Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:
Jimmy had his best year last season since 2017 since his. I even gave him props

A broken foot doesn't make you go from decent to s**t. Just went to show how much our team and Kyle protected him. You have guys like Kittle saying as well how much better our QB play is now. He was a decent QB that's all.

Yup I saw that subtle shot Kittle took at Jimmy lol

If Jimmy actually spent the offseason training and trying to get better maybe we would've won a SB. But he rather be out partying and ignoring everyones phone calls since he's such a big shot. Good for him he got a bunch of money that he didn't deserve, he's not the first or will be the last in any profession.

Man I don't think it's arrogance. He's just a simple guy living his best life. Dude is close with his family, is indifferent to the spotlight and likes f**king b***hes. I can't fault him for that.

breakdown per the mailbag of Silver and Black Pride:

Q: What are the salary cap ramifications of cutting Jimmy Garoppolo after the season is over? I've heard some say it would have to be after June 1st why is that?

A: The best way I can explain this is the Raiders are going to have to take on about $28.3 million in dead cap space to cut Garoppolo this offseason, it's just a matter of how they want to split that money up.

Per Spotrac, with a pre-June 1 release, the team will take on the entire amount in dead cap space this offseason with a little less than $200k in savings. But, if they want to split it up, they can use a post-June 1 designation and take on about $15.5 million in dead cap this year and then about $12.8 million in 2025.

So, it's just a matter of whether the organization wants to take the hit upfront and have more money for free agency in 2025, or if they want the savings now to add a key player or two this offseason.

If the Raiders/the new general manager doesn't think the team will be active in free agency this offseason, then taking the dead cap hit now would make sense so they have more money to play with the following spring. But if they do want to go after free agents in 2024, then spreading out the hit would be the move.

The reason for the difference between pre- and post-June 1 was explained well by Pro Football Network's Dallas Robinson.

Let's start with a straightforward NFL release that occurs at the beginning of the new league year in March. If a team cuts a player at any point before June 1, all of his future guarantees and his remaining prorated signing bonus will immediately "accelerate" onto the clubs' salary cap.

The team is forced to account for all of those charges at once, and the cap space being allocated toward a player no longer on the roster is referred to as "dead money."

However, the NFL's post-June 1 rule states that any player released or traded after June 1 will have his dead money spread over two seasons instead of only the current campaign.

The other aspect at play here is the league allows teams to release a player with a post-June 1 designation at the beginning of free agency and the player immediately becomes a free agent and can sign with another club. However, the catch is that the team that released said player still doesn't get the cap relief until June 2. The club just gets to avoid paying any roster bonuses that might kick in between the end of the season and June.

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Young2Owens:
Jimmy is the ex you guys just can't stop talking about

Heh, more like the first time for the younger crowd that never experienced good QB play since Garcia and Young. I think he'll eventually wind up on another good team, possibly Seattle. Now that would just blow my mind if that happened.

The Seahawks would not dump Geno for a downgrade at QB.

You basically make my point for me. 2016/17 JG >>>> Geno
yet Geno > 2023 JG, these things change over time, players are not static objects

I do think SEA needs to move on
probably draft a QB and Geno is a bridge for a year or so
JG has had a better career, than Geno

Jimmy had his best year last season since 2017 since his. I even gave him props

A broken foot doesn't make you go from decent to s**t. Just went to show how much our team and Kyle protected him. You have guys like Kittle saying as well how much better our QB play is now. He was a decent QB that's all.

To me, Jimmy was always a starting-level NFL QB. With enough talent and playcalling, you can win with him.
But there's a difference between the "elite" level QB's and the average NFL starter.

The difference shows in playoff games, and it shows when there's not enough talent. The Raiders simply didn't have what he needed to do well.
If they cut him, I'm confident that if he goes to a team with a decent surrounding cast, he'll do okay IF he's healthy. (Health is my major question mark for him).

Originally posted by Wubbie:
To me, Jimmy was always a starting-level NFL QB. With enough talent and playcalling, you can win with him.
But there's a difference between the "elite" level QB's and the average NFL starter.

The difference shows in playoff games, and it shows when there's not enough talent. The Raiders simply didn't have what he needed to do well.
If they cut him, I'm confident that if he goes to a team with a decent surrounding cast, he'll do okay IF he's healthy. (Health is my major question mark for him).

