Kentavius Street-DE-NC State

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

That's a good point. The team probably looked at it this way:

CHOICE A: We take a guy who we see as very talented, even though we know won't play this year.

CHOICE B: We take a guy who we see as much less talented, even though we think he'll likely be inactive and/or barely play this year.

As Shanahan said, they didn't feel anyone else on their board had a chance to beat out who we already had. To them, if they were barely going to play, or not play at all, then what's left to base your decision on? The answer is obvious: TALENT. Street, when healthy, is a ferocious, athletic freak who has massive upside in terms of raw ability. He offered more long-term value than any of the other players did for Shanalynch, so when you think about it that way, it makes more sense why the did what they did.

Keep in mind this was a late 4th round pick, not a pick in the 2nd round, or even worse a reach like Baalke made with a 7th round talent when healthy in Smelter, going in the late 4th (WTF Trent, c'mon man). So, it wasn't some "way out there" massive reach or something. I don't like taking guys with torn ACLs, but I can't sit here and deny that Street has good tape when healthy. Better than Josh Sweat by a lot in my opinion. The only player I would've taken ahead of Street was Ogbonnia Okoronwo. So that is the extent of my disagreement with the pick. I liked Obo more as a DE or even a project at SAM, but time will tell if we made the right call here.

Well stated as always. Yeah, big fan of OO in our scheme too. Good call.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by cciowa:

you show me exactly where i said we missed on an AMAZING prospect,., all i have said. is i think we could have got someone to help us on some areas we need help in or someone that could have contributed in some way this year.. i never said we missed out on a pro bowler.. its just some people like to put those words in others mouths when they dare disagree with a lynch move

We also could have drafted a guy who is healthy but would not contribute this year. A guy who would not beat out those ahead of them on the depth chart or make the 46 man active roster. And then the same folks complaining about Street right now would be complaining about the 1-2 or maybe 3 guys taken in the final 125+ picks who did contribute in a meaningful way for the teams that took them.

i just find it hard to believe what a few have said, that this is the best pick we could have made at the time. the best pick of all the healthy guys on the board at the time? yes i know. you do not even have to say it.. trust the coach and gm. they know best. i was hoping we would sign the dt guy the falcons got or maybe at least bring in another body like we did with the offensive line. a guy who has a nfl resume who can compete along the line. i am not thrilled overall by the current crew there. i said overall by the way

This was the very tail end of round 4. We had a 3rd round grade on the kid, so from a value standpoint with regards to OUR draft board yes it is probably the best pick we could have made. Chances are so very low that we are finding an All Pro type player from the "healthy" guys available at 128 and chances are had we picked a kid who could compete from day 1, he would not have made a difference in the win loss column.

What exactly would you say if we took a healthy kid at 128 and he failed to be a part of the active 46 this season ? Would it be accurate to say "well at least we tried" ?

That's a good point. The team probably looked at it this way:

CHOICE A: We take a guy who we see as very talented, even though we know won't play this year.

CHOICE B: We take a guy who we see as much less talented, even though we think he'll likely be inactive and/or barely play this year.

As Shanahan said, they didn't feel anyone else on their board had a chance to beat out who we already had. To them, if they were barely going to play, or not play at all, then what's left to base your decision on? The answer is obvious: TALENT. Street, when healthy, is a ferocious, athletic freak who has massive upside in terms of raw ability. He offered more long-term value than any of the other players did for Shanalynch, so when you think about it that way, it makes more sense why the did what they did.

Keep in mind this was a late 4th round pick, not a pick in the 2nd round, or even worse a reach like Baalke made with a 7th round talent when healthy in Smelter, going in the late 4th (WTF Trent, c'mon man). So, it wasn't some "way out there" massive reach or something. I don't like taking guys with torn ACLs, but I can't sit here and deny that Street has good tape when healthy. Better than Josh Sweat by a lot in my opinion. The only player I would've taken ahead of Street was Ogbonnia Okoronwo. So that is the extent of my disagreement with the pick. I liked Obo more as a DE or even a project at SAM, but time will tell if we made the right call here.

Good post.

Another way to look at this : we had a 3rd round grade on the kid according to TPTB and we took him in round 4 but he likely will not contribute until next year. So in essence we traded our 4th round pick in 2018 for a 3rd round pick/talent in 2019.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm starting to think it might be the easiest DL to find.

