Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by Sanfran_chrisco:
I just can't wrap my head around it as I read,

with Jimmy, oh, "He can avoid that"

with Roach, "He could have done a bit better maybe"

like... what?

how is it Jimmy can totally avoid taking a shot to the knee but the defender taking the shot himself MAYBE can do better? no dude, you have it backward. the defender CAN make the decision to avoid taking that shot, and Jimmy MAYBE can do better in getting the ball out sooner giving the defender a more realistic chance to ease up.

My point was JG can do better and so can the defender which seems like your final sentence. Maybe we agree here

One example I saw a play where he get contacted while throwing eyes were closed thanks to the contact and the ball is clanging off a helmet straight up for anyone to grab.. not a good play. Solution is accelerate the clock internally get it out quicker he should have been doing that all game.. my 2 cents.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Sanfran_chrisco:
I just can't wrap my head around it as I read,

with Jimmy, oh, "He can avoid that"

with Roach, "He could have done a bit better maybe"

like... what?

how is it Jimmy can totally avoid taking a shot to the knee but the defender taking the shot himself MAYBE can do better? no dude, you have it backward. the defender CAN make the decision to avoid taking that shot, and Jimmy MAYBE can do better in getting the ball out sooner giving the defender a more realistic chance to ease up.

My point was JG can do better and so can the defender which seems like your final sentence. Maybe we agree here

One example I saw a play where he get contacted while throwing eyes were closed thanks to the contact and the ball is clanging off a helmet straight up for anyone to grab.. not a good play. Solution is accelerate the clock internally get it out quicker he should have been doing that all game.. my 2 cents.

You know better, it's not just a quick fix like accelerating the internal clock...especially in a timing based offense run by a HC/OC who like to call long developing plays.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Sanfran_chrisco:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Sanfran_chrisco:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Sanfran_chrisco:
like I said, the Saints were taking cheap shots to his lower body a lot of the game outside of his control. he spoke on this as well. nothing dumb on Jimmy's part about taking the kind of hits he took to the head or the lower body after the ball was already out of his hands.

We can agree to disagree. I would say if he's unloading as the rush is bearing down.. it's reasonable to think guys will finish their rush. We see hits as or very soon after the ball is thrown all the time. If you don't want the hit unload a tad sooner and you won't have to get it. If he throws a second sooner I don't think Roach touches him. A second is a long time in NFL. He rolls right, tries to playmake, holds the ball and Roach flies in just after it's out

are you trying to downplay or completely dismiss the fact that Saints players were taking cheap shots?

What were the cheap shots, as in plural? Roach is the one that comes to mind.. he's kinda half committed as the ball is getting out. I say that's half on Roach and half on JG. He can avoid that by unloading sooner. Roach could have done a bit better maybe let up a tad. The rest I didn't see cheap shots just the ball not getting out in rhythm.

yeah, Saints did a great job at disrupting that rhythm.

to the cheap shot example,

#JimmyG @49ers
Narrowly misses significant left knee injury. Appears to suffer mild MCL sprain. Stays in game limping some and a flat footed next throw. Something to watch. pic.twitter.com/kvdqGcbHIf

— David J. Chao - ProFootballDoc (@ProFootballDoc) November 27, 2022

his words, :31 "that wasn't the only hit that was questionable like that"

that low hit above, late hits, helmet to helmet or should i say helmet to facemask.. it was pretty bad

The zebras were awful. I didn't include it in my review video cause it was getting long but there was one play they missed 3 flags. It was the deep shot to Aiyuk when the guy grabbed his facemask. Aiyuk actually got held, the guy grabbed a handful of jersey and is the only reason he was in position in the first place, then the facemask and Jimmy got a palm straight to the face after the throw.

NFL.com has an article on JG here is a blurb:

Would it be the worst idea for the 49ers to just keep Jimmy G in the Bay Area? Sure doesn't seem like it -- not after watching how this season has played out.

