Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
We'll see, as they say
my suspicion, and I stand by it, is he wants to play. That's said in the article also. So I question if he would willingly sign on for a QB2 hold the clipboard role. No team is making him QB1, on account of he can't get thru a campaign, had a hard time getting thru September, and indeed didn't.

Uh, he didn't not make it through this season because of injury. He was benched for performance. He was turning the ball over at higher rates than any QB since 2016 and his teammates were frustrated. You have unsuccessfully made the argument that the performance was due to injury. You refused to address sampled plays that clearly showed mental mistakes and have offered no evidence to support your position outside of generic comparisons to players like Dalvin Cook.

As a part of this argument you previously suggested he may retire. Now you're suggesting he wants to play. Of course he wants to play. He's not washed up, lol. I would agree teams are unlikely to look to him to be a QB1 for the same reasons we wanted to move on. He's injury prone and he's not good enough. He's a bridge QB at absolute best.

Benched for performance, and also to get a look at the young guy, once they canned the prior coach. The whole team did an intervention with McD, on his whole approach to coaching. Once he was out, JG as a 'McD guy' was suspect.

In my post I mention hard time getting thru September and indeed didn't. That was due to injury. O'Connell got game 4, and JG was back for game 5.

I don't think I am unsuccessful at all, it's a matter of opinion. Let me know your opinion on Tyree Wilson. I would be surprised if you think that his foot didn't impact his campaign, but you do you.

Saying he very well may retire and he wants to play, are not mutually exclusive. For instance, Flacco was on record saying he wanted to play, and he was not on roster week 1. Took some circumstances to get him on a roster and playing. So it's a matter of if JG decides to sign, and as a backup. If he refuses to sign as a QB2, then he may not have any real options to play. Takes two to tango.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Benched for performance, and also to get a look at the young guy, once they canned the prior coach. The whole team did an intervention with McD, on his whole approach to coaching. Once he was out, JG as a 'McD guy' was suspect.

In my post I mention hard time getting thru September and indeed didn't. That was due to injury. O'Connell got game 4, and JG was back for game 5.

I don't think I am unsuccessful at all, it's a matter of opinion. Let me know your opinion on Tyree Wilson. I would be surprised if you think that his foot didn't impact his campaign, but you do you.

Saying he very well may retire and he wants to play, are not mutually exclusive. For instance, Flacco was on record saying he wanted to play, and he was not on roster week 1. Took some circumstances to get him on a roster and playing. So it's a matter of if JG decides to sign, and as a backup. If he refuses to sign as a QB2, then he may not have any real options to play. Takes two to tango.

This is what I was referring to. Another generic comparison to a completely different player with a completely different job.

Show plays where Jimmy's injuries were causing poor outcomes. Talk about Jimmy, not other players. I posted multiple different backbreaking poor plays from him, that were clearly mental mistakes. Had absolutely nothing to do with a hurt foot. You didn't address them, nor did you ever support your position beyond what are effectively nonsensical comparisons.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Benched for performance, and also to get a look at the young guy, once they canned the prior coach. The whole team did an intervention with McD, on his whole approach to coaching. Once he was out, JG as a 'McD guy' was suspect.

In my post I mention hard time getting thru September and indeed didn't. That was due to injury. O'Connell got game 4, and JG was back for game 5.

I don't think I am unsuccessful at all, it's a matter of opinion. Let me know your opinion on Tyree Wilson. I would be surprised if you think that his foot didn't impact his campaign, but you do you.

Saying he very well may retire and he wants to play, are not mutually exclusive. For instance, Flacco was on record saying he wanted to play, and he was not on roster week 1. Took some circumstances to get him on a roster and playing. So it's a matter of if JG decides to sign, and as a backup. If he refuses to sign as a QB2, then he may not have any real options to play. Takes two to tango.

This is what I was referring to. Another generic comparison to a completely different player with a completely different job.

Show plays where Jimmy's injuries were causing poor outcomes. Talk about Jimmy, not other players. I posted multiple different backbreaking poor plays from him, that were clearly mental mistakes. Had absolutely nothing to do with a hurt foot. You didn't address them, nor did you ever support your position beyond what are effectively nonsensical comparisons.

4f6 is relentless with the spin moves

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I walked back the damaged goods, if you saw that post I submitted, how about he's taken a lot of surg and injuries, that we may agree on, as it is factual.

Wanna place bets or view into next offseason or wager on his QB1 odds in 2024? I view him as a QB2, and I suspect he won't want to be QB2, I suspect he will hang it up.

This was the response when presented with evidence. You just didn't want to present evidence yourself other than to point to other washed up players.

