Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Nah I dont agree with that. Russ is benched for financial reasons. If he didnt have a ton of money owed to him, he wouldnt be on the bench. Jimmy is on the bench because of inept QB play. Thats not the same as Russ. Russ isnt the same guy as he was (which is evident from watching his games and seeing the deterioration of his athletic skills), but the season he is having would mirror one of Jimmy's best seasons of his career.

The play isn't the same. But neither could run the offense to the level the oftense needs.

I don't think Russ has detorated much at all. The scheme just demands you read the field and that's never been his skillset. Payton wants a guy like Brock who can see the field. Isn't gonna do what Philly is doing.

Its very obvious Russ' fastball isnt what it was, he isnt as agile, he isnt as fast....which is exactly what you would expect from a QB who is washed up.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
It was a terrible idea. Payton didn't make that choice though.

Russ is an MVP candidate in the same way Hurts was. If you have a super team around them that allows them to only do what they are good at they succeed. The moment they can't just backyard football everything they struggle.

25 year old Russ would look the exact same in Denver.

Winning with backyard football always has its limits.

Yeah see I dont agree with this either. Other than the first part where Payton wasnt the one who chose Russ...he inherited him. Wilson used to be a good QB. He no longer is. He had a decent season this year (wasnt bad), but clearly Payton wants better.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Nah I dont agree with that. Russ is benched for financial reasons. If he didnt have a ton of money owed to him, he wouldnt be on the bench. Jimmy is on the bench because of inept QB play. Thats not the same as Russ. Russ isnt the same guy as he was (which is evident from watching his games and seeing the deterioration of his athletic skills), but the season he is having would mirror one of Jimmy's best seasons of his career.

The play isn't the same. But neither could run the offense to the level the oftense needs.

I don't think Russ has detorated much at all. The scheme just demands you read the field and that's never been his skillset. Payton wants a guy like Brock who can see the field. Isn't gonna do what Philly is doing.

Its very obvious Russ' fastball isnt what it was, he isnt as agile, he isnt as fast....which is exactly what you would expect from a QB who is washed up.

This coming from the guy who spent much of the year debating me, that Russ is playing well. Not from what I was watching. DEN was hard to watch on O, particularly pass O.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Hes never read Ds. Kinds like your favorite guy. Now he needs to and he's failing because he doesn't have the cast and scheme to hide it. Kinda like your guy.

I agree that he has never really been an in the pocket read the field type QB. But I dont agree that his team hid that. He hasnt always had a top tier guy like DK. He was winning with players like Doug Baldwin (quality, but not close to elite). I hate Russ as much as any Niner fan, but you gotta give credit where credit is due. He had a lot of elite seasons. Comparing him to Jimmy Garoppolo is underselling him by a TON. Even if you are just comparing what you saw this season. Russ had a decent season. Good season, if you are comparing it to last season.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I agree that he has never really been an in the pocket read the field type QB. But I dont agree that his team hid that. He hasnt always had a top tier guy like DK. He was winning with players like Doug Baldwin (quality, but not close to elite). I hate Russ as much as any Niner fan, but you gotta give credit where credit is due. He had a lot of elite seasons. Comparing him to Jimmy Garoppolo is underselling him by a TON. Even if you are just comparing what you saw this season. Russ had a decent season. Good season, if you are comparing it to last season.

Oh he's better than Jimmy. But they have similar flaws. Those flaws are being exposed without what they used to have.

He was winning with Marshawn and an elite defense that carried him. Didn't trail by more than 7 for like 4 years. I see him just like Hurts. Got some.skills but are given way too much credit when it's the rest of the team doing the heavy lifting.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I agree that he has never really been an in the pocket read the field type QB. But I dont agree that his team hid that. He hasnt always had a top tier guy like DK. He was winning with players like Doug Baldwin (quality, but not close to elite). I hate Russ as much as any Niner fan, but you gotta give credit where credit is due. He had a lot of elite seasons. Comparing him to Jimmy Garoppolo is underselling him by a TON. Even if you are just comparing what you saw this season. Russ had a decent season. Good season, if you are comparing it to last season.