I think it is. You can find guys that can play head up, play two gaps and hold the POA off the street. There are a surplus of unsigned 5/6 techs right now and during the season.

The reason they're so available is that those guys rarely can get to the QB.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NCommand:

I'm starting to think it might be the easiest DL to find.

I think it is. You can find guys that can play head up, play two gaps and hold the POA off the street. There are a surplus of unsigned 5/6 techs right now and during the season.

The reason they're so available is that those guys rarely can get to the QB.

Agreed. I think the team sees the polish in those areas with the upside in pass rush with Street that intrigues them.

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by evil:

This was the very tail end of round 4. We had a 3rd round grade on the kid, so from a value standpoint with regards to OUR draft board yes it is probably the best pick we could have made. Chances are so very low that we are finding an All Pro type player from the "healthy" guys available at 128 and chances are had we picked a kid who could compete from day 1, he would not have made a difference in the win loss column.

What exactly would you say if we took a healthy kid at 128 and he failed to be a part of the active 46 this season ? Would it be accurate to say "well at least we tried" ?

where did i say all pro? never said it. just said find a guy who could have contributed, its fine. like most things you and i will just agree to disagree here

But there is no assurance that any other prospect we take that is healthy can contribute this year.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by pdizo916:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Good risks are still risks. They don't all pay out, but some do, and sometimes they pay out great. If you don't take risks you can't win.

this isn't a good risk. This is a dumbass selection by Baalke....i mean lynch.

Wow what an amazing response that explained everything on why it's a poor pick

it's a day 3 pick man...this draft overall was piss poor once you got to day 3. At that pt it's all about upside and development. Who they drafting at 128 that we'd expect to be a day 1 starter?

Some on here say to wait 3-4 years to determine if the draft picks are good or bad.

Yet some say it was a bad draft.

Pros and cons for both sides of the fence, but some play both sides of the fence.

This was a "luxury" pick, for a team that has talent in most facets, which we are not.

You said... "Who they drafting at 128 that we'd expect to be a day 1 starter?"
I hope our group of decision makers don't have that attitude.

It is ok not to agree with some of the front offices decisions.


I don't agree picking an injured player this draft, but we did so I'm hoping he heals up and is a complete bad ass for us.
That's my hope.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by evil:
This was the very tail end of round 4. We had a 3rd round grade on the kid, so from a value standpoint with regards to OUR draft board yes it is probably the best pick we could have made. Chances are so very low that we are finding an All Pro type player from the "healthy" guys available at 128 and chances are had we picked a kid who could compete from day 1, he would not have made a difference in the win loss column.

What exactly would you say if we took a healthy kid at 128 and he failed to be a part of the active 46 this season ? Would it be accurate to say "well at least we tried" ?

where did i say all pro? never said it. just said find a guy who could have contributed, its fine. like most things you and i will just agree to disagree here

But there is no assurance that any other prospect we take that is healthy can contribute this year.

Evil just refused to agree to disagree. It's on now!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:
It's judgement call, and I don't agree with ShanaLynch's judgment on this particular pick. There is clearly a need at edge rusher and they didn't take one here. Also, another option was simply to trade out of the round and get a future draft pick for next year. It's the same thing. Street isn't going to play this year and next year he'll still be in recovery - instead of going through that just, trade this years 4rth for next years 4rth or 3rd. I'm sure there will be players in the draft next year that can play the Big End position also that are 1. younger 2. don't have that injury 3. don't have to have another year of recovery to play through.

Big End is the key here. We found players off the streets who could play that role. I'm starting to think it might be the easiest DL to find. Now, finding one who has real pass rush ability on that strong side to go along with excellent run defense? That's why we committed $9M to find out if Armstead can do it. The FO may feel Street has a similar skill set to boot...some day.