Basically as soon as those posts were buried you were right back to it. No new evidence… just a comment from the player himself who would obviously be in damage control mode.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Benched for performance, and also to get a look at the young guy, once they canned the prior coach. The whole team did an intervention with McD, on his whole approach to coaching. Once he was out, JG as a 'McD guy' was suspect.

In my post I mention hard time getting thru September and indeed didn't. That was due to injury. O'Connell got game 4, and JG was back for game 5.

I don't think I am unsuccessful at all, it's a matter of opinion. Let me know your opinion on Tyree Wilson. I would be surprised if you think that his foot didn't impact his campaign, but you do you.

Saying he very well may retire and he wants to play, are not mutually exclusive. For instance, Flacco was on record saying he wanted to play, and he was not on roster week 1. Took some circumstances to get him on a roster and playing. So it's a matter of if JG decides to sign, and as a backup. If he refuses to sign as a QB2, then he may not have any real options to play. Takes two to tango.

This is what I was referring to. Another generic comparison to a completely different player with a completely different job.

Show plays where Jimmy's injuries were causing poor outcomes. Talk about Jimmy, not other players. I posted multiple different backbreaking poor plays from him, that were clearly mental mistakes. Had absolutely nothing to do with a hurt foot. You didn't address them, nor did you ever support your position beyond what are effectively nonsensical comparisons.

They both had their foots in the boot around the facility. I think it helps to talk other players. As it seems an easy concept to grasp, that having a surg, or missing bulk of camp, OTA, preseason, it can get you off to a slow start. Easier to grasp when it's Wilson or Cook, as no one on here has a huge already formed opinion on them, one way or another, at least, not as much as ppl have made up their minds about Jimmy.

It's a bit of a hard ask to say ok on this play, he has a 6% decrease in his throw power, due to x, y, z. That was SWH and a bit of a silly ask if you ask me. He's mentioning his foot in the interview and talks about the early season limitations. So he's referring to what I have been talking about. It's more about just watch him play and get your read on how well he's operating.

Another consideration, that ppl don't mention, is look when you are QB and on a new roster, you need all that time to get on the same page with your guys. His foot was in a boot. That factors, 100%. Can't have your preseason effectively in Sept, when everyone else had theirs in June on. So it's injury and also missed time.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
He just put up a terrible season where he could not stop making the same mental mistakes over and over again, away from the system and playmakers that protected him in SF. That's a far cry from coming off what was widely perceived as his best stretch of play with the 49ers, prior to the foot. There was a question of what kind of player Jimmy was, especially in the media/public. It's been answered. Of course he's got next to no chance to be a starter on a different team. You basically would need a possible playoff team that doesn't have a high draft pick, or a 'win now' QB on their roster. Those are few and far between. Pittsburgh possibly? Might have a new coach who would be unlikely to tie his first couple seasons to a player like Jimmy. There's like less than five hypothetical teams that would fit. Even less than last year when his stock was much higher.

*I should add, I would be willing to bet he doesn't retire depending on terms*

^^

(page 9896 if you'd like to revisit)

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
If you follow LV or NFL, they both had their foots in the boot around the facility. I think it helps to talk other players. As it seems an easy concept to grasp, that having a surg, or missing bulk of camp, OTA, preseason, it can get you off to a slow start. Easier to grasp when it's Wilson or Cook, as no one on here has a huge already formed opinion on them, one way or another, at least, not as much as ppl have made up their minds about Jimmy.

It's a bit of a hard ask to say ok on this play, he has a 6% decrease in his throw power, due to x, y, z. That was SWH and a bit of a silly ask if you ask me. He's mentioning his foot in the interview and talks about the early season limitations. So he's referring to what I have been talking about. It's more about just watch him play and get your read on how well he's operating.

Another consideration, that ppl don't mention, is look when you are QB and on a new roster, you need all that time to get on the same page with your guys. His foot was in a boot. That factors, 100%. Can't have your preseason effectively in Sept, when everyone else had theirs in June on. So it's injury and also missed time.

Again, I can buy these thoughts generically or in general.

But again the problem is I watched him actually play. Throwing a ball into triple coverage for an easy interception is not the product of underdeveloped chemistry with new teammates. It's the same kind of mistake he's always made.

is this a mental mistake, chemistry with his teammates issue, or physical issue?

We could go throw the actual plays and discuss… or we can ignore the plays and pretend it's the same as Dalvin Cook.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I walked back the damaged goods, if you saw that post I submitted, how about he's taken a lot of surg and injuries, that we may agree on, as it is factual.

Wanna place bets or view into next offseason or wager on his QB1 odds in 2024? I view him as a QB2, and I suspect he won't want to be QB2, I suspect he will hang it up.

This was the response when presented with evidence. You just didn't want to present evidence yourself other than to point to other washed up players.

Basically as soon as those posts were buried you were right back to it. No new evidence… just a comment from the player himself who would obviously be in damage control mode.

