Clelin Ferrell DE Raiders

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by toppdogg32:
I'd rather have him over Bosa. This guy plays the run and pass equally well, not just a ER..

Have you watched Bosa?

Yes, when he last played. Im not saying he isn't good, in fact he is a great player- just would rather get the guy that played all his final season, won a national championship, and dominated in the SEC.. that's all

Originally posted by toppdogg32:
Yes, when he last played. Im not saying he isn't good, in fact he is a great player- just would rather get the guy that played all his final season, won a national championship, and dominated in the SEC.. that's all

Clemson isn't in the SEC.

Originally posted by toppdogg32:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by toppdogg32:
I'd rather have him over Bosa. This guy plays the run and pass equally well, not just a ER..

Have you watched Bosa?

Yes, when he last played. Im not saying he isn't good, in fact he is a great player- just would rather get the guy that played all his final season, won a national championship, and dominated in the SEC.. that's all

Why would that be anywhere near your decision making? It's a team result. How many national championships did Myles Garrett win? How many did Von Miller? Aaron Donald? etc...

Bosa dominated when he played and showed moves that Ferrell hasn't displayed and may never be able to master. Bosa was mauling people before his injury. I like the competitiveness from Ferrell but if he was the unquestioned #1 edge in this draft class he may not have been playing out there. Considering what we've seen with injuries to top 10 picks I have no issue with guys deciding they've shown enough and not risk their future to help a school which would never take care of them financially if they were to suffer a career ending injury.

And if you want domination of the SEC then why not Josh Allen over Bosa and Ferrell? Pretty sure he led the SEC in sacks and finished his bowl game in much bigger fashion than Ferrell.

He's talented but I'd be very shocked if he goes top 10, I like Polite better then him so he's not top 3 Pass rusher in this draft IMO

Originally posted by Heroism:

Ferrell wins and wins a lot. If someone can work with him to play lower and lean into tackles as he turns the arc, this dude could be a MONSTER because he's already got all the other necessary ingredients. He left a slew of sacks on the field last night against a very good tackle in Jonah Williams because he couldn't take a tight track to the QB.

But I didn't realize how nasty this dude is. He talks a lot of s**t. I like it He said he models his game after Aldon, compared whooping Alabama to whiping his ass and referenced Suge Knight after the game. Not sure whether to be concerned or in love. T-Sizzle comp coming together.

Woo, trending upwards in my book. I need a DOG in the trenches!!

Doing a piece on Clelin Ferrell for tomorrow over at @DraftNetworkLLC. Found this gem of Ferrell s**t talking his own teammate (Mitch Hyatt) in practice. pic.twitter.com/R0jzFDHjho

— Trevor Sikkema (@TampaBayTre) January 8, 2019

I don't get it Hero, you praise this guy and knock Josh Allen. You're the pass rush specialist in here, enlighten me on what you see in him and not Allen. All I see with Ferrell in all of the games I've watched of him is running straight into the Tackle and trying to overpower him, zero technique and the same lack of counter moves that Allen gets criticized for. What's the big difference in winning with speed (Allen) vs power (Ferrell) in that they both are "out-athleting" the opponent, another thing that Allen gets criticized for albeit he's had more success than Ferrell in doing so.

If you watch Ferrell and see zero technique, there's nothing I can do for you. Dude had the sweetest rush by anyone in the draft class against Duke. This is highly advanced technique right here:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Yo, this is one of the nastiest rushes by anyone in the class. Beautiful stab+forklift. Ferrell uses a subtle slingshot technique with his left hand to replace the tackle's hip.

Originally posted by jersey49er:

He's talented but I'd be very shocked if he goes top 10, I like Polite better then him so he's not top 3 Pass rusher in this draft IMO

I agree, I'd take Allen, Burns and Polite before this guy. Like his competitive fire though and wouldn't be devastated if we took him but only in a trade down scenario and the 3 above was gone

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Ferrell wins and wins a lot. If someone can work with him to play lower and lean into tackles as he turns the arc, this dude could be a MONSTER because he's already got all the other necessary ingredients. He left a slew of sacks on the field last night against a very good tackle in Jonah Williams because he couldn't take a tight track to the QB.

