Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Pumping up a FedEx player of the week nominee. I'd say I was surprised but I am not. Smh

from FEPOTW to the towel boy.. sad

where does the sad part come in, I'm having a hard time with that
this is how careers go, you start as a prospect, you develop and earn your way to a QB1, and you have your time, it's no longer his time, he's past his time and prime

You said that about Russell Wilson too and he's played well this year with better coaching.

Shocking you don't see the irony.

You are never clear with what you are communicating. What was said about Russ?

Russ sucks, he's overrated if you think he's doing good or great. He's been pretty trash this year. The D in Denver is the reason why they are doing anything. They held KC to 9. Now if you want to say Sean P is > Hackett, no doubt about it.. But they are winning by hiding Russ, DEN is 30th in attempts, and they beat KC with 19 passes, that's the blueprint, run the ball, play D, don't ask Russ to do a whole lot..

And before someone chimes in with the predictable, we don't throw with Brock, well KS never throws a ton, Sean P was leading the NFL in pass attempts, in his Saints era.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
You are never clear with what you are communicating. What was said about Russ?

Russ sucks, he's overrated if you think he's doing good or great. He's been pretty trash this year. The D in Denver is the reason why they are doing anything. They held KC to 9. Now if you want to say Sean P is > Hackett, no doubt about it.. But they are winning by hiding Russ, DEN is 30th in attempts, and they beat KC with 19 passes, that's the blueprint, run the ball, play D, don't ask Russ to do a whole lot..

And before someone chimes in with the predictable, we don't throw with Brock, well KS never throws a ton, Sean P was leading the NFL in pass attempts, in his Saints era.

Lol, you're not watching a lot of Broncos games I take it. I don't think Wilson as been good to great either but the idea that they are winning because of defense is a pretty big stretch.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
You are never clear with what you are communicating. What was said about Russ?

Russ sucks, he's overrated if you think he's doing good or great. He's been pretty trash this year. The D in Denver is the reason why they are doing anything. They held KC to 9. Now if you want to say Sean P is > Hackett, no doubt about it.. But they are winning by hiding Russ, DEN is 30th in attempts, and they beat KC with 19 passes, that's the blueprint, run the ball, play D, don't ask Russ to do a whole lot..

And before someone chimes in with the predictable, we don't throw with Brock, well KS never throws a ton, Sean P was leading the NFL in pass attempts, in his Saints era.

Lol, you're not watching a lot of Broncos games I take it. I don't think Wilson as been good to great either but the idea that they are winning because of defense is a pretty big stretch.

some reading material, let me know if you would like any additional citations

"Broncos defensive DVOA went from worst to one of the NFL's best
The Denver Broncos ranked dead last in defensive DVOA through the first five games, but are 6th in DVOA over their last five."
-SB Nation

Over their last seven games, the Broncos are giving up just 15.6 points per game.
this would actually be ahead of the 49ers, who are #1 at 15.8

this is from the Broncos site:
DEFINING STATISTIC

0-of-12.

The Broncos' defense posted a dominant performance against the Chargers, as the unit held Los Angeles to 0-of-12 on third down to start the game. The Broncos also stopped the Chargers on five of six fourth-down attempts. The Broncos entered Week 14 with the league's fourth-best third-down defense and were dominant against the Chargers' offense.

here's an article, the title is how the Broncos defense turned disaster into dominance, it's from yesterday
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39100295/denver-broncos-defense-justin-simmons-playoff-hopes

a takeaway from that article is here:

The Broncos, despite having five takeaways in the first five games combined, are now tied for the league-lead in takeaways with 24 and lead the league in forced fumbles with 13.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
You are never clear with what you are communicating. What was said about Russ?

Russ sucks, he's overrated if you think he's doing good or great. He's been pretty trash this year. The D in Denver is the reason why they are doing anything. They held KC to 9. Now if you want to say Sean P is > Hackett, no doubt about it.. But they are winning by hiding Russ, DEN is 30th in attempts, and they beat KC with 19 passes, that's the blueprint, run the ball, play D, don't ask Russ to do a whole lot..

And before someone chimes in with the predictable, we don't throw with Brock, well KS never throws a ton, Sean P was leading the NFL in pass attempts, in his Saints era.

Lol, you're not watching a lot of Broncos games I take it. I don't think Wilson as been good to great either but the idea that they are winning because of defense is a pretty big stretch.

some reading material, let me know if you would like any additional citations

"Broncos defensive DVOA went from worst to one of the NFL's best
The Denver Broncos ranked dead last in defensive DVOA through the first five games, but are 6th in DVOA over their last five."
-SB Nation

Over their last seven games, the Broncos are giving up just 15.6 points per game.
this would actually be ahead of the 49ers, who are #1 at 15.8

this is from the Broncos site:
DEFINING STATISTIC

0-of-12.

