Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I don't think 94 vs 168 are that different. Let's not keep one and toss the other, you can view both, and say they are both fairly small samples
I think JG has been poor this year, he looks washed up to me, to say I am trying to say the sample is so small it can't be regarded would be not accurate of my position WB

I am saying to say 168 = valid and 94 is too small a sample, is bogus.

Pick some plays and show how, lol. Show it in comparison to some plays from the last few years.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
It exposes how nonsensical an ask it is. If you want me to get data, surely you can do the same. Or do you admit, it's not from data as you claim, it's more from common sense / eye test. You have no data.

The market speaks volumes, he was worth a round 2 (2x), $137m, $71m, etc. If you are right, and he's the same now as he was, then his valuation should remain the same. I say you are essentially already demonstrated wrong. His value clearly fluctuates over time, $137m is a big difference from $71m, particularly when you factor $137m was a then record, you would have to go up to like $400m today. So contracts going up, and JGs value going down. Easy answer, he's not as good as he once was. I think in FA now he would get a lot less than $71m, would he even get an offer? That's him being washed.

He did well in NE with McD, that's where you take the L thinking it's simply a product of being with Shanny. Shanny had a lot of QBs who couldn't do half of what JG did. But those days are over..

Lol. He started two games. Had less than 100 pass attempts across his entire Patriots tenure. He was a virtual unknown beyond the fact that he was a decent prospect and had tutored in the best situation in the NFL.

We are talking 94 attempts in NE and 168 in LV, it's fairly small sample in both
106.2 rating in NE
78.1 in Vegas
QBR in 2016 is 87.5 - this is the deflategate year, and he was opening day starter, it's his highest career QBR

Faithful, is 168 attempts not a big enough sample size to accurately judge a player?

I don't think 94 vs 168 are that different. Let's not keep one and toss the other, you can view both, and say they are both fairly small samples
I think JG has been poor this year, he looks washed up to me, to say I am trying to say the sample is so small it can't be regarded would be not accurate of my position WB

I am saying to say 168 = valid and 94 is too small a sample, is bogus.

I can't tell if you answered my question based off your phrasing but... okay?

Why is it like pulling teeth to get you to answer what about Jimmy's game has been affected by his injuries?

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I don't think 94 vs 168 are that different. Let's not keep one and toss the other, you can view both, and say they are both fairly small samples
I think JG has been poor this year, he looks washed up to me, to say I am trying to say the sample is so small it can't be regarded would be not accurate of my position WB

I am saying to say 168 = valid and 94 is too small a sample, is bogus.

Pick some plays and show how, lol. Show it in comparison to some plays from the last few years.

Good luck.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Why is it like pulling teeth to get you to answer what about Jimmy's game has been affected by his injuries?

I think the real answer to this is fairly easy. He cant come up with specific things about Jimmy's game that has been affected by injuries, because they dont exist. He is hiding behind the idea that "Jimmy is washed" because the alternative to this would be admitting that Jimmy has always been at best an average QB, but was propped up by Kyle Shanahan and the weapons he had here....which would basically be admitting he was wrong about virtually every argument he has had with you, I and others in this thread.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
It exposes how nonsensical an ask it is. If you want me to get data, surely you can do the same. Or do you admit, it's not from data as you claim, it's more from common sense / eye test. You have no data.

The market speaks volumes, he was worth a round 2 (2x), $137m, $71m, etc. If you are right, and he's the same now as he was, then his valuation should remain the same. I say you are essentially already demonstrated wrong. His value clearly fluctuates over time, $137m is a big difference from $71m, particularly when you factor $137m was a then record, you would have to go up to like $400m today. So contracts going up, and JGs value going down. Easy answer, he's not as good as he once was. I think in FA now he would get a lot less than $71m, would he even get an offer? That's him being washed.

He did well in NE with McD, that's where you take the L thinking it's simply a product of being with Shanny. Shanny had a lot of QBs who couldn't do half of what JG did. But those days are over..

Lol. He started two games. Had less than 100 pass attempts across his entire Patriots tenure. He was a virtual unknown beyond the fact that he was a decent prospect and had tutored in the best situation in the NFL.