To me LV has a lot, they just put up a fat score, tho granted LAC was quitting on their HC. But Adams, the rook Tucker, Jacobs when healthy, the rook TE, Meyers, it's a wealth of weapons, not even mentioning Renfrow. Now he didn't really have any rhythm / timing with those guys, and the team as a whole, quit on McD similarly to how LAC quit on Staley. The team hated McD and staged an intervention. this is cuz McD has no playing experience, has a hard time relating to players, and is a whiny b if you have ever heard him mic'd up. So he commands the respect of no one, and that's hard to build a team around. JG having the foot and no real offseason to build that rhythm is an issue also. But he's not the same guy he once was. We saw McD already with JG and the result was a lot better, but that was many surgeries / years ago. I think his career is walking off hole 18 into the clubhouse.

Using the Jimmy in NE standard Jake Browning is a stud.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
To me LV has a lot, they just put up a fat score, tho granted LAC was quitting on their HC. But Adams, the rook Tucker, Jacobs when healthy, the rook TE, Meyers, it's a wealth of weapons, not even mentioning Renfrow. Now he didn't really have any rhythm / timing with those guys, and the team as a whole, quit on McD similarly to how LAC quit on Staley. The team hated McD and staged an intervention. this is cuz McD has no playing experience, has a hard time relating to players, and is a whiny b if you have ever heard him mic'd up. So he commands the respect of no one, and that's hard to build a team around. JG having the foot and no real offseason to build that rhythm is an issue also. But he's not the same guy he once was. We saw McD already with JG and the result was a lot better, but that was many surgeries / years ago. I think his career is walking off hole 18 into the clubhouse.

Lol. I honestly hope you're trolling with the points about Jimmy G and McDaniels time together in New England.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Lol. I honestly hope you're trolling with the points about Jimmy G and McDaniels time together in New England.

He's not. That 6 1/2 game sample in 16/17 was the real Jimmy. Ignore everything else.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
To me LV has a lot, they just put up a fat score, tho granted LAC was quitting on their HC. But Adams, the rook Tucker, Jacobs when healthy, the rook TE, Meyers, it's a wealth of weapons, not even mentioning Renfrow. Now he didn't really have any rhythm / timing with those guys, and the team as a whole, quit on McD similarly to how LAC quit on Staley. The team hated McD and staged an intervention. this is cuz McD has no playing experience, has a hard time relating to players, and is a whiny b if you have ever heard him mic'd up. So he commands the respect of no one, and that's hard to build a team around. JG having the foot and no real offseason to build that rhythm is an issue also. But he's not the same guy he once was. We saw McD already with JG and the result was a lot better, but that was many surgeries / years ago. I think his career is walking off hole 18 into the clubhouse.

Lol. I honestly hope you're trolling with the points about Jimmy G and McDaniels time together in New England.

He looked good enough for Shanalynch to invest the early rnd 2 selection, and they knew his contract was expiring, the draft investment went a long way toward the contract, now he played so well in 2017, the contract became a record deal, this is all reality. It's more or less indisputable that he played better in 2016/2017 than in 2023.

We are talking QBRs in the mid 80s, over 7 starts, over 200 attempts, or larger sample than 2023.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Lol. I honestly hope you're trolling with the points about Jimmy G and McDaniels time together in New England.

He's not. That 6 1/2 game sample in 16/17 was the real Jimmy. Ignore everything else.

It's all 'the real Jimmy'
I might be the only one using logic to determine that yes, Jimmy with a ton of surg < Jimmy without a ton of surg
Let's get real, I don't think he's very good anymore, you all say he is? Fat chance. so you want to say he was never good, well that's not true either, now is it?

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
He looked good enough for Shanalynch to invest the early rnd 2 selection, and they knew his contract was expiring, the draft investment went a long way toward the contract, now he played so well in 2017, the contract became a record deal, this is all reality. It's more or less indisputable that he played better in 2016/2017 than in 2023.

We are talking QBRs in the mid 80s, over 7 starts, over 200 attempts, or larger sample than 2023.

You have a tiny sample size to base your argument on from 2016/17. How was he looking first three games in '18? (Hint: not very good).

Again nobody isn't arguing that he lost a little mobility with the ACL tear in 17. What people are arguing, and what you haven't substantiated at all, is that Jimmy is now a physically damaged or different player than he was with us from 2019- now. His stats were better in those years because he was here, in an elite QB friendly system, with elite talent around him, and a dominant run game.

