Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
I stand corrected. Both Devonta Freeman (17) and Tevin Coleman (11) had more red zone targets than Jones (9). So it IS a Kyle problem.

Thanks for clearing that up.

If they were wide open and Jones was double covered why is that a problem?

The Jimmy haters say that Kyle's conservative play calling and decisions from Jimmy in the red zone are because he doesn't trust his QB. Yet here is a perfect example of a Kyle QB having to throw to his RB's (either by design or decision) even with an all-time great WR. So maybe Kyle's red zone play calling is just Kyle's personality, and not a "distrust" in Jimmy? Maybe he just doesn't "trust" any QB in the red zone and prefers to play to not lose (ie the Turtle Shell offense).

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
NC what do you consider 2nd "and long" though? IMO, 2nd and long is much different than 3rd and long (for obvious reasons), and should be treated differently. Like, 2nd and 7 to me isnt 2nd and long, but 3rd and 7 is.

Just curious.

Me? I vacillate on 2nd and 7 or 2nd and 8. I'd be fine either way but to be clear, my focus is really 1st downs because we know the ripple effect that has on our passing game...like ANY penalty.

In years past, when we're picking up positive yards (3/4+), we're rolling. Kyle's playbook is fully opened.

But as we've seen with the I/OZ, so often we're in negative yards (2-4 yard losses). Boom or bust.

I think Kurt Warner touched on it well, that there are some easy schematic changes Kyle can make to make life a little easier on the QB and passing game and stay ahead of the sticks. Hence why CMC was such a huge addition.

This is why I watch first down production (or lack thereof); because of that ripple effect.

And completely ignore the night and day difference in production between the two RB's on 1st down. All of the negative 1st down runs were from the same RB. On top of that, they were alternating series throughout the game. So it wasn't like CMC wore them down in the 1st half and Mitchell took advantage of it in the 2nd half. CMC just had a poor game rushing. That is it. Nothing more to it.

So you think the Chargers played the two RB's EXACTLY the same way? And the OL blocked EXACTLY the same way for the two RB's? Seems quite doubtful. Perhaps the Chargers were just keyed in more on stopping CMC running.

Yes. Here's the gameplan. Lets shut down CMC and let that no body Mitchell gash us for 6+ yards on 1st down all game long. Also, the O line said, we like that guy Mitchell more than we do that new hotshot RB CMC. So we are going to block better for our boy Mitchell. F that CMC dude.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:


Julio Jones had 2 redzone touchdowns in 2016.

I almost posted the same thing

Classic example of something sounding correct in theory but not in reality.

Classic example of proving the point you've been arguing against for years, and not realizing it.

Furlow out here playing 4D Chess

Maybe if KS had Mahomes and not the MVP of the league, he would have used Julio more.

If JG can simply elevate his game to Mahomes level.. then we can see the true KS.

Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:


Julio Jones had 2 redzone touchdowns in 2016.

I almost posted the same thing

Classic example of something sounding correct in theory but not in reality.

Classic example of proving the point you've been arguing against for years, and not realizing it.

What exactly are you saying I have been arguing against?

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
NC what do you consider 2nd "and long" though? IMO, 2nd and long is much different than 3rd and long (for obvious reasons), and should be treated differently. Like, 2nd and 7 to me isnt 2nd and long, but 3rd and 7 is.

Just curious.

Me? I vacillate on 2nd and 7 or 2nd and 8. I'd be fine either way but to be clear, my focus is really 1st downs because we know the ripple effect that has on our passing game...like ANY penalty.

In years past, when we're picking up positive yards (3/4+), we're rolling. Kyle's playbook is fully opened.

But as we've seen with the I/OZ, so often we're in negative yards (2-4 yard losses). Boom or bust.

I think Kurt Warner touched on it well, that there are some easy schematic changes Kyle can make to make life a little easier on the QB and passing game and stay ahead of the sticks. Hence why CMC was such a huge addition.

This is why I watch first down production (or lack thereof); because of that ripple effect.

And completely ignore the night and day difference in production between the two RB's on 1st down. All of the negative 1st down runs were from the same RB. On top of that, they were alternating series throughout the game. So it wasn't like CMC wore them down in the 1st half and Mitchell took advantage of it in the 2nd half. CMC just had a poor game rushing. That is it. Nothing more to it.

So you think the Chargers played the two RB's EXACTLY the same way? And the OL blocked EXACTLY the same way for the two RB's? Seems quite doubtful. Perhaps the Chargers were just keyed in more on stopping CMC running.

Yes. Here's the gameplan. Lets shut down CMC and let that no body Mitchell gash us for 6+ yards on 1st down all game long. Also, the O line said, we like that guy Mitchell more than we do that new hotshot RB CMC. So we are going to block better for our boy Mitchell. F that CMC dude.