We are talking 94 attempts in NE and 168 in LV, it's fairly small sample in both
106.2 rating in NE
78.1 in Vegas
QBR in 2016 is 87.5 - this is the deflategate year, and he was opening day starter, it's his highest career QBR

Faithful, is 168 attempts not a big enough sample size to accurately judge a player?

I don't think 94 vs 168 are that different. Let's not keep one and toss the other, you can view both, and say they are both fairly small samples
I think JG has been poor this year, he looks washed up to me, to say I am trying to say the sample is so small it can't be regarded would be not accurate of my position WB

I am saying to say 168 = valid and 94 is too small a sample, is bogus.

I can't tell if you answered my question based off your phrasing but... okay?

Why is it like pulling teeth to get you to answer what about Jimmy's game has been affected by his injuries?

Just watch the guy play, do you guys watch the other teams? Like Shanny says
Have you seen Dalvin Cook lately, he's trash. He had to publicly lobby for carries, cuz he was getting 3rd stringer to Hall and Carter. He's like why did I come here. So they cut Carter and Cook is garbage, he puts it on the ground. Here is Cook:

66-210-0
that's 3.2 ypc

Now applying the logic in here, he's the same guy, yet the McConnell system got him his production
so he always sucked, and was a product of McConnell / Zimmer
or you can just google Dalvin Cook shoulder, realize why MIN let him walk, and put 2 and 2 together.

I think this is kinda similar, both players have prior production, major injuries, and are now on the downside of things, to anyone with eyeballs, watching the games.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
It exposes how nonsensical an ask it is. If you want me to get data, surely you can do the same. Or do you admit, it's not from data as you claim, it's more from common sense / eye test. You have no data.

The market speaks volumes, he was worth a round 2 (2x), $137m, $71m, etc. If you are right, and he's the same now as he was, then his valuation should remain the same. I say you are essentially already demonstrated wrong. His value clearly fluctuates over time, $137m is a big difference from $71m, particularly when you factor $137m was a then record, you would have to go up to like $400m today. So contracts going up, and JGs value going down. Easy answer, he's not as good as he once was. I think in FA now he would get a lot less than $71m, would he even get an offer? That's him being washed.

He did well in NE with McD, that's where you take the L thinking it's simply a product of being with Shanny. Shanny had a lot of QBs who couldn't do half of what JG did. But those days are over..

Lol. He started two games. Had less than 100 pass attempts across his entire Patriots tenure. He was a virtual unknown beyond the fact that he was a decent prospect and had tutored in the best situation in the NFL.

We are talking 94 attempts in NE and 168 in LV, it's fairly small sample in both
106.2 rating in NE
78.1 in Vegas
QBR in 2016 is 87.5 - this is the deflategate year, and he was opening day starter, it's his highest career QBR

Faithful, is 168 attempts not a big enough sample size to accurately judge a player?

I don't think 94 vs 168 are that different. Let's not keep one and toss the other, you can view both, and say they are both fairly small samples
I think JG has been poor this year, he looks washed up to me, to say I am trying to say the sample is so small it can't be regarded would be not accurate of my position WB

I am saying to say 168 = valid and 94 is too small a sample, is bogus.

I can't tell if you answered my question based off your phrasing but... okay?

Why is it like pulling teeth to get you to answer what about Jimmy's game has been affected by his injuries?

Just watch the guy play, do you guys watch the other teams? Like Shanny says
Have you seen Dalvin Cook lately, he's trash. He had to publicly lobby for carries, cuz he was getting 3rd stringer to Hall and Carter. He's like why did I come here. So they cut Carter and Cook is garbage, he puts it on the ground. Here is Cook:

66-210-0
that's 3.2 ypc

Now applying the logic in here, he's the same guy, yet the McConnell system got him his production
so he always sucked, and was a product of McConnell / Zimmer
or you can just google Dalvin Cook shoulder, realize why MIN let him walk, and put 2 and 2 together.

I think this is kinda similar, both players have prior production, major injuries, and are now on the downside of things, to anyone with eyeballs, watching the games.