But I didn't realize how nasty this dude is. He talks a lot of s**t. I like it He said he models his game after Aldon, compared whooping Alabama to whiping his ass and referenced Suge Knight after the game. Not sure whether to be concerned or in love. T-Sizzle comp coming together.

Woo, trending upwards in my book. I need a DOG in the trenches!!

Doing a piece on Clelin Ferrell for tomorrow over at @DraftNetworkLLC. Found this gem of Ferrell s**t talking his own teammate (Mitch Hyatt) in practice. pic.twitter.com/R0jzFDHjho

— Trevor Sikkema (@TampaBayTre) January 8, 2019

I don't get it Hero, you praise this guy and knock Josh Allen. You're the pass rush specialist in here, enlighten me on what you see in him and not Allen. All I see with Ferrell in all of the games I've watched of him is running straight into the Tackle and trying to overpower him, zero technique and the same lack of counter moves that Allen gets criticized for. What's the big difference in winning with speed (Allen) vs power (Ferrell) in that they both are "out-athleting" the opponent, another thing that Allen gets criticized for albeit he's had more success than Ferrell in doing so.

IMO Ferrell has a terrific speed to power move so he's definitely not a straight up power pass rusher. His get off is also pretty terrific but also gets him in trouble sometimes - think Ahmad Brooks.

Not going to speak for Hero but I would think the concern with athletes doing something in college then coming into the NFL where everyone is super athletic AND strong. Ferrell has a good combo of speed with his power. He just doesn't have the bend and flexibility to truly be special.

When it comes down to it I can see all of these guys being stud rushers - Bosa, Ferrell, Allen, Burns, Polite and others in this class. To me, it's trying to draft the guy you think is as close to the sure thing as you can get. That's Bosa. After him there are questions with each prospect so it's a matter of what you're looking for, what you think can be taught, what you think that player can improve on and how quickly, etc...

Originally posted by Heroism:

If you watch Ferrell and see zero technique, there's nothing I can do for you. Dude had the sweetest rush by anyone in the draft class against Duke.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Yo, this is one of the nastiest rushes by anyone in the class. Beautiful stab+forklift. Ferrell uses a subtle slingshot technique with his left hand to replace the tackle's hip.

But I thought you preach consistency? I have seen quite a few cut ups of Josh Allen that was impressive as hell too. With Ferrell, the majority of his wins that I've seen look the same and was predicated on him jumping the snap, not technique or counter moves at all. It's also why he has quite a bit of penalties cause he relies heavily on that.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Ferrell wins and wins a lot. If someone can work with him to play lower and lean into tackles as he turns the arc, this dude could be a MONSTER because he's already got all the other necessary ingredients. He left a slew of sacks on the field last night against a very good tackle in Jonah Williams because he couldn't take a tight track to the QB.

But I didn't realize how nasty this dude is. He talks a lot of s**t. I like it He said he models his game after Aldon, compared whooping Alabama to whiping his ass and referenced Suge Knight after the game. Not sure whether to be concerned or in love. T-Sizzle comp coming together.

Woo, trending upwards in my book. I need a DOG in the trenches!!

Doing a piece on Clelin Ferrell for tomorrow over at @DraftNetworkLLC. Found this gem of Ferrell s**t talking his own teammate (Mitch Hyatt) in practice. pic.twitter.com/R0jzFDHjho

— Trevor Sikkema (@TampaBayTre) January 8, 2019

I don't get it Hero, you praise this guy and knock Josh Allen. You're the pass rush specialist in here, enlighten me on what you see in him and not Allen. All I see with Ferrell in all of the games I've watched of him is running straight into the Tackle and trying to overpower him, zero technique and the same lack of counter moves that Allen gets criticized for. What's the big difference in winning with speed (Allen) vs power (Ferrell) in that they both are "out-athleting" the opponent, another thing that Allen gets criticized for albeit he's had more success than Ferrell in doing so.

IMO Ferrell has a terrific speed to power move so he's definitely not a straight up power pass rusher. His get off is also pretty terrific but also gets him in trouble sometimes - think Ahmad Brooks.