Currently working his way back from a fractured ankle, Lance has just four NFL starts under his belt. And the 22-year-old still looked pretty raw when he began this season as The Guy in San Francisco. Therefore, from the Niners' perspective, it could make plenty of sense for general manager John Lynch to re-sign the proven veteran with six years of experience in Kyle Shanahan's offense to a one- or two-year deal. After all, Garoppolo has a 37-17 regular-season record and 4-2 postseason mark under Shanahan. He's comfortable in the system and has built a rapport with his supporting cast. With what we've seen over the last month, there's reason to believe the 49ers could go on another run this January with an absolutely loaded offense and DeMeco Ryans' lights-out defense.

However, it won't be as easy to bring him back this time around. With Garoppolo set to hit the open market, other teams will be interested in paying him starter money, perhaps on a longer-term deal.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Sanfran_chrisco:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Sanfran_chrisco:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Sanfran_chrisco:
like I said, the Saints were taking cheap shots to his lower body a lot of the game outside of his control. he spoke on this as well. nothing dumb on Jimmy's part about taking the kind of hits he took to the head or the lower body after the ball was already out of his hands.

We can agree to disagree. I would say if he's unloading as the rush is bearing down.. it's reasonable to think guys will finish their rush. We see hits as or very soon after the ball is thrown all the time. If you don't want the hit unload a tad sooner and you won't have to get it. If he throws a second sooner I don't think Roach touches him. A second is a long time in NFL. He rolls right, tries to playmake, holds the ball and Roach flies in just after it's out

are you trying to downplay or completely dismiss the fact that Saints players were taking cheap shots?

What were the cheap shots, as in plural? Roach is the one that comes to mind.. he's kinda half committed as the ball is getting out. I say that's half on Roach and half on JG. He can avoid that by unloading sooner. Roach could have done a bit better maybe let up a tad. The rest I didn't see cheap shots just the ball not getting out in rhythm.

yeah, Saints did a great job at disrupting that rhythm.

to the cheap shot example,

#JimmyG @49ers
Narrowly misses significant left knee injury. Appears to suffer mild MCL sprain. Stays in game limping some and a flat footed next throw. Something to watch. pic.twitter.com/kvdqGcbHIf

— David J. Chao - ProFootballDoc (@ProFootballDoc) November 27, 2022

his words, :31 "that wasn't the only hit that was questionable like that"

that low hit above, late hits, helmet to helmet or should i say helmet to facemask.. it was pretty bad

The zebras were awful. I didn't include it in my review video cause it was getting long but there was one play they missed 3 flags. It was the deep shot to Aiyuk when the guy grabbed his facemask. Aiyuk actually got held, the guy grabbed a handful of jersey and is the only reason he was in position in the first place, then the facemask and Jimmy got a palm straight to the face after the throw.

it's been a long time since i have felt that things (refs) were really against us.. Hopefully that doesn't continue the next two games

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
it's been a long time since i have felt that things (refs) were really against us.. Hopefully that doesn't continue the next two games

I thought the refs were bad but hard to say they were against us. That Olave catch overturn was a joke.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
NFL.com has an article on JG here is a blurb:

Would it be the worst idea for the 49ers to just keep Jimmy G in the Bay Area? Sure doesn't seem like it -- not after watching how this season has played out.

Currently working his way back from a fractured ankle, Lance has just four NFL starts under his belt. And the 22-year-old still looked pretty raw when he began this season as The Guy in San Francisco. Therefore, from the Niners' perspective, it could make plenty of sense for general manager John Lynch to re-sign the proven veteran with six years of experience in Kyle Shanahan's offense to a one- or two-year deal. After all, Garoppolo has a 37-17 regular-season record and 4-2 postseason mark under Shanahan. He's comfortable in the system and has built a rapport with his supporting cast. With what we've seen over the last month, there's reason to believe the 49ers could go on another run this January with an absolutely loaded offense and DeMeco Ryans' lights-out defense.