Meh, I don't agree with that thinking. Big end is where the QB can spot the rush coming because it's not the blind side. I don't think rushing from that side is really effective. You can instead do a changeup and drop off the LEO edge rusher into the flat or zone and blitz the corner or safety from the right side and get pressure that way and rotate the zone.. Basically it's the coverage that Johnny Dell said (I forget the call) something like cover one robber. The point of the edge rusher coming from the blind side is to create pressure, hit's and turnovers (strip sacks - for example). I've never seen any of Seifert's super bowl defenses have an elite edge rusher on that side of the defense. And I don't think he ever needed any on that side either. Dwain Board, Stucky, etc.. did adequate jobs two-gapping against the TE/OT and holding that side of the rush defense. They were not elite edge rusher superstars.

If you have to go against an elite edge rusher, as an offense you're either forced to go into a one back two tight end set, or you are forced to move the TE to wherever the LEO edge rusher is coming from (in a passing down - not a base down) and that screws up the protection schemes or limits the passing attack because they are operating with two TE's instead of WR's that can go deep and shake the LB's off and catch balls. The point of this is that the BE is not a pass rushing position. Personally I could care less if they put an NT in that position, as long as you can have an edge rusher that can dictate the protection schemes by just moving to the other side the way Fred did. I would rather have ShanaLynch take a *risk* on a weak position by taking a guy like Obo or Sweat than a *risk* on a BE position that's really not an impact position based upon the scheme of this defense.

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:

I'm worried about Streets knee's overall. I'm mean he squats 700 lbs. as part of his workouts. I don't know if his joints can handle that type of stress.

Dude you don't squat 700lbs as part of your regular workout....that was a max out one rep. He's not doing that on leg day every day

Still, have you seen the size of his legs? They're massive - he's bound to have knee problems in the future.

I mean he's a football player, they all have massive legs...it's not like he's 350 lbs I don't see any issue with his legs at all.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NCommand:

I'm starting to think it might be the easiest DL to find.

I think it is. You can find guys that can play head up, play two gaps and hold the POA off the street. There are a surplus of unsigned 5/6 techs right now and during the season.

The reason they're so available is that those guys rarely can get to the QB.

Thanks. I should have just asked you first anyhow. LOL

Originally posted by Giedi:

It's judgement call, and I don't agree with ShanaLynch's judgment on this particular pick. There is clearly a need at edge rusher and they didn't take one here. Also, another option was simply to trade out of the round and get a future draft pick for next year. It's the same thing. Street isn't going to play this year and next year he'll still be in recovery - instead of going through that just, trade this years 4rth for next years 4rth or 3rd. I'm sure there will be players in the draft next year that can play the Big End position also that are 1. younger 2. don't have that injury 3. don't have to have another year of recovery to play through.

Dude you can't magically make a good edge prospect for our 4-3 defense appear at pick 128 and you can't assume that we can just trade for picks next yr....also if you're looking at it that way then we did just that, took a player that will basically be a rookie next yr( who will get mental reps all yr). no one wanted to draft a edge guy more than me BUT there just wasn't any end of the day. Landry was my pick, but I didn't know about the health issues.

he might play big end, he might play LEO, he could play inside in certain packages, hell he was in coverage in certain plays for N.C. state this yr....dude is a 3 down player with versatility.

It's a day 3 pick and after watching more film of him I'm cool with it...people need to calm their tits on the 128th pick in the draft lol....everyone acting like we burnt a 1st rd pick on a ACL prospect.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Giedi:
It's judgement call, and I don't agree with ShanaLynch's judgment on this particular pick. There is clearly a need at edge rusher and they didn't take one here. Also, another option was simply to trade out of the round and get a future draft pick for next year. It's the same thing. Street isn't going to play this year and next year he'll still be in recovery - instead of going through that just, trade this years 4rth for next years 4rth or 3rd. I'm sure there will be players in the draft next year that can play the Big End position also that are 1. younger 2. don't have that injury 3. don't have to have another year of recovery to play through.

Dude you can't magically make a good edge prospect for our 4-3 defense appear at pick 128 and you can't assume that we can just trade for picks next yr....also if you're looking at it that way then we did just that, took a player that will basically be a rookie next yr( who will get mental reps all yr). no one wanted to draft a edge guy more than me BUT there just wasn't any end of the day. Landry was my pick, but I didn't know about the health issues.

he might play big end, he might play LEO, he could play inside in certain packages, hell he was in coverage in certain plays for N.C. state this yr....dude is a 3 down player with versatility.