Anyone with eyeballs can see Jimmy's on the downside of things? No… You're vastly outnumbered here and you know that. Most people in this thread keep telling you for years that Jimmy was part of the reason we struggled to win a SB. You blamed the offensive line, a strong safety, the defense as a whole, Kyle Shanahan, everyone but Jimmy.

And the difference is, 1. QB and RB are obviously different positions, 2. You can see the lack of explosion in Cook's game that he used to have. Yet you can't see what's different about Jimmy's game, you keep saying you can, and yet you still haven't given any evidence for that. Saying "Watch the tape" is not evidence. Explaining how the injuries affected Jimmy on the tape would be, yet you keep refusing to do so.

Brock Purdy embodies everything that's wrong with Jimmy's game. Lack of mobility, reading defenses, deep ball accuracy, plays outside of structure… you can't keep assuming the only reason we moved on from Jimmy was injuries, or the only reason Jimmy struggles now are his injuries. And yet Kyle spent 3 first round picks on Trey Lance, a QB with a completely different skill set than Jimmy… if we wanted another version of Jimmy we would have drafted Mac Jones. But we wanted more of the things I just mentioned.

Whether it was 2017, 2019, 2023 or 2024, Jimmy has the exact same shortcomings. One person refuses to acknowledge them right now… and its you.

Comparing Jimmy to literally the best QB in the NFL right now is a ridiculously stupid argument lol. A lot of us know what Jimmy was. He's no Brock. Brock is outplaying every single QB right now. Let's give him credit for that instead of making it seem like Shanny is doing it all and that it's the system. It's borderline insulting to Brock. Brock is good because Brock is good. He's running the system better than Jimmy because he's a very very good QB. Sure the system is extremely helpful but Brock makes this system better too. You could put 95+% of the QBs in this scenario and Brock would outperform them.

Jimmy has flaws just like the other guys around him in the 12-15 range. That is why he's there. That didn't make him a s**tty QB but it definitely kept him from being an overly sought after piece. He's a decent QB. Why y'all have to spend so much time putting him down makes no sense.

Originally posted by MucketyMuck:
Comparing Jimmy to literally the best QB in the NFL right now is a ridiculously stupid argument lol. A lot of us know what Jimmy was. He's no Brock. Brock is outplaying every single QB right now. Let's give him credit for that instead of making it seem like Shanny is doing it all and that it's the system. It's borderline insulting to Brock. Brock is good because Brock is good. He's running the system better than Jimmy because he's a very very good QB. Sure the system is extremely helpful but Brock makes this system better too. You could put 95+% of the QBs in this scenario and Brock would outperform them.

Jimmy has flaws just like the other guys around him in the 12-15 range. That is why he's there. That didn't make him a s**tty QB but it definitely kept him from being an overly sought after piece. He's a decent QB. Why y'all have to spend so much time putting him down makes no sense.

So yeah none of this really has anything to do with the conversation we are all having.

Originally posted by MucketyMuck:
Comparing Jimmy to literally the best QB in the NFL right now is a ridiculously stupid argument lol. A lot of us know what Jimmy was. He's no Brock. Brock is outplaying every single QB right now. Let's give him credit for that instead of making it seem like Shanny is doing it all and that it's the system. It's borderline insulting to Brock. Brock is good because Brock is good. He's running the system better than Jimmy because he's a very very good QB. Sure the system is extremely helpful but Brock makes this system better too. You could put 95+% of the QBs in this scenario and Brock would outperform them.

Jimmy has flaws just like the other guys around him in the 12-15 range. That is why he's there. That didn't make him a s**tty QB but it definitely kept him from being an overly sought after piece. He's a decent QB. Why y'all have to spend so much time putting him down makes no sense.

Most of us would have Jimmy in the average starting QB bucket I think. I would have had him somewhere between 15-20 coming into the season probably. He's got some skills that worked well here with a great system and talent.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by MucketyMuck:
Comparing Jimmy to literally the best QB in the NFL right now is a ridiculously stupid argument lol. A lot of us know what Jimmy was. He's no Brock. Brock is outplaying every single QB right now. Let's give him credit for that instead of making it seem like Shanny is doing it all and that it's the system. It's borderline insulting to Brock. Brock is good because Brock is good. He's running the system better than Jimmy because he's a very very good QB. Sure the system is extremely helpful but Brock makes this system better too. You could put 95+% of the QBs in this scenario and Brock would outperform them.