However, it won't be as easy to bring him back this time around. With Garoppolo set to hit the open market, other teams will be interested in paying him starter money, perhaps on a longer-term deal.

eh.. to resign jimmy.. he has to be the conductor of the train and not the caboose. still a long way to go

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
it's been a long time since i have felt that things (refs) were really against us.. Hopefully that doesn't continue the next two games

I thought the refs were bad but hard to say they were against us. That Olave catch overturn was a joke.

the ball hit the ground, easy call

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Sanfran_chrisco:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Sanfran_chrisco:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Sanfran_chrisco:
like I said, the Saints were taking cheap shots to his lower body a lot of the game outside of his control. he spoke on this as well. nothing dumb on Jimmy's part about taking the kind of hits he took to the head or the lower body after the ball was already out of his hands.

We can agree to disagree. I would say if he's unloading as the rush is bearing down.. it's reasonable to think guys will finish their rush. We see hits as or very soon after the ball is thrown all the time. If you don't want the hit unload a tad sooner and you won't have to get it. If he throws a second sooner I don't think Roach touches him. A second is a long time in NFL. He rolls right, tries to playmake, holds the ball and Roach flies in just after it's out

are you trying to downplay or completely dismiss the fact that Saints players were taking cheap shots?

What were the cheap shots, as in plural? Roach is the one that comes to mind.. he's kinda half committed as the ball is getting out. I say that's half on Roach and half on JG. He can avoid that by unloading sooner. Roach could have done a bit better maybe let up a tad. The rest I didn't see cheap shots just the ball not getting out in rhythm.

yeah, Saints did a great job at disrupting that rhythm.

to the cheap shot example,

#JimmyG @49ers
Narrowly misses significant left knee injury. Appears to suffer mild MCL sprain. Stays in game limping some and a flat footed next throw. Something to watch. pic.twitter.com/kvdqGcbHIf

— David J. Chao - ProFootballDoc (@ProFootballDoc) November 27, 2022

his words, :31 "that wasn't the only hit that was questionable like that"

that low hit above, late hits, helmet to helmet or should i say helmet to facemask.. it was pretty bad

The zebras were awful. I didn't include it in my review video cause it was getting long but there was one play they missed 3 flags. It was the deep shot to Aiyuk when the guy grabbed his facemask. Aiyuk actually got held, the guy grabbed a handful of jersey and is the only reason he was in position in the first place, then the facemask and Jimmy got a palm straight to the face after the throw.

Mark Sanchez actually made a bigger stink about this than Aiyuk did, and Aiyuk did complain a little bit towards the ref on that incompletion, but there definitely should have been a hold/PI (ball was likely in the air already on that jersey grab).

Originally posted by grapesofrathman:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Sanfran_chrisco:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Sanfran_chrisco:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Sanfran_chrisco:
like I said, the Saints were taking cheap shots to his lower body a lot of the game outside of his control. he spoke on this as well. nothing dumb on Jimmy's part about taking the kind of hits he took to the head or the lower body after the ball was already out of his hands.

We can agree to disagree. I would say if he's unloading as the rush is bearing down.. it's reasonable to think guys will finish their rush. We see hits as or very soon after the ball is thrown all the time. If you don't want the hit unload a tad sooner and you won't have to get it. If he throws a second sooner I don't think Roach touches him. A second is a long time in NFL. He rolls right, tries to playmake, holds the ball and Roach flies in just after it's out

are you trying to downplay or completely dismiss the fact that Saints players were taking cheap shots?