Not going to speak for Hero but I would think the concern with athletes doing something in college then coming into the NFL where everyone is super athletic AND strong. Ferrell has a good combo of speed with his power. He just doesn't have the bend and flexibility to truly be special.

When it comes down to it I can see all of these guys being stud rushers - Bosa, Ferrell, Allen, Burns, Polite and others in this class. To me, it's trying to draft the guy you think is as close to the sure thing as you can get. That's Bosa. After him there are questions with each prospect so it's a matter of what you're looking for, what you think can be taught, what you think that player can improve on and how quickly, etc...

I was just asking Hero cause I respect his thoughts when it comes to pass rush and I don't understand how Allen can be questioned on some things but this guy praised. I guess I just don't see it. In my eyes, Allen is pretty well above Ferrell as a prospect and I think his bread n butter "speed and bend" translates much more in the NFL than Ferrell's game.

I've been highly critical of Ferrell's athleticism and ability to bend/take a short track the last few pages. Nobody is immune to criticism.

Yes, he is a snap jumper, but that's a double-edged sword. It's good and bad. I like it and hate it at the same times because it can lead to a big play or a big flag. I do appreciate that he understands his athletic shortcomings and attempts to mask them.

In regards to Ferrell's technique, everything you're looking for is in his tape. He's significantly more advanced as a pass rusher than Josh Allen. He rushes with a plan, understands how to use his length to draw hands, establish contact and control. He uses his hands and demonstrates counters. It's all on tape. I'm a little busy to cut up the tape right now, but here are some:

Longarm

"Speed" with stab-chop-rip. Look how he struggles to take a short track lol. He looks like he's about to tip over.

Counter spin.


This is a highly, highly advanced demonstration of technique right here:

Originally posted by 49ers808:
I was just asking Hero cause I respect his thoughts when it comes to pass rush and I don't understand how Allen can be questioned on some things but this guy praised. I guess I just don't see it. In my eyes, Allen is pretty well above Ferrell as a prospect and I think his bread n butter "speed and bend" translates much more in the NFL than Ferrell's game.

I think a lot of Allen's production is purely on speed and a chunk of them he's unblocked or simply beating the OT where there isn't much to learn from. You can certainly make a case that if a DLman can do that then who cares about counters and hands but if we're being realistic in the NFL it's pretty hard to blow by OTs without them getting hands on you.

So the question is does he learn those counters? Is he able to disengage consistently from NFL caliber tackles? It's why the senior bowl is key for him. He's still raw and I know Kentucky wasn't exactly lining him up as a DE every snap for him to master those moves. For all we know once an NFL team gets their hands on him and asks him to play DE he'll turn it up a notch from this season and be another Khalil Mack but it's projecting a lot.

I've gotten burned on projections without stuff being on tape so I'm hesitant with Allen. But that's my issue lol.

Originally posted by Heroism:

If you watch Ferrell and see zero technique, there's nothing I can do for you. Dude had the sweetest rush by anyone in the draft class against Duke. This is highly advanced technique right here:

Ferrell+Allen=GOAT pass rushing prospect.



Individually, they've each got some considerable question marks.

Appreciate it man. I guess I just like Allen more than most. I mean the dude rushed the passer half the amount as these other guys because he also was out in coverage and yet produced more sacks in the SEC. His ceiling is MUCH higher imo if he's allowed to just rush the passer and improve that skillset alone. Ah like I said, I wouldn't be mad with Ferrell but I stand by my thoughts of Allen being the better player

Originally posted by 49ers808:
Appreciate it man. I guess I just like Allen more than most. I mean the dude rushed the passer half the amount as these other guys because he also was out in coverage and yet produced more sacks in the SEC. His ceiling is MUCH higher imo if he's allowed to just rush the passer and improve that skillset alone. Ah like I said, I wouldn't be mad with Ferrell but I stand by my thoughts of Allen being the better player

All good. Remember, I just want the best guy for the 49ers. I have zero loyalty to any school, player or team other than the 49ers. I hope I'm wrong and all these guys bust except the one the 49ers draft.