Originally posted by wolfpack2192:
What the hell is wrong with this fan base? You guys are missing the point of this RB completely. This guy is a WR who can be a RB. This dude with Shanahan will be a nightmare for alot of teams and you will see linebackers trying to conver this guy. He is an UPGRADE in pass blocking over an atrocious Hyde. We can get a power running back in the draft if we Need one, but I'm not so sure it's needed in Shanahans offense. This guy has sure hands and is elusive in the open field. He will be a huge asset to this offense and I can't wait for all you fair weather fans to walk your s**t back come game time. Jimmy G is going to hit this dude often, save my post.
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Jerick 'Jet' McKinnon is a Chief.
Mar 14, 2018 at 12:56 PM
- Giedi
- Veteran
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Mar 14, 2018 at 12:57 PM
- sfout
- Veteran
- Posts: 6,443
Originally posted by wolfpack2192:
What the hell is wrong with this fan base? You guys are missing the point of this RB completely. This guy is a WR who can be a RB. This dude with Shanahan will be a nightmare for alot of teams and you will see linebackers trying to conver this guy. He is an UPGRADE in pass blocking over an atrocious Hyde. We can get a power running back in the draft if we Need one, but I'm not so sure it's needed in Shanahans offense. This guy has sure hands and is elusive in the open field. He will be a huge asset to this offense and I can't wait for all you fair weather fans to walk your s**t back come game time. Jimmy G is going to hit this dude often, save my post.
I said this several pages ago and it was glossed over with the quickness. Given the state of our WR group and need at RB, they saw McKinnion as another OW to line up at RB and WR so paying him 7.5 a year is nothing for what he'll bring to the team and why the lower end contracts of hyde and Dion Lewis have no bearing on the perceived overpayment to McKinnion.
Mar 14, 2018 at 12:58 PM
- Jiks
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Refreshing post, thank you!Originally posted by Niners816:Here are a couple of Kyle's staple concepts that the half backs plays a big role in the concept. These were highlighted in an article prior to SB52 but they are WCO staples and Kyle's been doing them for years.
The article refers to this first play as a follow concept.
in this example you have the flanker dragging/driving across and the back is running an angle route also referred to as a Texas route. It's called Texas because this route is the basis of the Texas concepts which is a classic WCO cover 2 beater. As drawn though it's what used to be referred to as Hammer in the old school Niner playbooks. Long story short, the back in these type of plays are pretty high up on the progression. Usually primary or secondary and are not simply checkdowns in these cases.
Here's another one where the back and his speed is very important.
This play can be either mesh's or shallow crosses. But the back runs a wheel out of the backfield. Speed is very beneficial on these type of plays.
Mar 14, 2018 at 12:58 PM
- walker807
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Originally posted by Giedi:Originally posted by walker807:Originally posted by Giedi:Originally posted by Niners816:Originally posted by Giedi:Originally posted by Niners816:Originally posted by Giedi:I like the fact that Kyle can go from 21 personnel to 11 personnel just by changing the formation. Do defenses play base or nickel or dime?
Man o Man 2018 is going to be *fun* to watch offensively.
Not to get nitpicky, but formation doesn't dictate personnel grouping. Personnel always dictates it. If there is 2 backs and 1 TE on the field it will always be 21 personnel no matter what formation you line up in.
Now our Swiss army knive player is juice....he can act as a back and a move TE so in theory we could bounce between 21 and 12 personnel.
You could go 10 personnel (1HB, 0TE, 4WR) and Line up in a wishbone but it's still 10 personnel.
Totally agree, but McKinnon definitely will stress out defenses that operate the 4-3 under by giving the QB more options in the passing game. The problem defenses have with McKinnon is he can be WR and RB at the same time, so does the defense play base or nickel? The 49ers can go from the 4 wide formation to the diamond formation to an unbalanced line and that would play heck with the defensive calls. Specially with Juszcyzk being a tweener FB/TE, the options just multiply specially with a QB that knows what he's doing on 3rd down!
I think it would matter who comprises the two backs in 21 personnel. If it's McKinnon and Juice, I'd imagine defenses would play base. If it's brieda and McKinnon they might go Nickel to matchup.
Yes, I definitely agree. But Juice is a hybrid TE/FB and McKinnon is a hybrid RB/WR - and so you'd have to play a hybrid defense that I don't think exists in the NFL yet. If defense goes nickel, why not play I formation? If defense aligns in base, why not go 4 wide? (or something like that) You JD, Thl, and the other football nerds will probably figure it out, because I don't think I have the brain cells to even come close to solving that offensive problem.