What were the cheap shots, as in plural? Roach is the one that comes to mind.. he's kinda half committed as the ball is getting out. I say that's half on Roach and half on JG. He can avoid that by unloading sooner. Roach could have done a bit better maybe let up a tad. The rest I didn't see cheap shots just the ball not getting out in rhythm.

yeah, Saints did a great job at disrupting that rhythm.

to the cheap shot example,

#JimmyG @49ers
Narrowly misses significant left knee injury. Appears to suffer mild MCL sprain. Stays in game limping some and a flat footed next throw. Something to watch. pic.twitter.com/kvdqGcbHIf

— David J. Chao - ProFootballDoc (@ProFootballDoc) November 27, 2022

his words, :31 "that wasn't the only hit that was questionable like that"

that low hit above, late hits, helmet to helmet or should i say helmet to facemask.. it was pretty bad

The zebras were awful. I didn't include it in my review video cause it was getting long but there was one play they missed 3 flags. It was the deep shot to Aiyuk when the guy grabbed his facemask. Aiyuk actually got held, the guy grabbed a handful of jersey and is the only reason he was in position in the first place, then the facemask and Jimmy got a palm straight to the face after the throw.

Mark Sanchez actually made a bigger stink about this than Aiyuk did, and Aiyuk did complain a little bit towards the ref on that incompletion, but there definitely should have been a hold/PI (ball was likely in the air already on that jersey grab).

yeah it was an easy call from where i was sitting in that same endzone.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
NFL.com has an article on JG here is a blurb:

Would it be the worst idea for the 49ers to just keep Jimmy G in the Bay Area? Sure doesn't seem like it -- not after watching how this season has played out.

Currently working his way back from a fractured ankle, Lance has just four NFL starts under his belt. And the 22-year-old still looked pretty raw when he began this season as The Guy in San Francisco. Therefore, from the Niners' perspective, it could make plenty of sense for general manager John Lynch to re-sign the proven veteran with six years of experience in Kyle Shanahan's offense to a one- or two-year deal. After all, Garoppolo has a 37-17 regular-season record and 4-2 postseason mark under Shanahan. He's comfortable in the system and has built a rapport with his supporting cast. With what we've seen over the last month, there's reason to believe the 49ers could go on another run this January with an absolutely loaded offense and DeMeco Ryans' lights-out defense.

However, it won't be as easy to bring him back this time around. With Garoppolo set to hit the open market, other teams will be interested in paying him starter money, perhaps on a longer-term deal.

eh.. to resign jimmy.. he has to be the conductor of the train and not the caboose. still a long way to go

Yeah, it makes some sense to do it, but the logistics of HOW are the problem.
After pulling the trigger on CMC, they committed more so to a "Win NOW" mentality. I really do believe Trey Lance has a future in this league, but his development was set back by a year when he got injured. Trying to roll with Trey next year might hurt the window that we have with this roster.

But yeah... My prediction is that Jimmy's going to finish this season strong. We're moving toward a pass-first offense, he's playing well, and the offense is presumably going to get better over the last six games. He'll have strong statistical numbers numbers and hopefully should have a solid playoff run. That's a good situation for us this year, but it really muddies up our decision-making in the offseason at the QB position.

If Jimmy does well in the rest of the regular season and playoffs, he's going to have suitors. He's going to have the opportunity to get paid well, guaranteed money, on a multi-year contract. Even if Jimmy was okay with coming back and having Trey breathing down his neck (I doubt that), we're not going to commit to him and give him guaranteed money if we view Trey Lance as the QB of the Future.

I just don't see it happening if they have Trey Lance on the roster. To re-sign Jimmy, they'd have to make a tough call.

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
Wish the f**king NFL/refs would call the hits on Jimmy penalties like they do weekly to the other qbs in the league. Never seen a guy take as many headshots Jimmy does and never gets called

Although on the other hand, the roughing the passer penalty we got called for us technically wasn't illegal, because he was out of the tackle box (unless I'm mistaken). And then they immediately hit us with a holding penalty to make up for it, however...

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Furlow:
He said top 10. You cut it off at top 4. I wonder why? Maybe because the next 6 guys all had run grades that were top 10 in the league? And thus, their QBR's are inflated by those run grades?

Let me help you out. I cut it off after the top 4 AFTER A FULL SEASON's WORTH OF GAMES.

Just LAST YEAR.

Does it look like it helped uber-athletic QBs running around if a couple of the same old snails were atop it 10 years prior when it was first created?

Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady.

