Clelin Ferrell DE Raiders

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

I was just asking Hero cause I respect his thoughts when it comes to pass rush and I don't understand how Allen can be questioned on some things but this guy praised. I guess I just don't see it. In my eyes, Allen is pretty well above Ferrell as a prospect and I think his bread n butter "speed and bend" translates much more in the NFL than Ferrell's game.

I think a lot of Allen's production is purely on speed and a chunk of them he's unblocked or simply beating the OT where there isn't much to learn from. You can certainly make a case that if a DLman can do that then who cares about counters and hands but if we're being realistic in the NFL it's pretty hard to blow by OTs without them getting hands on you.

So the question is does he learn those counters? Is he able to disengage consistently from NFL caliber tackles? It's why the senior bowl is key for him. He's still raw and I know Kentucky wasn't exactly lining him up as a DE every snap for him to master those moves. For all we know once an NFL team gets their hands on him and asks him to play DE he'll turn it up a notch from this season and be another Khalil Mack but it's projecting a lot.

I've gotten burned on projections without stuff being on tape so I'm hesitant with Allen. But that's my issue lol.

Appreciate it braddah. For me, I guess a guy his size (Allen) that can line up on the edge and drop into coverage on any given play is just as good as a counter move, and It's a counter move that none of the other edge players offer. Nobody can tell me that its not a good skillset to have and wouldn't drive defensive coordinators crazy and nobody can tell me that it doesn't work in the NFL because Von Miller made his name with this ability. We all have our preferences. Coverage might be mine cause I played DB from pop warner through high school lol

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Appreciate it man. I guess I just like Allen more than most. I mean the dude rushed the passer half the amount as these other guys because he also was out in coverage and yet produced more sacks in the SEC. His ceiling is MUCH higher imo if he's allowed to just rush the passer and improve that skillset alone. Ah like I said, I wouldn't be mad with Ferrell but I stand by my thoughts of Allen being the better player

All good. Remember, I just want the best guy for the 49ers. I have zero loyalty to any school, player or team other than the 49ers. I hope I'm wrong and all these guys bust except the one the 49ers draft.

So do I and I guess that's why I'm trying to understand the nuances of pass rushing more than I do now. Admittedly, the number of sacks and conference does appeal to me more than maybe it should with Allen.

Originally posted by Heroism:
If you watch Ferrell and see zero technique, there's nothing I can do for you. Dude had the sweetest rush by anyone in the draft class against Duke. This is highly advanced technique right here:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Yo, this is one of the nastiest rushes by anyone in the class. Beautiful stab+forklift. Ferrell uses a subtle slingshot technique with his left hand to replace the tackle's hip.

Glad to see you coming around. The nastiness and intensity can't be coached, he has that. He also has elite reaction to the snap and that split second head start is huge. That's EXACTLY what Aldon had that isn't measurable. His handwork is excellent, I agree with you his technique is sound. If a coach can teach him just a LITTLE more bend (which I think is absolutely doable) then he will be All-Pro.

Did you see him bullrush Jonah? Literally had him on roller skates. Isnt Williams the top OT prospect?

He's still not top-10. As a LEO, he just doesn't have the speed or bend to make a difference.

He's a long shot to make it onto our roster. He shouldn't be considered at #2 and he'll likely be gone by the 2nd.

I'd rather see Dakota Watson at LEO than Ferrell.

Originally posted by Heroism:

I've been highly critical of Ferrell's athleticism and ability to bend/take a short track the last few pages. Nobody is immune to criticism.

Yes, he is a snap jumper, but that's a double-edged sword. It's good and bad. I like it and hate it at the same times because it can lead to a big play or a big flag. I do appreciate that he understands his athletic shortcomings and attempts to mask them.

