Trey is being treated on the Internet.

Yes it is a fact. Lance can't play because he's injured. So if Jimmy throws for 0 TD and 5 INTs in a game, that's still more production than what Lance is providing. Still, your post was not a good response to what NY was saying. Understand the context of his post and you'll understand what I mean.

What was NY saying?
Some unnamed posters are unfair to Lance because they don't afford him the faith they afford the guy who has done something for this team?

I think my response showed the obvious difference in the way the two are viewed and why.

It's in this response chain. NY said folks get mad at Trey for not hitting that throw but a seasoned veteran also cannot hit that throw. I don't necessarily agree, but that's not the point of my post here.
The point is you referenced Lance's injury as the reason Lance can't hit that throw. Read it again and you'll totally understand how your comment, "Lance isn't hitting anyone right now", has little to do with what NY said.