The Broncos' defense posted a dominant performance against the Chargers, as the unit held Los Angeles to 0-of-12 on third down to start the game. The Broncos also stopped the Chargers on five of six fourth-down attempts. The Broncos entered Week 14 with the league's fourth-best third-down defense and were dominant against the Chargers' offense.

here's an article, the title is how the Broncos defense turned disaster into dominance, it's from yesterday
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39100295/denver-broncos-defense-justin-simmons-playoff-hopes

a takeaway from that article is here:

The Broncos, despite having five takeaways in the first five games combined, are now tied for the league-lead in takeaways with 24 and lead the league in forced fumbles with 13.

sounds like the 49ers and jimmy g era... thanks for confirming the defense carried jimmy like the broncos carrying Russ

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
some reading material, let me know if you would like any additional citations

"Broncos defensive DVOA went from worst to one of the NFL's best
The Denver Broncos ranked dead last in defensive DVOA through the first five games, but are 6th in DVOA over their last five."
-SB Nation

Over their last seven games, the Broncos are giving up just 15.6 points per game.
this would actually be ahead of the 49ers, who are #1 at 15.8

this is from the Broncos site:
DEFINING STATISTIC

0-of-12.

The Broncos' defense posted a dominant performance against the Chargers, as the unit held Los Angeles to 0-of-12 on third down to start the game. The Broncos also stopped the Chargers on five of six fourth-down attempts. The Broncos entered Week 14 with the league's fourth-best third-down defense and were dominant against the Chargers' offense.

here's an article, the title is how the Broncos defense turned disaster into dominance, it's from yesterday
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39100295/denver-broncos-defense-justin-simmons-playoff-hopes

a takeaway from that article is here:

The Broncos, despite having five takeaways in the first five games combined, are now tied for the league-lead in takeaways with 24 and lead the league in forced fumbles with 13.

Broncos last five games faced two good offenses (one win, one loss) and 3 of the five teams were missing their starting QBs. Broncos offense for the entire* season is in the top 15 in ppg, and top 10 in points per play. I'd argue both units are probably right around league average.

Why didn't you cite DVOA in the Wilks thread when people were upset with the defense's performance through the Vikings and/or Bengals game? It was strictly a reliance on PPG when DVOA had us middle of the pack.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Broncos last five games faced two good offenses (one win, one loss) and 3 of the five teams were missing their starting QBs. Broncos offense for the entire* season is in the top 15 in ppg, and top 10 in points per play. I'd argue both units are probably right around league average.

Why didn't you cite DVOA in the Wilks thread when people were upset with the defense's performance through the Vikings and/or Bengals game? It was strictly a reliance on PPG when DVOA had us middle of the pack.

I'm citing SB Nation, I don't know where the DVOA is located
some of that advanced stat stuff is a mystery to me, I mostly watch the games

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I'm citing SB Nation, I don't know where the DVOA is located
some of that advanced stat stuff is a mystery to me, I mostly watch the games

Well why are you making the case that the Broncos success is because of their defense, when your own source is telling you they were dead last in defense through the first six games? Those games counted.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Broncos last five games faced two good offenses (one win, one loss) and 3 of the five teams were missing their starting QBs. Broncos offense for the entire* season is in the top 15 in ppg, and top 10 in points per play. I'd argue both units are probably right around league average.

Why didn't you cite DVOA in the Wilks thread when people were upset with the defense's performance through the Vikings and/or Bengals game? It was strictly a reliance on PPG when DVOA had us middle of the pack.

I do think a lot of what they are doing, is smoke and mirrors. They cut F Clark and of course gave us Gregory. Just playing the kids, and showing some effort and hoping to scheme their way off the field. I think their turnaround is one of the most incredible stories of the season. I expect it to vanish at any moment, as it seems hard to believe a D that bad, that gave up 70, can turn around like this, with mostly who are these guys. It's been Singleton, McMillan, Bonitto, Cooper, etc. They do appear to have had some luck, like Mahomes wasn't feeling well, and Herbert got hurt, etc. But it is, what it is. I think the D is doing it for them, in terms of winning games. Russ looks like a train wreck, holding the ball, inviting pressure, and hoping to ad lib his way out of it, kinda like always, but he's not as spry as he once was. Also his receivers can't get separation, outside of Mims, who is raw and doesn't know what he's doing. Jeudy sucks. The ground game and backs are good. Jimmy I thought at one time, might be favored by Sean P, due to their connections, but Russ probably gets another year, cuz of the contract..

Originally posted by RiceOwensStokes:
Literally never happened

They were moving on so yes it did happen.

Want to argue whether it was merited or not is a different discussion. But he was absolutely dethroned.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I'm citing SB Nation, I don't know where the DVOA is located
some of that advanced stat stuff is a mystery to me, I mostly watch the games

Well why are you making the case that the Broncos success is because of their defense, when your own source is telling you they were dead last in defense through the first six games? Those games counted.

My view is the DEN D that gave up 70 isn't here anymore, they are a lot better now
teams evolve / change over the course of a season
notice they had Russ early season, and were losing, 1-5
so they turned around as a team, when the D found itself

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
My view is the DEN D that gave up 70 isn't here anymore, they are a lot better now
teams evolve / change over the course of a season
notice they had Russ early season, and were losing, 1-5
so they turned around as a team, when the D found itself

Well yah can't be giving up 70 and expect to win.