In regards to Ferrell's technique, everything you're looking for is in his tape. He's significantly more advanced as a pass rusher than Josh Allen. He rushes with a plan, understands how to use his length to draw hands, establish contact and control. He uses his hands and demonstrates counters. It's all on tape. I'm a little busy to cut up the tape right now, but here are some:

Longarm

Clelin Ferrell has a serious wingspan. pic.twitter.com/4EGZfVqp6S

— Cole Cubelic (@colecubelic) March 2, 2017

"Speed" with stab-chop-rip. Look how he struggles to take a short track lol. He looks like he's about to tip over.

Clelin Ferrell: good first step, stab/chop/rip, gets the strip sack. #NFLDraft #DraftTwitter #CollegeFootball #nfl #CFB #NFLDraft2019 #Clemson #ALLIN pic.twitter.com/TFpM0l31A5

— d money 313 (@airdeemoney30) September 3, 2018

Counter spin.

#Clemson #NFLDraft prospect Clelin Ferrell is a fun prospect. Devastating spin move here,#2018NFLDraft pic.twitter.com/sAeg4fZLbU

— Justin M (@JustinM_NFL) October 23, 2017

This is a highly, highly advanced demonstration of technique right here:

Regards to the clips...

1st: LT was tripped by the RB

2nd: nice, but nothing special.

3rd: beautiful counter, but he doesnt finish (a trend)

4th: one of his best, most complete plays. The LT played it horribly though and just stopped moving his feet. Won't happen often in the pros.

Originally posted by strickac:

He's still not top-10. As a LEO, he just doesn't have the speed or bend to make a difference.

He's a long shot to make it onto our roster. He shouldn't be considered at #2 and he'll likely be gone by the 2nd.

I'd rather see Dakota Watson at LEO than Ferrell.

I won't be quite that dramatic but the 49ers really need a pass rusher with star upside. I don't see it with Ferrell just as I didn't see it with Barnett who has been decent but most of his sacks have been of the b******t, Cassius Marsh variety where he was just cleaning up someone else's work. Nothing wrong with that but you don't need to use an early first rounder to get a clean up guy.


Ferrell looks like a solid pass rusher at the next level but not a great one, especially when you consider how much talent he was surrounded with on that Clemson DL. He likely isn't going to have that in the NFL.


To me he is a guy you bring in when you already have your star edge rusher and need a secondary guy to keep the pressure on QBs.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

I won't be quite that dramatic but the 49ers really need a pass rusher with star upside. I don't see it with Ferrell just as I didn't see it with Barnett who has been decent but most of his sacks have been of the b******t, Cassius Marsh variety where he was just cleaning up someone else's work. Nothing wrong with that but you don't need to use an early first rounder to get a clean up guy.


Ferrell looks like a solid pass rusher at the next level but not a great one, especially when you consider how much talent he was surrounded with on that Clemson DL. He likely isn't going to have that in the NFL.


To me he is a guy you bring in when you already have your star edge rusher and need a secondary guy to keep the pressure on QBs.

I agree with your last point. He's a complimentary player on the edge. He's not the featured guy. No one is going to gameplan to stop him.

He's a guy you feel good about bringing in because he can play the run and occasionally generate some pressure. He's not a guy you go after early in the draft.

Originally posted by strickac:

He's still not top-10. As a LEO, he just doesn't have the speed or bend to make a difference.

He's a long shot to make it onto our roster. He shouldn't be considered at #2 and he'll likely be gone by the 2nd.

I'd rather see Dakota Watson at LEO than Ferrell.

Well you obviously haven't been paying any attention to what Saleh wants, who do you think plays our LEO spot from this class?

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by strickac:

He's still not top-10. As a LEO, he just doesn't have the speed or bend to make a difference.

He's a long shot to make it onto our roster. He shouldn't be considered at #2 and he'll likely be gone by the 2nd.

I'd rather see Dakota Watson at LEO than Ferrell.

I won't be quite that dramatic but the 49ers really need a pass rusher with star upside. I don't see it with Ferrell just as I didn't see it with Barnett who has been decent but most of his sacks have been of the b******t, Cassius Marsh variety where he was just cleaning up someone else's work. Nothing wrong with that but you don't need to use an early first rounder to get a clean up guy.