Oh he's better than Jimmy. But they have similar flaws. Those flaws are being exposed without what they used to have.

He was winning with Marshawn and an elite defense that carried him. Didn't trail by more than 7 for like 4 years. I see him just like Hurts. Got some.skills but are given way too much credit when it's the rest of the team doing the heavy lifting.

These takes are silly, cuz realize the market value that JG and Russ have had. Realize the trade value on the Russ deal. Then let's comp that vs what happens this offseason. When the contracts, if they even come, are drastically less, that may be your clue, that these guys aren't in their primes anymore. That will be the telling moment, I don't expect you to admit you were wrong, but just realize it when it happens..

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
These takes are silly, cuz realize the market value that JG and Russ have had. Realize the trade value on the Russ deal. Then let's comp that vs what happens this offseason. When the contracts, if they even come, are drastically less, that may be your clue, that these guys aren't in their primes anymore. That will be the telling moment, I don't expect you to admit you were wrong, but just realize it when it happens..

Rob Johnson had great marker value at one time too. People get things wrong. Spending all thst money on Russ was always stupid of Denver.

Never said thye were in their primes. But they didn't fall off the cliff like you want to believe. It's their flaws are no longer hidden. Neither Russ nor Jimmy were ever great at reading defenses or going through progressions. So take away elite casts and coaching and you see a struggle. Even great offensive minds can sometimes not overcome that.

Daniel Jones had a market value for 40 mil. Who cares thst he can't play the position at a high level though. I'm sure next year his struggles will all be because of his injuries.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
These takes are silly, cuz realize the market value that JG and Russ have had. Realize the trade value on the Russ deal. Then let's comp that vs what happens this offseason. When the contracts, if they even come, are drastically less, that may be your clue, that these guys aren't in their primes anymore. That will be the telling moment, I don't expect you to admit you were wrong, but just realize it when it happens..

Rob Johnson had great marker value at one time too. People get things wrong. Spending all thst money on Russ was always stupid of Denver.

Never said thye were in their primes. But they didn't fall off the cliff like you want to believe. It's their flaws are no longer hidden. Neither Russ nor Jimmy were ever great at reading defenses or going through progressions. So take away elite casts and coaching and you see a struggle. Even great offensive minds can sometimes not overcome that.

Rob Johnson? No. Don't think so. Again the market speaks, JG got 137m, then with a lot more experience, and contracts nearly doubling with inflation, he got $71m. So he got near chopped in half, despite wages around the league going up. That's telling, if you are listening. That's telling to those, 2022 was his best year takes. Russ and JG are gonna find a tough market imo, compared to their prior deals. That means they are getting worse, not better. If you are correct, and he's the largely same as he was at 25, then the market will act accordingly. We shall see.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Rob Johnson? No. Don't think so. Again the market speaks, JG got 137m, then with a lot more experience, and contracts nearly doubling with inflation, he got $71m. So he got near chopped in half, despite wages around the league going up. That's telling, if you are listening. That's telling to those, 2022 was his best year takes. Russ and JG are gonna find a tough market imo, compared to their prior deals. That means they are getting worse, not better. If you are correct, and he's the largely same as he was at 25, then the market will act accordingly. We shall see.

Their marker values have plummeted because their flaws are no longer hidden.

Jimmy market value got chopped in half because he never played to an elite level and no one trusted him to stay healthy or do well.outside of Kyle. Both concerns proved true.

Only place Russ will have any modicum of success is a stacked team that can win games 20-17 off his pull plays out od his ass skill set. No one wants to pay big money for that. Denver never should have. Might be the worst contract ever.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Rob Johnson? No. Don't think so. Again the market speaks, JG got 137m, then with a lot more experience, and contracts nearly doubling with inflation, he got $71m. So he got near chopped in half, despite wages around the league going up. That's telling, if you are listening. That's telling to those, 2022 was his best year takes. Russ and JG are gonna find a tough market imo, compared to their prior deals. That means they are getting worse, not better. If you are correct, and he's the largely same as he was at 25, then the market will act accordingly. We shall see.