9ers D found themselves after the bye too.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
My view is the DEN D that gave up 70 isn't here anymore, they are a lot better now
teams evolve / change over the course of a season
notice they had Russ early season, and were losing, 1-5
so they turned around as a team, when the D found itself

Right, the league's worst defense through the first 6 games of the season (according to the stat you want to use) is now playing much better in a stretch of games against mostly bad offenses that are missing their starting QB's. You think you'd realize their record would be much better if their defense wasn't so terrible through a major chunk of the season.

Russ is a top 10 qb in terms of passer rating and right at league average in terms of QBR. Understanding that passer rating is a team influenced stat, and combining the top 10 passer rating with top 15 in ppg and top 10 in ppp ought to show you that their offense is at least solid. So while you're sitting here saying they had Russ when they were 1-5 the more important point is they had this absolutely awful defense when they were 1-5. They are no longer awful and costing them games.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
My view is the DEN D that gave up 70 isn't here anymore, they are a lot better now
teams evolve / change over the course of a season
notice they had Russ early season, and were losing, 1-5
so they turned around as a team, when the D found itself

Right, the league's worst defense through the first 6 games of the season (according to the stat you want to use) is now playing much better in a stretch of games against mostly bad offenses that are missing their starting QB's. You think you'd realize their record would be much better if their defense wasn't so terrible through a major chunk of the season.

Russ is a top 10 qb in terms of passer rating and right at league average in terms of QBR. Understanding that passer rating is a team influenced stat, and combining the top 10 passer rating with top 15 in ppg and top 10 in ppp ought to show you that their offense is at least solid. So while you're sitting here saying they had Russ when they were 1-5 the more important point is they had this absolutely awful defense when they were 1-5. They are no longer awful and costing them games.

we can agree to disagree
this is from recently,
I don't think Sean P would roll with Russ, but for the contract, he's trying his best to minimize Russ's role in the proceedings


"First off, let's talk about how many times you run yourself into trouble," Schlereth said. "How many times do you escape out of the back of the pocket. How many times do you allow yourself to be forced out of a play, you scramble and you make a few yards, and everybody lauds you on your ability to get out of there. You're the one who put yourself into trouble.

"It's Tim Tebow-esque when you talk about 55 minutes of dreck, and we're gonna praise you for the five minutes of play at the end of the game? You're the one that started the inferno. If you start the fire and you finally douse the ashes with water, you're not the hero for putting the fire out. When it's burned through all the fuel and it no longer can burn anything, and it's just ash, you't don't get credit for putting it out when you throw a bucket of water on ashes.

"So, the amount of times you create the pressure, you create the sack."

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
we can agree to disagree
this is from recently,
I don't think Sean P would roll with Russ, but for the contract, he's trying his best to minimize Russ's role in the proceedings

.@markschlereth dissected Russell Wilson's performance against Houston, and the @NFLonFOX and @DenverSportsCom analyst didn't mince words.

"I could get a quarterback from Smoky Hill High School to do what Russ does. … It just was bad. It was awful." pic.twitter.com/IjA4GnhhpW

— Andrew Mason (@MaseDenver) December 6, 2023

"First off, let's talk about how many times you run yourself into trouble," Schlereth said. "How many times do you escape out of the back of the pocket. How many times do you allow yourself to be forced out of a play, you scramble and you make a few yards, and everybody lauds you on your ability to get out of there. You're the one who put yourself into trouble.

"It's Tim Tebow-esque when you talk about 55 minutes of dreck, and we're gonna praise you for the five minutes of play at the end of the game? You're the one that started the inferno. If you start the fire and you finally douse the ashes with water, you're not the hero for putting the fire out. When it's burned through all the fuel and it no longer can burn anything, and it's just ash, you't don't get credit for putting it out when you throw a bucket of water on ashes.

"So, the amount of times you create the pressure, you create the sack."

Again I'm not disagreeing with your point that Russ isn't playing good to great. Waterbear's point was that Russ is playing better with better coaching, which is undeniably true. He also said Russ was playing 'well', which is a very general word open to some intepretation.

I'm disagreeing with your claim that the Broncos are winning because of their defense… because their offense has been decent throughout the year and their defense was comically bad early. They're finally pulling their weight is about the best case you could make.

I also just think the whole point is odd because I wouldn't jump to team results necessarily when someone is trying to make an argument about how a qb is playing. This is kind of the crux of the problems in any Jimmy argument.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Again I'm not disagreeing with your point that Russ isn't playing good to great. Waterbear's point was that Russ is playing better with better coaching, which is undeniably true. He also said Russ was playing 'well', which is a very general word open to some intepretation.

I'm disagreeing with your claim that the Broncos are winning because of their defense… because their offense has been decent throughout the year and their defense was comically bad early. They're finally pulling their weight is about the best case you could make.

I also just think the whole point is odd because I wouldn't jump to team results necessarily when someone is trying to make an argument about how a qb is playing. This is kind of the crux of the problems in any Jimmy argument.

And unfortunately, the person you are arguing with flip flops on wins vs. stats depending on the QB in question.