Ferrell looks like a solid pass rusher at the next level but not a great one, especially when you consider how much talent he was surrounded with on that Clemson DL. He likely isn't going to have that in the NFL.


To me he is a guy you bring in when you already have your star edge rusher and need a secondary guy to keep the pressure on QBs.

You worded all of that better than me, It's what I was trying to say earlier. I just don't see it with him. Could be because all the recent Clemson edges went on to be crap in the NFL?

Originally posted by strickac:
Regards to the clips...

Clips weren't meant to impress, they were meant to highlight individual techniques.

1st: LT was tripped by the RB

The tackle tripping is inconsequential. The focal point here is timing, hand placement, arm extension, dropping pads and running feet to execute the long arm technique.

4th: one of his best, most complete plays. The LT played it horribly though and just stopped moving his feet. Won't happen often in the pros.

Tackle stopped his feet because of the stab. The stab threatens power, the tackle drops his weight to roll his hips, and as a result, the corner is reduced. Pass rushing isn't arbitrary. Ferrell didn't just throw out a stab out there for the fun of it. That was a calculated setup in a beautiful chain of techniques.

Ferrell isn't even my guy. I've been pretty damn transparent about my tepid interest towards him, but can we all at least be objective?

I see Ferrell as a talented complimentary DLine where all pieces work together without any one of the pieces being the dominant piece. There is no question that Ferrell has many good qualitities as a pass rusher but I don't see him in the same category as Allen Who was by far the best pass rusher on a less talented d-line. What Selah and Shanahan have to decide is what pass rusher would work best with Buckner and company. Would Ferrell be the piece that pulls the team together as a team rushing program or would Bosa or Allen be the lead dog in a group of pass rushers?

Doesn't matter if it's Ferrell or Burns or Allen or Polite or Trey Downe... chances are, they will thrive playing next to Buckner or maybe Buck breaks the all time sack record with a good edge rusher beside him

Originally posted by genus49:

I'm good with using #2 overall for Burns so I don't really care about the traditional "OMG REACH!!" garbage. I'm just petrified of getting this pick wrong. It's why I'm hoping to hell and high water that Bosa is there because he's such a no brainer pick.

All of the other edge guys have their own question marks. I just want to find OUR guy. It worked out for us when we "reached" for Aldon before he picked up the bottle.

I'm super tired of rooting for higher draft picks before the season is even half way done. This offseason has to be a home run across FA and the draft. It's why I value Bosa and Burns over the other guys because to me they have much better pass rush arsenal. I'm tired of projecting guys to do something they haven't done and I'm tired of guys who have to be "coached up" cuz honestly I'm afraid our coaches on defense can't get the job done.

To me I'd rather watch a guy bulk up and work on his game with already a great set of moves like Burns versus hoping Ferrell can improve his flexibilty/bend but as long as we address pass rusher I'll be happy. Even if it's a guy like Ferrell who worries me I've seen enough good in his game to make me hope the stuff i'm worried about is nonsense.

Yeah I have Burns as my #2 but like you said all these edge rushers have their warts...we all want elite talent at 2 and we want it at a position of need. Issue is there might not be that in this draft (day 1 elite)

I'm fine taking any of Allen/Ferrell/Burns if we feel they can become a top end talent.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Ferrell wins and wins a lot. If someone can work with him to play lower and lean into tackles as he turns the arc, this dude could be a MONSTER because he's already got all the other necessary ingredients. He left a slew of sacks on the field last night against a very good tackle in Jonah Williams because he couldn't take a tight track to the QB.

That is what I see with him as well. He is too upright too much of the time. Williams exposed that last night.

Ferrell is going to go against Williams-level guys or higher every week. If he is the pick at #2 (I doubt it) the staff is going to have to coach him up big-time.