80 plus QBR players that are established don't get traded period… and certainly not for 2nd round picks. He was drafted as second rounder, and got a couple years backup experience in the best situation in the league. Of course he went for a 2nd rounder. Why would it be more or less? It had nothing to do with any concrete analysis of what he was as a player after two starts, lol. He was a prospect.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
It's all 'the real Jimmy'
I might be the only one using logic to determine that yes, Jimmy with a ton of surg < Jimmy without a ton of surg
Let's get real, I don't think he's very good anymore, you all say he is? Fat chance. so you want to say he was never good, well that's not true either, now is it?

It's not a matter of logic. It's a matter of evidence. You're not providing any other than his stats aren't as good. There are many factors for that. Being broken down is not one. Provide evidence in the play. Show someone else who's breaking down film and seeing it.

A 28 QBR in his first three starts in '18. With a full offseason in the system and no injury issues. Why would that matter less than a two start sample in NE over four years?

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
He looked good enough for Shanalynch to invest the early rnd 2 selection, and they knew his contract was expiring, the draft investment went a long way toward the contract, now he played so well in 2017, the contract became a record deal, this is all reality. It's more or less indisputable that he played better in 2016/2017 than in 2023.

We are talking QBRs in the mid 80s, over 7 starts, over 200 attempts, or larger sample than 2023.

You have a tiny sample size to base your argument on from 2016/17. How was he looking first three games in '18? (Hint: not very good).

Again nobody isn't arguing that he lost a little mobility with the ACL tear in 17. What people are arguing, and what you haven't substantiated at all, is that Jimmy is now a physically damaged or different player than he was with us from 2019- now. His stats were better in those years because he was here, in an elite QB friendly system, with elite talent around him, and a dominant run game.

80 plus QBR players that are established don't get traded period… and certainly not for 2nd round picks. He was drafted as second rounder, and got a couple years backup experience in the best situation in the league. Of course he went for a 2nd rounder. Why would it be more or less? It had nothing to do with any concrete analysis of what he was as a player after two starts, lol. He was a prospect.

2023 is less snaps than the 2016/2017 snaps. 2016 was with McD, 2017 was playing backyard ball more or less, as a midseason acquisition. Reasonable to ask why after a full offseason with KS, did the production go down in 2018? If the logic is well he's getting hooked up with KS and the numbers are better, you would expect after that full offseason with Kyle some better numbers. But it didn't happen, small sample tho, cuz he gets injured before the ink dries on the record deal. 2019 he played well, as he did 2021. But stacking a ton of injuries by this time, injured most all 2020, stretch run 2021, most all 2022 offseason, stretch run of 2022 and most all 23 offseason.

I think missed time, hurts in a two fold way, one you lose the work you would have been able to put in with your guys, should you have been healthy. Two, your body changes over time, this happens with age, but injury accelerates. It's why Vander Esch is considering retirement, Shaq Leonard and Dalvin Cook got cut. Happens with QBs also. This is Andrew Luck: "His shoulder injury in 2015 changed everything for Luck;, and while he the quarterback in him didn't appreciate that at the time, it seems safe to say that Luck is content now. "

So basically Luck had a shoulder and the team said he's fully recovered, cuz of course they do, but Luck says it never got back to what it was. You see this with Brees also, he can't even throw right handed. That stuff is common, and contact, particularly hard contact is the driver. Look at how JG played the position, not taking the boundary vs KC, absorbing a lot of contact thru refusal to throw away, it's how he played, and I didn't like that aspect of his game, I suspected it would lead to a shorter career, and that's what we are probably seeing. I think he'll retire.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
2023 is less snaps than the 2016/2017 snaps. 2016 was with McD, 2017 was playing backyard ball more or less, as a midseason acquisition. Reasonable to ask why after a full offseason with KS, did the production go down in 2018? If the logic is well he's getting hooked up with KS and the numbers are better, you would expect after that full offseason with Kyle some better numbers. But it didn't happen, small sample tho, cuz he gets injured before the ink dries on the record deal. 2019 he played well, as he did 2021. But stacking a ton of injuries by this time, injured most all 2020, stretch run 2021, most all 2022 offseason, stretch run of 2022 and most all 23 offseason.