If the TOP 4 guys after the data has been fully compiled averaged 7-12 ypg running the ball, then can I come to the conclusion that pocket passers are surely benefitting from the formula?

It's like asking "Is 1 + 1 equal to 2?"

So can you explain Jimmy's low QBR inspite of being top 10 in passing efficiency this season? And when it comes to running the ball, I bet Jimmy has more 1st downs per rush than anyone else in the league.

Jimmy's expected points added by rushes is only 3.7 points worse than Tua, and Tua is number 1 in the NFL in QBR, by more than five points.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Furlow:
He said top 10. You cut it off at top 4. I wonder why? Maybe because the next 6 guys all had run grades that were top 10 in the league? And thus, their QBR's are inflated by those run grades?

Let me help you out. I cut it off after the top 4 AFTER A FULL SEASON's WORTH OF GAMES.

Just LAST YEAR.

Does it look like it helped uber-athletic QBs running around if a couple of the same old snails were atop it 10 years prior when it was first created?

Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady.

If the TOP 4 guys after the data has been fully compiled averaged 7-14 ypg running the ball, then can I come to the conclusion that pocket passers are surely benefitting from the formula?

It's like asking "Is 1 + 1 equal to 2?"

Let me help you out, YAC said "top ten." You cut it off at top four.

We know why you did. Keep pushing that QBR trash though.

Tannehill and Wentz are not "running QBs." Yeah, they're more athletic than Jimmy, but that's not their game. And Mahomes isn't really a running QB either (he'll not turn down easy yards, but his game is all about throwing the ball. At best he's a scrambler BEHIND the line who exploits undisciplined defenses with his arm). Allen, Murray and the Hobbit were the only true running QBs in the top ten that year.

All the top 6 QBs in QBR last year had expected points from passes in the 80s, and they were six of the top seven in expected points added from passing (Prescott being the other one). All six had higher EPA on passes than Jimmy last year. In fact, NINE OF THE TOP TEN in Total QBR had higher expected points added from pass than Jimmy had last year, with Wilson being the only exception. So I will have to call b******t on the claim that it's simply running that makes QBs rise on QBR.

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Furlow:
He said top 10. You cut it off at top 4. I wonder why? Maybe because the next 6 guys all had run grades that were top 10 in the league? And thus, their QBR's are inflated by those run grades?

Let me help you out. I cut it off after the top 4 AFTER A FULL SEASON's WORTH OF GAMES.

Just LAST YEAR.

Does it look like it helped uber-athletic QBs running around if a couple of the same old snails were atop it 10 years prior when it was first created?

Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady.

If the TOP 4 guys after the data has been fully compiled averaged 7-14 ypg running the ball, then can I come to the conclusion that pocket passers are surely benefitting from the formula?

It's like asking "Is 1 + 1 equal to 2?"

Let me help you out, YAC said "top ten." You cut it off at top four.

We know why you did. Keep pushing that QBR trash though.

?? You kinda lost bro. He mentioned the top 10 from this year (incomplete).

I referenced the Top 4 from last year (COMPLETE) in replying to a statement he made.

I didn't reply to anything about base numbers, 10's, or anything like that.

You're free to go back and reread.

I admittedly don't know enough about the formula to speak definitively, but you're using the placement of two hall of fame pocket passers to represent all pocket passers. From the purely statistical perspective, that is called a biased sample. The existence of two historically good outliers does not support your conclusion that, "pocket passers are surely benefitting from the formula."

Edit: Even extending to the top four guys isn't entirely convincing when the following three (ranks 5-7) were Mahomes, Allen, and Murray.

See my previous post. Nine of the top ten had higher expected points added by passes than Jimmy did. And Wentz and Tannehill aren't running QBs.

Re: the throw under pressure to McCaffrey some are saying was stupid. I strongly disagree. McCaffrey was right in front of him. It's a straight line. Sometimes you have to take a chance. Sacks are almost as bad as turnovers. This wasn't a dumb play. This was an elite play.