Not quite lol. They saw CMC absolutely torch the Rams, so they said "make someone else beat us." They were run blitzing 2-3 guys every time CMC carried the ball. The safeties were at the LOS to help by the time CMC got there. That's not a run read, that's a run blitz. I didn't see that when Mitchell was in, so he had more space to work, and the zone blocking was able to do it's job.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by krizay:
Redzone wise I completely agree it doesn't appear as if he trusts Jimmy. Which, pre 2022 I would completely understand. This year Jimmy playing with nothing to lose and IMO tis is the best version of Jimmy we've had since he's been here. Thus Kyle needs to open up that RZ offense some more

He doesn't trust Jimmy. Clear as day. Has been for years.

It's why the argument about playcalling is weak. The argument on why they kept him is the valid one. I just think Faithful declaring that Kyle can't develop a QB when his guy has such a small sample is wrong. He has developed QBs consistently. It's just their ceilings were what they were. The elite QB's dont become elite just on the backs of coaching.

So he trusted him last year in the RZ and in the 4 minute offense but not now?

This place, I swear. Now it's red zone efficiency. We're not scoring more because Kyle doesn't 'trust' Jimmy. This newest lie, (oh, sorry, assertion) conveniently overlooks the fact that the 49ers were 4th in the league in red zone efficiency last year when it came to scoring TDs.

Buffalo was first at 66%. Then there was somebody with 65% and then Tampa Bay had 64.6% to our 64.4. So now, even though they were 4th in the league last year in this stat, Kyle has suddenly decided that he doesn't trust Jimmy to execute in the red zone and hasn't, 'for years'. The degree to which people just make stuff up Iin this thread is pretty astounding.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
This is just my opinion but I think kyle has his reservations on what he can call based on the personnel (QB).

They've been pretty good in RZ TD% in past yrs, but so far it's looked pretty meh. For me the pre-snap motion is to help the QB read the coverage (like others said, it's free no reason not to use it) now post snap that can change and the QB has to recognize that.

sucks I really wanted to see Lance and some more RPOs and read options, that's basically what McDainels is doing in Miami.

Redzone wise I completely agree it doesn't appear as if he trusts Jimmy. Which, pre 2022 I would completely understand. This year Jimmy playing with nothing to lose and IMO tis is the best version of Jimmy we've had since he's been here. Thus Kyle needs to open up that RZ offense some more

If he had Lance he would probably run more option stuff inside the 5. I would like to see more even with Jimmy. You don't have to be a great runner to run right and slide into a hole from 5 yards out if there is no receiver open. They now have too many weapons to be kicking FGs once they get a 1st down inside the 10 and especially inside the 5. Save Gould's leg for the long stuff.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
NC what do you consider 2nd "and long" though? IMO, 2nd and long is much different than 3rd and long (for obvious reasons), and should be treated differently. Like, 2nd and 7 to me isnt 2nd and long, but 3rd and 7 is.

Just curious.

Me? I vacillate on 2nd and 7 or 2nd and 8. I'd be fine either way but to be clear, my focus is really 1st downs because we know the ripple effect that has on our passing game...like ANY penalty.

In years past, when we're picking up positive yards (3/4+), we're rolling. Kyle's playbook is fully opened.

But as we've seen with the I/OZ, so often we're in negative yards (2-4 yard losses). Boom or bust.

I think Kurt Warner touched on it well, that there are some easy schematic changes Kyle can make to make life a little easier on the QB and passing game and stay ahead of the sticks. Hence why CMC was such a huge addition.

This is why I watch first down production (or lack thereof); because of that ripple effect.

And completely ignore the night and day difference in production between the two RB's on 1st down. All of the negative 1st down runs were from the same RB. On top of that, they were alternating series throughout the game. So it wasn't like CMC wore them down in the 1st half and Mitchell took advantage of it in the 2nd half. CMC just had a poor game rushing. That is it. Nothing more to it.

So you think the Chargers played the two RB's EXACTLY the same way? And the OL blocked EXACTLY the same way for the two RB's? Seems quite doubtful. Perhaps the Chargers were just keyed in more on stopping CMC running.

Yes. Here's the gameplan. Lets shut down CMC and let that no body Mitchell gash us for 6+ yards on 1st down all game long. Also, the O line said, we like that guy Mitchell more than we do that new hotshot RB CMC. So we are going to block better for our boy Mitchell. F that CMC dude.

Not quite lol. They saw CMC absolutely torch the Rams, so they said "make someone else beat us." They were run blitzing 2-3 guys every time CMC carried the ball. The safeties were at the LOS to help by the time CMC got there. That's not a run read, that's a run blitz. I didn't see that when Mitchell was in, so he had more space to work, and the zone blocking was able to do it's job.