What you gotta understand, is a part of this is coming to agreement, or finding those points where we may agree. So walking back damaged goods, now I feel he was damaged goods, that's why they had to double back and put more injury protections in the contract. However, I think you were hung up on that phrasing, so I said fine, disregard that, we can keep it on reality, which is the injury and the surg, which are real.

It's up to opinion, what exactly damaged goods means. I think most NFL observers, who are neutral parties and not on the JG experience for years as we were, would say yeah he's cooked. But again, I know you don't agree. I think we agree he was a mid tier NFL QB1, and he's toward the end, if not at the end. I would lean more to at the end. Time will tell.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
What you gotta understand, is a part of this is coming to agreement, or finding those points where we may agree. So walking back damaged goods, now I feel he was damaged goods, that's why they had to double back and put more injury protections in the contract. However, I think you were hung up on that phrasing, so I said fine, disregard that, we can keep it on reality, which is the injury and the surg, which are real.

It's up to opinion, what exactly damaged goods means. I think most NFL observers, who are neutral parties and not on the JG experience for years as we were, would say yeah he's cooked. But again, I know you don't agree. I think we agree he was a mid tier NFL QB1, and he's toward the end, if not at the end. I would lean more to at the end. Time will tell.

Damaged goods means exactly what you've presented in this thread for months now, lol.

We do agree about a lot with Jimmy… especially in the context of his time here. I also agree that he's been injured a lot and is generally injury prone. Where we disagree, and where I'm willing support an actual argument when you aren't willing to, is that he is physically incapable of being the player that he was with the 49ers for the bulk of his time here because of those past injuries. What's different about Jimmy from his time here to this season is everything else around him and how that changes both his responsibilities and impact on the field.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:


is this a mental mistake, chemistry with his teammates issue, or physical issue?

We could go throw the actual plays and discuss… or we can ignore the plays and pretend it's the same as Dalvin Cook.

Look at his feet, that's what he was doing all season, he was vibrating like a dildo out there. I'm not sure that's old school Jimmy. He wasn't doing happy feet all play in 2017. You have to get with him on the cause, I don't know. Do some 2017 with his feet like that, if you can find it.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Look at his feet, that's what he was doing all season, he was vibrating like a dildo out there. I'm not sure that's old school Jimmy. He wasn't doing happy feet all play in 2017. You have to get with him on the cause, I don't know. Do some 2017 with his feet like that, if you can find it.

That's not how this works. It's on you to show plays that you think support your argument. You have yet to attempt it.

Even this play and your explanation really misses the mark. Two obvious reasons:

- He played many years after his time in 2017. He played well here after 2017. Up to and through 2022.
- His feet have very little to do with the poor decision to make that pass into that coverage.

That's beyond the obvious point that he had happy feet plays even back to his very limited time in NE, lol.

Here's another. No happy feet. No real pressure. Even could make the argument that he and his receiver weren't on the same page potentially. Just Jimmy throwing a ball up for grabs to a spot on the field with two defenders sitting there. Something he has always done.

*Not a coach alive looking at plays like this and thinking 'wow, this guy is too hurt to do his job effectively'*

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:


is this a mental mistake, chemistry with his teammates issue, or physical issue?

We could go throw the actual plays and discuss… or we can ignore the plays and pretend it's the same as Dalvin Cook.

Look at his feet, that's what he was doing all season, he was vibrating like a dildo out there. I'm not sure that's old school Jimmy. He wasn't doing happy feet all play in 2017. You have to get with him on the cause, I don't know. Do some 2017 with his feet like that, if you can find it.

Probably because he missed the whole off-season. His footwork isn't very sound from the start.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Look at his feet, that's what he was doing all season, he was vibrating like a dildo out there. I'm not sure that's old school Jimmy. He wasn't doing happy feet all play in 2017. You have to get with him on the cause, I don't know. Do some 2017 with his feet like that, if you can find it.

That's not how this works. It's on you to show plays that you think support your argument. You have yet to attempt it.

Even this play and your explanation really misses the mark. Two obvious reasons:

- He played many years after his time in 2017. He played well here after 2017. Up to and through 2022.
- His feet have very little to do with the poor decision to make that pass into that coverage.

That's beyond the obvious point that he had happy feet plays even back to his very limited time in NE, lol.

He's not doing happy feet here like he is in Vegas:



also btw, I am struck by the top comment, which is :What made him special was his ability to escape out of the pocket and create plays. After that ACL injury, he hasnt been able to do that

so that's a real take, and yeah, his injury took it down a notch, and all the injuries did in their own way. That's why saying 22 was his best year is a more or less clown take, imo. One only gets to that take from stats with CMC and some beastly players. Not from watching the guy.