It's a day 3 pick and after watching more film of him I'm cool with it...people need to calm their tits on the 128th pick in the draft lol....everyone acting like we burnt a 1st rd pick on a ACL prospect.

I agree, it's basically a wash if you trade out of the 4th for next years draft pick vs taking Street. But the advantage of trading out and getting a future pick is the guy you pick next year is younger and healthier, and probably can play much sooner at 100% than Street. Also, you have the flexibility to move that draft pick to another position if for some reason another position needs additional draft capital (say for example Sherman doesn't pan out) we can use that 4rth pick in 2019 for a DB vs. a DT. What we have now is that we are locked into a guy that basically plays Big End, and they aren't that hard to find vs an edge rusher and the future flexibility of a 2019 draft pick.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by evil:
This was the very tail end of round 4. We had a 3rd round grade on the kid, so from a value standpoint with regards to OUR draft board yes it is probably the best pick we could have made. Chances are so very low that we are finding an All Pro type player from the "healthy" guys available at 128 and chances are had we picked a kid who could compete from day 1, he would not have made a difference in the win loss column.

What exactly would you say if we took a healthy kid at 128 and he failed to be a part of the active 46 this season ? Would it be accurate to say "well at least we tried" ?

where did i say all pro? never said it. just said find a guy who could have contributed, its fine. like most things you and i will just agree to disagree here

But there is no assurance that any other prospect we take that is healthy can contribute this year.

and you could have just wasted a draft pick on a guy who will go the route our other acl guys have taken. well. if i do not trust this guy to make the team next year and you do not trust anyone else we could have drafted to help us or even make the team this year. we should have just forfeited the pick.! who was that?/ the vikings back in the day

Originally posted by jeepzilla:

Some on here say to wait 3-4 years to determine if the draft picks are good or bad.

Yet some say it was a bad draft.

Pros and cons for both sides of the fence, but some play both sides of the fence.

This was a "luxury" pick, for a team that has talent in most facets, which we are not.

You said... "Who they drafting at 128 that we'd expect to be a day 1 starter?"
I hope our group of decision makers don't have that attitude.

It is ok not to agree with some of the front offices decisions.


I don't agree picking an injured player this draft, but we did so I'm hoping he heals up and is a complete bad ass for us.
That's my hope.

So draft someone who's healthy that might not play a single snap for us this yr? Who was there? Honestly? A 3rd string TE with zero pass-catching abilities? A edge rusher who's knees are made of mush? I mean who would you have rather had that would have made some great impact AND has the upside of Street long term?

Apparently we weren't the only team hot for him at that point in the draft either. We have a fine rotation at DL this yr, but that could change come 2019...wouldn't it be nice to have a guy like Street healthy and ready to roll, instead of having to invest more draft capital into the DL again?

People need to look at every draft and the talent in each draft because they aren't the same yr to yr. At that point IMHO it was slim pickings to get possible impact players, if Streets comes back healthy he has the overall ability to be an impact player...same can't be said for a lot of guys that got taken at that pt.

I sure as s**t don't love every single move our FO makes...I wasn't on the McGlinchey bandwagon and still am bummed (but I get it). I thought they could have made more of a effort to get some edge help via trade or in FA but that hasn't happened.

Originally posted by Giedi:

I agree, it's basically a wash if you trade out of the 4th for next years draft pick vs taking Street. But the advantage of trading out and getting a future pick is the guy you pick next year is younger and healthier, and probably can play much sooner at 100% than Street. Also, you have the flexibility to move that draft pick to another position if for some reason another position needs additional draft capital (say for example Sherman doesn't pan out) we can use that 4rth pick in 2019 for a DB vs. a DT. What we have now is that we are locked into a guy that basically plays Big End, and they aren't that hard to find vs an edge rusher and the future flexibility of a 2019 draft pick.

Only not every team wants to trade a future pick for a late 4th rd pick...not sure what kind of flexibility you're getting with low mid rd picks, especially if your goal is to find some stud edge rusher. Street can rush the passer as well.

Again it was the 128th pick in the draft NOT a top 64 pick or even top 100 pick...day 3. Seattle just spent the 79th pick on Rasheem Green who's gonna play big end for them, dude imo isn't as good as Street and has health issues as well.