I think missed time, hurts in a two fold way, one you lose the work you would have been able to put in with your guys, should you have been healthy. Two, your body changes over time, this happens with age, but injury accelerates. It's why Vander Esch is considering retirement, Shaq Leonard and Dalvin Cook got cut. Happens with QBs also. This is Andrew Luck: "His shoulder injury in 2015 changed everything for Luck;, and while he the quarterback in him didn't appreciate that at the time, it seems safe to say that Luck is content now. "

So basically Luck had a shoulder and the team said he's fully recovered, cuz of course they do, but Luck says it never got back to what it was. You see this with Brees also, he can't even throw right handed. That stuff is common, and contact, particularly hard contact is the driver. Look at how JG played the position, not taking the boundary vs KC, absorbing a lot of contact thru refusal to throw away, it's how he played, and I didn't like that aspect of his game, I suspected it would lead to a shorter career, and that's what we are probably seeing. I think he'll retire.

There is zero evidence in this post supporting your argument. Show examples in his play where a physical limitation, that didn't exist from 19 until now, was the reason for a failure of execution. It's simply not there. It's Jimmy making the same mental mistakes over and over again, with less margin for error on a team that had to depend on him more.

Side note: it's not reasonable to ask why production in 2018 went into the gutter precisely because its a tiny sample. What is reasonable to ask is why you wouldn't include it when the rest of your argument hinges on another tiny sample… especially so in his time in NE.

You've made points against McDaniels as a quality coach. You're using a two start sample from JG's time with McD as support for your argument. Now being presented with this awful three game sample from 18 you're going to say either its too small a sample (which is hypocritical) or that maybe Kyle and the team wasn't doing a good job? I mean come on man…

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
2023 is less snaps than the 2016/2017 snaps. 2016 was with McD, 2017 was playing backyard ball more or less, as a midseason acquisition. Reasonable to ask why after a full offseason with KS, did the production go down in 2018? If the logic is well he's getting hooked up with KS and the numbers are better, you would expect after that full offseason with Kyle some better numbers. But it didn't happen, small sample tho, cuz he gets injured before the ink dries on the record deal. 2019 he played well, as he did 2021. But stacking a ton of injuries by this time, injured most all 2020, stretch run 2021, most all 2022 offseason, stretch run of 2022 and most all 23 offseason.

I think missed time, hurts in a two fold way, one you lose the work you would have been able to put in with your guys, should you have been healthy. Two, your body changes over time, this happens with age, but injury accelerates. It's why Vander Esch is considering retirement, Shaq Leonard and Dalvin Cook got cut. Happens with QBs also. This is Andrew Luck: "His shoulder injury in 2015 changed everything for Luck;, and while he the quarterback in him didn't appreciate that at the time, it seems safe to say that Luck is content now. "

So basically Luck had a shoulder and the team said he's fully recovered, cuz of course they do, but Luck says it never got back to what it was. You see this with Brees also, he can't even throw right handed. That stuff is common, and contact, particularly hard contact is the driver. Look at how JG played the position, not taking the boundary vs KC, absorbing a lot of contact thru refusal to throw away, it's how he played, and I didn't like that aspect of his game, I suspected it would lead to a shorter career, and that's what we are probably seeing. I think he'll retire.

There is zero evidence in this post supporting your argument. Show examples in his play where a physical limitation, that didn't exist from 19 until now, was the reason for a failure of execution. It's simply not there. It's Jimmy making the same mental mistakes over and over again, with less margin for error on a team that had to depend on him more.

Side note: it's not reasonable to ask why production in 2018 went into the gutter precisely because its a tiny sample. What is reasonable to ask is why you wouldn't include it when the rest of your argument hinges on another tiny sample… especially so in his time in NE.

You've made points against McDaniels as a quality coach. You're using a two start sample from JG's time with McD as support for your argument. Now being presented with this awful three game sample from 18 you're going to say either its too small a sample (which is hypocritical) or that maybe Kyle and the team wasn't doing a good job? I mean come on man…

Realize your commentary on 2023, is based on less of a sample than 2016-2018. And you use it nonetheless. I am of the position you can use all the data, and you can preface with small sample size disclaimers. Certainly when SF is making the trade, they are using the data, and reviewing the film, what they have to go off of at least. If you have a game, you look at that game.

McD can do X's and O's. He cannot lead a team of men. So he's at best OC material imo.