This is what I want to see. You can have 21 personnel in the huddle and run a traditional outside zone run, followed by and empty back passing set....without changing personnel. Defenses are going to have a fit trying to figure out what package to put on the field.
Exactly, and if you catch them in Nickel, go no huddle and run it down their throats! Catch them in base and you burn them in the air. Defense can't win. At some point, this offense will look like the unstoppable '94 offense. My worry is that we need a defense like *1984* if we want to win another Lombardi. Defense wins championships.
Hopefully we got our Deoin, though the age and Achilles does worry me a little. The food news is that Sherman can't be worse than Dontae answer are basically a pass rusher away from being above avg on D. A lot of pressure on Saleh to stay on top of things. Jags D is stacked on paper and we saw what a good QB and Playcaller can still do against it with a lot of garbage players on offense.
Mar 14, 2018 at 1:01 PM
- NYniner85
- Veteran
- Posts: 110,948
Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
People be upset because mckinnon is a 2nd/3rd string rb we just paid 7 mill for.
He fits better than hyde in the scheme but isn't near as talented as a runner and we could have just paid hyde to stay.
It's like he's 1/2 of the freeman Coleman combo but he's the Coleman half and they paid him like he's the freeman half.
I see it as what are we paying our RBs right now without him? This yr it's $1.2 million...throw in the jet and we're at around $8.7 million (depending on the contract) for 4 RBs I'd say that's just fine.
I hope they draft a guy to compliment him in the mid rds we will see.
Mar 14, 2018 at 1:02 PM
- IdahoNiner
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- Posts: 9,543
Not a huge fan of this signing personally.
Mar 14, 2018 at 1:03 PM
- GMniner805
- Member
- Posts: 1,960
Originally posted by Jcool:Originally posted by GMniner805:Lynch/Parag should have brought him back he would have came cheap, especially since Brieda is arguably the same player Mckinnon is on a rookie contact.
lol what?
Breida = change of pace back/OW
Mckinnon = change of pace back/OW
One just got a 4 years 30 million, one is on a rookie contract. IMO the 49ers didn't need to over pay Mckinnon. They could get similar production from Brieda.
Mar 14, 2018 at 1:06 PM
- qnnhan7
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Originally posted by Niners816:Originally posted by Giedi:Originally posted by jonnydel:I really agree here. Teams that have been operating this defense have one area that can get picked on with the right personnel - the SAM backer in coverage. NE did it to SEA in the SB. That SAM backer is gonna be a guy in the 255-265 range and more of a 3-4 OLB type. He's usually responsible for the flat coverage on his side as 4-3 "under" usually runs a "buzz" flat coverage. It makes it easier on the SAM backer as he just has to cover laterally out to the flat. However, if the TE is hooked over the middle and the WR on that side is clearing out, you isolate a RB on that SAM backer where he has about 15 yards of area to cover that RB in. A guy like McKinnon could flourish in that area.Originally posted by Giedi:Originally posted by Niners816:Originally posted by Giedi:I like the fact that Kyle can go from 21 personnel to 11 personnel just by changing the formation. Do defenses play base or nickel or dime?
Man o Man 2018 is going to be *fun* to watch offensively.
Not to get nitpicky, but formation doesn't dictate personnel grouping. Personnel always dictates it. If there is 2 backs and 1 TE on the field it will always be 21 personnel no matter what formation you line up in.
Now our Swiss army knive player is juice....he can act as a back and a move TE so in theory we could bounce between 21 and 12 personnel.
You could go 10 personnel (1HB, 0TE, 4WR) and Line up in a wishbone but it's still 10 personnel.
Totally agree, but McKinnon definitely will stress out defenses that operate the 4-3 under by giving the QB more options in the passing game. The problem defenses have with McKinnon is he can be WR and RB at the same time, so does the defense play base or nickel? The 49ers can go from the 4 wide formation to the diamond formation to an unbalanced line and that would play heck with the defensive calls. Specially with Juszcyzk being a tweener FB/TE, the options just multiply specially with a QB that knows what he's doing on 3rd down!
Your idea was even better than mine. No way can you cover McKinnon with an LB out on a pass route. Add in play action - and it really makes it difficult to pick him up with the correct defensive matchup. With Juszcyzk drawing attention, you are right, that will be open 9 times out of 10.
Here are a couple of Kyle's staple concepts that the half backs plays a big role in the concept. These were highlighted in an article prior to SB52 but they are WCO staples and Kyle's been doing them for years.