So you are saying that LAC's never adjusted to the other guy who was gashing the s**t out of them on 1st down all game long? Someone should fire that f**king coach. 😂

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:


Julio Jones had 2 redzone touchdowns in 2016.

I almost posted the same thing

Classic example of something sounding correct in theory but not in reality.

Classic example of proving the point you've been arguing against for years, and not realizing it.

What exactly are you saying I have been arguing against?

Dude you and the other Jimmy haters have been arguing for YEARS that Kyle doesn't trust Jimmy, and that's why he checks down to RB's and doesn't throw to WR's. That he's conservative, especially in the red zone, because of his QB. Then you cite a stat that in Matt Ryan's MVP season (the one that the Jimmy haters LOVE to reference to disparage Jimmy) that Julio only had 2 TD's in the red zone. Two RB's had more red zone targets than him. So that is PROOF that it's a Kyle offensive design/problem/issue or whatever you want to call it.

Kyle was, is, and likely always will be a smash mouth, physical, run oriented offensive play caller. Doesn't matter who is QB is, that's what he wants to do. You proved it lol. Again, thank you.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by krizay:
Redzone wise I completely agree it doesn't appear as if he trusts Jimmy. Which, pre 2022 I would completely understand. This year Jimmy playing with nothing to lose and IMO tis is the best version of Jimmy we've had since he's been here. Thus Kyle needs to open up that RZ offense some more

He doesn't trust Jimmy. Clear as day. Has been for years.

It's why the argument about playcalling is weak. The argument on why they kept him is the valid one. I just think Faithful declaring that Kyle can't develop a QB when his guy has such a small sample is wrong. He has developed QBs consistently. It's just their ceilings were what they were. The elite QB's dont become elite just on the backs of coaching.

So he trusted him last year in the RZ and in the 4 minute offense but not now?

What were we last year in RZ efficiency if you remove the Deebo runs?

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
NC what do you consider 2nd "and long" though? IMO, 2nd and long is much different than 3rd and long (for obvious reasons), and should be treated differently. Like, 2nd and 7 to me isnt 2nd and long, but 3rd and 7 is.

Just curious.

Me? I vacillate on 2nd and 7 or 2nd and 8. I'd be fine either way but to be clear, my focus is really 1st downs because we know the ripple effect that has on our passing game...like ANY penalty.

In years past, when we're picking up positive yards (3/4+), we're rolling. Kyle's playbook is fully opened.

But as we've seen with the I/OZ, so often we're in negative yards (2-4 yard losses). Boom or bust.

I think Kurt Warner touched on it well, that there are some easy schematic changes Kyle can make to make life a little easier on the QB and passing game and stay ahead of the sticks. Hence why CMC was such a huge addition.

This is why I watch first down production (or lack thereof); because of that ripple effect.

And completely ignore the night and day difference in production between the two RB's on 1st down. All of the negative 1st down runs were from the same RB. On top of that, they were alternating series throughout the game. So it wasn't like CMC wore them down in the 1st half and Mitchell took advantage of it in the 2nd half. CMC just had a poor game rushing. That is it. Nothing more to it.

My 2nd and longs list weren't a result of just runs. Penalties, poor run blocking, screens eaten up, toss outs, etc. His running tendencies just aids the DC's though in that list. If you want to add CMC, that's fine too. The end result is the same. Behind the 8-ball from the start.

Any time I see a KS doesn't 'trust' JG post.. I say to myself we need to fire whoever is picking the QBs.. which is KS.

Not fire him from HC, but from the QB picker role..

The best he has done in 6 years is JG a guy he doesn't 'trust'. That's bad..

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by krizay:
Redzone wise I completely agree it doesn't appear as if he trusts Jimmy. Which, pre 2022 I would completely understand. This year Jimmy playing with nothing to lose and IMO tis is the best version of Jimmy we've had since he's been here. Thus Kyle needs to open up that RZ offense some more

He doesn't trust Jimmy. Clear as day. Has been for years.

It's why the argument about playcalling is weak. The argument on why they kept him is the valid one. I just think Faithful declaring that Kyle can't develop a QB when his guy has such a small sample is wrong. He has developed QBs consistently. It's just their ceilings were what they were. The elite QB's dont become elite just on the backs of coaching.

So he trusted him last year in the RZ and in the 4 minute offense but not now?

What were we last year in RZ efficiency if you remove the Deebo runs?

So Deebo was our RZ offense and 4 minute offense?

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
If he had Lance he would probably run more option stuff inside the 5. I would like to see more even with Jimmy. You don't have to be a great runner to run right and slide into a hole from 5 yards out if there is no receiver open. They now have too many weapons to be kicking FGs once they get a 1st down inside the 10 and especially inside the 5. Save Gould's leg for the long stuff.

TL in the RZ could be special. It's the between the 20's is where I have my doubts