Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I get it too. I dont have too many people blocked. But if I had a dollar for everytime I told him "dude thats not what I said" I could probably buy an authentic 49ers jersey. Just got tiresome.
I mean, I dont know how many times I asked him for what things he sees in Jimmy that demonstrate that he is washed up, an failed to get one single answer. Yet, just a page ago you were still arguing with him about Jimmy being washed up. Yeah I am cool off of continuing to debate with him.
Lol, no doubt. Only reason I'm back in it is just because of those new Jimmy quotes.
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Back to Jimmy himself.....
Back in March, I had an exchange with a few posters regarding compensatory draft picks we would be getting from Jimmy signing with the Raiders, and I was told we needed to wait until the end of the season to see what we earned back. Well its the end of the season. I assume we will be getting a crap pick because Jimmy was benched and probably didnt hit any milestones needed for a good return.
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Back to Jimmy himself.....
Back in March, I had an exchange with a few posters regarding compensatory draft picks we would be getting from Jimmy signing with the Raiders, and I was told we needed to wait until the end of the season to see what we earned back. Well its the end of the season. I assume we will be getting a crap pick because Jimmy was benched and probably didnt hit any milestones needed for a good return.
Anyone have any insight on this?
Pretty sure it's based on the contract only
I thought this as well, but the exchange I had was after he signed. And the people responding to me specifically said we need to wait until after the season.
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I thought this as well, but the exchange I had was after he signed. And the people responding to me specifically said we need to wait until after the season.
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I thought this as well, but the exchange I had was after he signed. And the people responding to me specifically said we need to wait until after the season.
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
He's not doing happy feet here like he is in Vegas:
also btw, I am struck by the top comment, which is :What made him special was his ability to escape out of the pocket and create plays. After that ACL injury, he hasnt been able to do that
so that's a real take, and yeah, his injury took it down a notch, and all the injuries did in their own way. That's why saying 22 was his best year is a more or less clown take, imo. One only gets to that take from stats with CMC and some beastly players. Not from watching the guy.
Yea I'm going to move on from this argument if you are going to continue to be disingenuous.
First of all, almost everyone acknowledges he may have lost some mobility with his ACL tear. That's not even a point of contention here.
The point of contention is whether he is now washed up and that explains the 'drop off' in play from 2018-22 with the Niners and his time in 23 with LV. He's not a suddenly worse player now than he was in 18-22 because injury has caught up.
——-
On a side note you should probably chill on the idea that it's a clown take to not make definitive conclusions about five games in 2017 against a half decade of consistent play in the time between then and now. Promise you the film doesn't show some significant difference in play over that time including 2017… regardless of what some comment on YT says. He was fully capable of avoiding pressure and rolling out of the pocket post ACL injury. He was never highly mobile in the first place.
The frustrating part about how faithful argues is that there's no reason for him to make these disingenuous takes to begin with. I don't think faithful is more wrong than the next person. Heck, there's several things we've disagreed upon that have turned out I was 100% wrong and he was completely right. But that was never what this was about. In the context of this forum, I care more about how someone argues, than the beliefs or conclusions they may have.
For example, most people saw faithful say that Jimmy was probably better suited as a backup this offseason. Which seemed to contradict the way faithful talked about Jimmy before, but ultimately thats okay. Players change and posters are allowed to change their opinions on those players. But if he had just said, "I don't think the Raiders should sign him to be a starter due to the fact he's at high risk of getting re-injured" that would be completely reasonable to me.
The part that Smokey, myself, and about 10 other posters are stuck on, is that he's saying Jimmy's lack of success in Vegas is mostly related to his injuries or his age, or both. Now, you can phrase that many different ways, but that's essentially what it boils down to. It completely dismisses what the film says, which is, Jimmy's mental and physical limitations outside of his injuries.
Instead of providing evidence for this, it's pushed aside over and over. And at the same time myself and others are called clowns for even debating this, when it's really not debatable that there's more context here.
That's the part that makes it impossible for me. It's easier to talk to someone who thinks Jimmy is a top 5 elite QB, than someone whose reasoning doesn't add up like this. In regards to faithful, no one is suggesting the former, yet I think it says something when 10+ posters suggest the latter.
[ Edited by Waterbear on Jan 17, 2024 at 7:51 PM ]
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I thought this as well, but the exchange I had was after he signed. And the people responding to me specifically said we need to wait until after the season.
Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
He's not doing happy feet here like he is in Vegas:
also btw, I am struck by the top comment, which is :What made him special was his ability to escape out of the pocket and create plays. After that ACL injury, he hasnt been able to do that
so that's a real take, and yeah, his injury took it down a notch, and all the injuries did in their own way. That's why saying 22 was his best year is a more or less clown take, imo. One only gets to that take from stats with CMC and some beastly players. Not from watching the guy.
Yea I'm going to move on from this argument if you are going to continue to be disingenuous.
First of all, almost everyone acknowledges he may have lost some mobility with his ACL tear. That's not even a point of contention here.