Jimmy has flaws just like the other guys around him in the 12-15 range. That is why he's there. That didn't make him a s**tty QB but it definitely kept him from being an overly sought after piece. He's a decent QB. Why y'all have to spend so much time putting him down makes no sense.

Most of us would have Jimmy in the average starting QB bucket I think. I would have had him somewhere between 15-20 coming into the season probably. He's got some skills that worked well here with a great system and talent.

Jimmy is bottom tier / back up

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Jimmy is bottom tier / back up

Well I think he is heading towards back up as well, but that's not solely because of the quality of player he is today. It's also because he's fragile with no room for improvement and not good enough to be a factor on a contending team that isn't absolutely loaded.

So while I think he was* probably in the 15-20 range overall, I'd say he's a bottom tier starting option. You'd want the 15+ players who are better first, and you'd want to play young players who have room to grow next. If you have a loaded, championship level, team with no QB… maybe you'd give him a look with no other 'win now' option. That's similar to what we had. There really isn't another situation out there for him like that.

We'll be there in no time fellas!

Winning it all in Jimmy's stadium would be pretty sweet.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I think what we saw this year, is a guy in a boot all offseason, who couldn't do anything with his new team, so there's a learning / adjustment period, and McD thought he was getting the 2016/17 version, that's not who he is. McD is such a clown, he quickly alienated the entire club, with his shenanigans, you can listen to players talk about it, his silly motivational techniques, the players did an intervention on him. Once he was out, JG was out, as JG was a McD guy. McD can do the OC job, not the HC job.

Where you take the L on the this is how he looks without Kyle take, is he was without Kyle in college and in NE and he looked great, great enough to trade and sign to a massive deal..

Seriously? He looked great in college?

This had to be a troll job at this point.

Originally posted by MucketyMuck:
Comparing Jimmy to literally the best QB in the NFL right now is a ridiculously stupid argument lol. A lot of us know what Jimmy was. He's no Brock. Brock is outplaying every single QB right now. Let's give him credit for that instead of making it seem like Shanny is doing it all and that it's the system. It's borderline insulting to Brock. Brock is good because Brock is good. He's running the system better than Jimmy because he's a very very good QB. Sure the system is extremely helpful but Brock makes this system better too. You could put 95+% of the QBs in this scenario and Brock would outperform them.

Jimmy has flaws just like the other guys around him in the 12-15 range. That is why he's there. That didn't make him a s**tty QB but it definitely kept him from being an overly sought after piece. He's a decent QB. Why y'all have to spend so much time putting him down makes no sense.

No one is putting him down. The issue here is there is no chance Faithful will say he was the 15th best QB in the league who was helped to the levels he reached by Kyle. This whole threads last 20 pgs is just him being unwilling to admit he was wrong. Even Furlow managed that before starting his Brock is 80% of the 9ers success bs spin he's doing now. Why can't people just acknowledge they overvalued the guy massively? Doesn't mean he was terrible. He was just slightly above average. Like SWH Waterbear ant ATT said for years.

Kyle and Brock are elevating each other. Clear as day to see. It was never like that with Jimmy. Or any other QB for that matter.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I think what we saw this year, is a guy in a boot all offseason, who couldn't do anything with his new team, so there's a learning / adjustment period, and McD thought he was getting the 2016/17 version, that's not who he is. McD is such a clown, he quickly alienated the entire club, with his shenanigans, you can listen to players talk about it, his silly motivational techniques, the players did an intervention on him. Once he was out, JG was out, as JG was a McD guy. McD can do the OC job, not the HC job.

Where you take the L on the this is how he looks without Kyle take, is he was without Kyle in college and in NE and he looked great, great enough to trade and sign to a massive deal..

Seriously? He looked great in college?

This had to be a troll job at this point.

it's all he's doing or maybe he's related to 9moon, Buzz and NC