Khalil Mack thread

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by mojave45:

All that Fri b said you don't use both draft capital and cap space at the same time on one player at ER who doesn't absolutely take over games. Certainly not on a ten that's not one player away from contending thus season. And we aren't.

Well beating the Titans and the Jags last year kinda proves to me we aren't at the bottom of the barrel either.

We are very thin at some areas in the team, still need to do some work on the oline, haven't seen how durable JG is, don't know if Beathard can be above minimally serviceable, I am not sure of how Sherman comes back on and plays, and need one more decent reliable LB. And you want to spend two firsts and a $100M on a single player? Uh huh.

Not sure why this is the case, but Vegas has a bet which team Khalil Mack is going to be playing for by the end of October. The favorite is not the Raiders, its the Packers.

2 number one's. Don't think about it just do it he would be part of the puzzle to winning it all idc what he wants to be paid. You don't find players like him.

Originally posted by mojave45:

We are very thin at some areas in the team, still need to do some work on the oline, haven't seen how durable JG is, don't know if Beathard can be above minimally serviceable, I am not sure of how Sherman comes back on and plays, and need one more decent reliable LB. And you want to spend two firsts and a $100M on a single player? Uh huh.

But Mack would improve our pass defense by being a consistent pass rusher. He fills our weakest point on our D at SAM LBer. And we will be spending one of those 1st round picks on a edge rusher more than likely so really we would be giving up a first and a big contract to one of the best defenders in the NFL in his prime. Trying to see the downside

a DL with Mack, Solly & DeFo would be absurd

but likely no chance of happening

Originally posted by SisterFister:
Mack fined 814k for missing 1st preseason game. Armstead + a 1st and a 3rd seems like reasonable compensation. Not sure why we aren't calling Oakland every day. We have the money to pay him without damaging the future.

Talk about the 1 player who could make this defense elite.

We could very well be calling Oakland every day. This is the same GM who asked the Patriots about Brady. I'm sure he's talked to the Raiders at least once, not matter how improbable their odds of saying yes are.

I'm warming to the idea of trading for mack.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

a DL with Mack, Solly & DeFo would be absurd

but likely no chance of happening

That would be nice!

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by mojave45:

We are very thin at some areas in the team, still need to do some work on the oline, haven't seen how durable JG is, don't know if Beathard can be above minimally serviceable, I am not sure of how Sherman comes back on and plays, and need one more decent reliable LB. And you want to spend two firsts and a $100M on a single player? Uh huh.

But Mack would improve our pass defense by being a consistent pass rusher. He fills our weakest point on our D at SAM LBer. And we will be spending one of those 1st round picks on a edge rusher more than likely so really we would be giving up a first and a big contract to one of the best defenders in the NFL in his prime. Trying to see the downside

First and Big Contract.

Only a first? Sure.🤣

But the problem isn't even giving up two firsts, which is more likely. We may have to do that to get the guy we want in the draft. And the problem isn't giving up a huge, not just big, but huge contract. The problem is doing both. Either or, I would be fine with. But pay that much and you better be filling your other holes in the draft. Give up those picks and you better have all kind of cap space available, because you will have to do some FA shopping at some point.

He's gonna wind up with the Rams.

Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:

He's gonna wind up with the Rams.

That's their MO.

Originally posted by mojave45:

Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:

He's gonna wind up with the Rams.

That's their MO.

Screw them

Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:

He's gonna wind up with the Rams.

Don't think that will happen. They need to pay Donald

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

I think Dynasties are built on franchise QB's and elite pass rushers. You had the Steelers, you had the Raiders, Dallas with Harvy Martin and Randy White, and somebody mentioned McGinest and Jones for the Pat's dynasty. Elite edge rushers are the second most valuable player after the QB in terms of player salary. The question is whether or not Kalil is worth 2 first round picks, and my point is - is it really 2 first round picks when the most probable spot for those picks would be in the 20th spot or lower? That's really not much better than two very high 2nd round picks in my opinion. I think ShanaLynch is right - get a franchise QB passer and then get an elite edge rusher that can stop the pass and knock down the opposing QB.