The point of contention is whether he is now washed up and that explains the 'drop off' in play from 2018-22 with the Niners and his time in 23 with LV. He's not a suddenly worse player now than he was in 18-22 because injury has caught up.
——-
On a side note you should probably chill on the idea that it's a clown take to not make definitive conclusions about five games in 2017 against a half decade of consistent play in the time between then and now. Promise you the film doesn't show some significant difference in play over that time including 2017… regardless of what some comment on YT says. He was fully capable of avoiding pressure and rolling out of the pocket post ACL injury. He was never highly mobile in the first place.
The frustrating part about how faithful argues is that there's no reason for him to make these disingenuous takes to begin with. I don't think faithful is more wrong than the next person. Heck, there's several things we've disagreed upon that have turned out I was 100% wrong and he was completely right. But that was never what this was about. In the context of this forum, I care more about how someone argues, than the beliefs or conclusions they may have.
For example, most people saw faithful say that Jimmy was probably better suited as a backup this offseason. Which seemed to contradict the way faithful talked about Jimmy before, but ultimately thats okay. Players change and posters are allowed to change their opinions on those players. But if he had just said, "I don't think the Raiders should sign him to be a starter due to the fact he's at high risk of getting re-injured" that would be completely reasonable to me.
The part that Smokey, myself, and about 10 other posters are stuck on, is that he's saying Jimmy's lack of success in Vegas is mostly related to his injuries or his age, or both. Now, you can phrase that many different ways, but that's essentially what it boils down to. It completely dismisses what the film says, which is, Jimmy's mental and physical limitations outside of his injuries.
Instead of providing evidence for this, it's pushed aside over and over. And at the same time myself and others are called clowns for even debating this, when it's really not debatable that there's more context here.
That's the part that makes it impossible for me. It's easier to talk to someone who thinks Jimmy is a top 5 elite QB, than someone whose reasoning doesn't add up like this. In regards to faithful, no one is suggesting the former, yet I think it says something when 10+ posters suggest the latter.
Ya the proof should be how Purdy is operating this offense.
As a rookie, he made more wow plays than Jimmy had basically his whole entire time here (maybe a bit of an exaggeration but it's closer than it should be). He brought everything Jimmy brought to the table and then a lot more. The only thing Jimmy does better than Brock is the QB sneak (at least he's thanked Brady for that)
The way players have talked about him is different than how they talked about Jimmy. BA even said we have a QB that can make all the throws now...
Last year Purdy yelled at Deebo and BA for giving up on a route. No such thing as a ghost route anymore with Purdy, you're open short, middle, deep, he's gonna throw you a catchable ball and you better keep trying to get open because he will scramble and keep his eyes down the field.
He's a perfect fit for Kyle's offense. He's not the most gifted guy out there, but that's also what makes it work so well. He's not going to try and be Josh Allen and think he can just win games on his own. He understands some of his weaknesses and is very coachable.
Most importantly he cares. He's not on the sidelines laughing and joking around when the team is losing and he's having a bad game. My favorite clip of him was during the NFCG last year when Kittle came up to him and joked around asking him if he can throw left handed. He brushed him off quickly and walked away, stoic as f**k.
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I thought this as well, but the exchange I had was after he signed. And the people responding to me specifically said we need to wait until after the season.
So I can answer this. It's MOSTLY based on the contract. But there are also playing time aspects to it. Luckily Jimmy signed a big enough deal that his lack of playing time did not move him out the 3rd round comp area. Both he and McGlinchey got 3rd round comp value but because of Hargrave McGlinchey got washed out.
Because Jimmy played so little however we will likely have the lowest 3rd round comp of the player picks.
If you go to overthecap.com compensatory pick page they have a good explanation on things.
For example because Charles Omenihu was suspended the first 6 weeks he ended up only playing like 35% of the Chiefs snaps for the season. Because of thst per their projections he just barely cleared the bar for a 5th round compensatory pick.
Didnt dig deep but it looks like a compensatory pick for Jimmy was cancelled out by us signing Hargrave.
Overthecap has McGlinchey canceling out because Jimmy fell down the list based on not playing the snaps. It's 6 on one half dozen on other though in end.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Overthecap has McGlinchey canceling out because Jimmy fell down the list based on not playing the snaps. It's 6 on one half dozen on other though in end.
That's probably right then. I'm not sure either way… way too much salary cap/FA minutiae for my interest.
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I thought this as well, but the exchange I had was after he signed. And the people responding to me specifically said we need to wait until after the season.
So I can answer this. It's MOSTLY based on the contract. But there are also playing time aspects to it. Luckily Jimmy signed a big enough deal that his lack of playing time did not move him out the 3rd round comp area. Both he and McGlinchey got 3rd round comp value but because of Hargrave McGlinchey got washed out.
Because Jimmy played so little however we will likely have the lowest 3rd round comp of the player picks.
If you go to overthecap.com compensatory pick page they have a good explanation on things.
For example because Charles Omenihu was suspended the first 6 weeks he ended up only playing like 35% of the Chiefs snaps for the season. Because of thst per their projections he just barely cleared the bar for a 5th round compensatory pick.
weaknesses