The article refers to this first play as a follow concept.
in this example you have the flanker dragging/driving across and the back is running an angle route also referred to as a Texas route. It's called Texas because this route is the basis of the Texas concepts which is a classic WCO cover 2 beater. As drawn though it's what used to be referred to as Hammer in the old school Niner playbooks. Long story short, the back in these type of plays are pretty high up on the progression. Usually primary or secondary and are not simply checkdowns in these cases.
Here's another one where the back and his speed is very important.
This play can be either mesh's or shallow crosses. But the back runs a wheel out of the backfield. Speed is very beneficial on these type of plays. If defenses concentrate too much on the Mesh/shallow crosses you can get the back on a mismatch and get a big play. Now if the defenses aim to take away the wheel it helps open up the mesh/shallow cross.
My first thought when they signed McKinnon is Kyle busting up man coverage with McKinnon. Make them pay for manning up our receivers. Force them go to more zone, where up on Jimmy dicing and slicing
BTW what happened to your play diagrams looking like it came from an 80's fax machine
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Mar 14, 2018 at 1:08 PM ]
Mar 14, 2018 at 1:06 PM
- Jcool
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- NFL Pick 'em
Originally posted by GMniner805:
Breida = change of pace back/OW
Mckinnon = change of pace back/OW
One just got a 4 years 30 million, one is on a rookie contract. IMO the 49ers didn't need to over pay Mckinnon. They could get similar production from Brieda.
Matt Breida's Receiving grade: 45.1
— Oscar Aparicio (@BetterRivals) March 14, 2018
Pas blocking grade: 38.8
Just because you're small and fast doesn't mean you're a 3rd down back. Breida wins on outside zone runs and he's a deceptively good inside runner. https://t.co/d3KuLXmMtf
Mar 14, 2018 at 1:06 PM
- Joecool
- Veteran
- Posts: 70,984
Originally posted by wolfpack2192:
What the hell is wrong with this fan base? You guys are missing the point of this RB completely. This guy is a WR who can be a RB. This dude with Shanahan will be a nightmare for alot of teams and you will see linebackers trying to conver this guy. He is an UPGRADE in pass blocking over an atrocious Hyde. We can get a power running back in the draft if we Need one, but I'm not so sure it's needed in Shanahans offense. This guy has sure hands and is elusive in the open field. He will be a huge asset to this offense and I can't wait for all you fair weather fans to walk your s**t back come game time. Jimmy G is going to hit this dude often, save my post.
So you're saying he's like Ty Montgomery?
Mar 14, 2018 at 1:07 PM
- captveg
- Veteran
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Mar 14, 2018 at 1:07 PM
- StOnEy333
- Hall of Fame
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- NFL Pick 'em
Not sure if this has been linked yet:
Vikings fan, giving you a Vikings Fan perspective on him, including some gifs https://www.reddit.com/r/49ers/comments/84fefp/vikings_fan_giving_you_a_vikings_fan_perspective/?st=JERICHQS&sh=e84a8931
Vikings fan, giving you a Vikings Fan perspective on him, including some gifs https://www.reddit.com/r/49ers/comments/84fefp/vikings_fan_giving_you_a_vikings_fan_perspective/?st=JERICHQS&sh=e84a8931
Mar 14, 2018 at 1:08 PM
- a49erfan77
- Veteran
- Posts: 5,085
Jerrick McKinnon 49ers deal: $36.9M, $14.3M gtd, $2M bonus, salaries $4.2M, $3.7M, $6.5M, $6.9M; $5.5M roster bonus 2018
— Aaron Wilson (@AaronWilson_NFL) March 14, 2018
has a $6.9M option bonus for 2021 league year to be exercised prior to end of 2020 league year
Mar 14, 2018 at 1:08 PM
- Hangman_52
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,158
- NFL Pick 'em
Id rather have kept Hyde. Way over paid for this dude. He is just a 3rd down back at best and we already have that in Breda.
Mar 14, 2018 at 1:10 PM
- captveg
- Veteran
- Posts: 27,349
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Jerrick McKinnon 49ers deal: $36.9M, $14.3M gtd, $2M bonus, salaries $4.2M, $3.7M, $6.5M, $6.9M; $5.5M roster bonus 2018
— Aaron Wilson (@AaronWilson_NFL) March 14, 2018
has a $6.9M option bonus for 2021 league year to be exercised prior to end of 2020 league year
And the Paraag cycle commences again!
Look at those yearly salaries - if it doesn't work out, they can get out of it.