How is McGinest an elite edge rusher? I think people throw around the world elite wayyyyy too much. Yes, you need good pass rush no doubt (I was beating the table for one all draft season). NE did't have constant elite edge rushers. They won because of their QB and coaching period.

Also you can't conclude that those picks will be in the low 20s...we're a JG injury away from drafting top 5 imo. What happens if he gets hurt and our draft pick we moved was in place to draft a Nick Bosa? Nah,edge rushers are important but there is no way in hell a football player outside of a top end QB is worth the trade compensation people are talking about...it's a damn joke to even consider it.

People get all infatuated with names and don't really step back and look at everything. Mack is a stud but he helped the 23rd overall defense last yr. that's not worth two 1sts (and $100 million) it's just not.

The ability to pass rush really changes the game dynamics.
Here's a team that traded two first rounders to get a pass rusher. I'm not saying Kalil is worth two first rounders but am saying that this is a data point that you *have* to account for in valuing Pass rushers from a draft value perspective.

Fans and media types alike heaped criticism on the New Orleans Saints for their decision at the 2018 NFL Draft to trade a pair of first-round picks (and a fifth-rounder) to move up to the 14th spot where they drafted Texas-San Antonio defensive end Marcus Davenport. Head coach Sean Payton defended the move by pointing out that, as a pass rusher, Davenport played at one of the league's premier positions — the kind of game-changer he couldn't find on the free agent market during the offseason.
"One of the offseason targets was a pressure player and that might come as a guy who lines up inside, it might come from a player that lines up outside," Payton told the media at a May press conference. "But before we check that box we have to feel like he can affect the quarterback and in our league, there's a premium on a few different positions, one of them is that, one of them is a corner. We saw the quarterbacks and the tackles. We can't find those guys when the season is over with and we start free agency. They're generally players you have to draft.
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/5/11/17326722/nfl-free-agent-pass-rusher-position-salary

Also agree that they aren't cheap and that you will devote a significant amount of cap space to said elite edge rusher.

"If the most important person on the field is the quarterback, the second-most important person must be the guy who gets to the quarterback," said Chuck Smith, a former all-pro defensive end and founder of Chuck Smith Training Systems, where he has consulted with and coached some of the best pass rushers in the NFL, including Von Miller, Vic Beasley and Aaron Donald. "You want to hit the quarterback as much as you can because that changes the dynamics of the game."

And that type of game changer doesn't come cheap. Among the 25 highest contracts being paid to NFL players, 10 are quarterbacks and nine are pass-rushing specialists, including Miller, J.J. Watt, Fletcher Cox and Olivier Vernon, each of whom average more than $17 million per season. But the return on investment is substantial because, put simply, sacks kill drives
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2017/08/01/the-value-of-a-sack-and-why-pass-rusher-is-the-nfls-second-most-important-position/?utm_term=.6f8eb5aebb2f

The QB position and the Edge Rusher position are almost similar in value according to the NFL market value. That's not *me* saying it, that's the *market* saying it.

I do not equate the davenport trade as trading Mack for two first at all (they knew the draft spot of one of the picks)...they also have davenport on a low rookie deal for 4-5 yrs. OH and NO is on the cusp of a possible SB appearance.

It's not the same situation at all. The closest comparable trade scenario (recently) was the chandler jones deal. He only had 4 less sacks (with less games), they were both on 5th yr options (jones wasn't holding out), and jones was 2 yrs younger....and it only cost a 2nd rd pick.

I understand how important edge rusher is, I've neen talking about it all draft (Landry). Again people are over valuing Mack, great player love to have him but two 1sts and $100 million AND you have to pay Buck something crazy soon as well.

No dude you need those 1st rd picks so you can have top talent for cheap. They're gold as long as you draft right.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

2 number one's. Don't think about it just do it he would be part of the puzzle to winning it all idc what he wants to be paid. You don't find players like him.

Would be dumb as s**t let someone else spend that draft capital and $100 million.