Their marker values have plummeted because their flaws are no longer hidden.

Jimmy market value got chopped in half because he never played to an elite level and no one trusted him to stay healthy or do well.outside of Kyle. Both concerns proved true.

Only place Russ will have any modicum of success is a stacked team that can win games 20-17 off his pull plays out od his ass skill set. No one wants to pay big money for that. Denver never should have. Might be the worst contract ever.

Who cares about flaws no longer hidden, per you, that's cuz of the scheme / talent around. So in your mind, any team with some talent around and a scheme fit, can ride with Russ and he'll be back in the MVP convo. Yeah, I disagree. I think his best days are done.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Who cares about flaws no longer hidden, per you, that's cuz of the scheme / talent around. So in your mind, any team with some talent around and a scheme fit, can ride with Russ and he'll be back in the MVP convo. Yeah, I disagree. I think his best days are done.

If you are stacked and can afford to let him just pull his backyard football? Yeah you'd have a shot. But an all time great D and Marshawn Lynch are pretty damn hard to find.

He's 35 so clearly his best days are likely done. As are Jimmy's. Juice isn't worth the squeeze unless you are stacked and can hide them.

Jalen was in the MVP convo off the tush push, an elite pass rush and a great running game. The latter two things went away and he's being questioned. Not hard to see why.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Who cares about flaws no longer hidden, per you, that's cuz of the scheme / talent around. So in your mind, any team with some talent around and a scheme fit, can ride with Russ and he'll be back in the MVP convo. Yeah, I disagree. I think his best days are done.

If you are stacked and can afford to let him just pull his backyard football? Yeah you'd have a shot. But an all time great D and Marshawn Lynch are pretty damn hard to find.

He's 35 so clearly his best days are likely done. As are Jimmy's. Juice isn't worth the squeeze unless you are stacked and can hide them.

Jalen was in the MVP convo off the tush push, an elite pass rush and a great running game. The latter two things went away and he's being questioned. Not hard to see why.

So we agree
I think all the back and forth, is semantics,

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
So we agree
I think all the back and forth, is semantics,

Not really. These dudes aren't falling off cliffs. It's their flaws aren't able to be hidden. Everyone loses a lil as they age.

You were Daniel Jones contract biggest fan. Are GMs gonna be wary just because of his injuries "washing" him or perhaps maybe they just don't think he's that great and Daboll hid is flaws. I'm know where I lean.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
So we agree
I think all the back and forth, is semantics,

Not really. These dudes aren't falling off cliffs. It's their flaws aren't able to be hidden. Everyone loses a lil as they age.

You were Daniel Jones contract biggest fan. Are GMs gonna be wary just because of his injuries "washing" him or perhaps maybe they just don't think he's that great and Daboll hid is flaws. I'm know where I lean.

the bold is my entire point. Now on JG, add in not just the age, every time you undergo the knife. So he's an old 32, thanks to a lot more surg than is typical. I agree they aren't falling off cliffs, more a gradual decline, tho injuries can accelerate things

I wasn't a fan of the contract of D Jones, my stance was, I 'get' the contract. If you don't do that deal, you hand your season over to someone like Tommy Cutlets, and you have no clue how that's gonna go (newsflash; poorly)
but NYG, the prob is OL. No QB could thrive in that mess. But these deals, they aren't fully gtd, they can get out of the D Jones deal, almost as easy as they got into it.

So when you invest top 10 in the draft, and he has a playoff year, sure, saddle up again, and hope for the best, now give him an OL also, they forgot to do that. Let's realize Jones carried a $15m cap hit, that's not anything dramatic for a QB1, it's pretty reasonable.