Originally posted by NYniner85:
I do not equate the davenport trade as trading Mack for two first at all (they knew the draft spot of one of the picks)...they also have davenport on a low rookie deal for 4-5 yrs. OH and NO is on the cusp of a possible SB appearance.
It's not the same situation at all. The closest comparable trade scenario (recently) was the chandler jones deal. He only had 4 less sacks (with less games), they were both on 5th yr options (jones wasn't holding out), and jones was 2 yrs younger....and it only cost a 2nd rd pick.
I understand how important edge rusher is, I've neen talking about it all draft (Landry). Again people are over valuing Mack, great player love to have him but two 1sts and $100 million AND you have to pay Buck something crazy soon as well.
No dude you need those 1st rd picks so you can have top talent for cheap. They're gold as long as you draft right.
Disagree, but not going to be disagreeable.
Your position is: don't overvalue edge rushers: you can draft them later, also build through the draft, and also you need to hoard cap space to make sure you pay the rest of the defense money, because paying too much for edge rusher endangers a ball club's ability to man the rest of the defense with good Players.
Draft value - again, you have to take into account the fact that Kyle can take unknown WR's (and other offensive positions) and turn them into gold. Use that unique ability to overload on defense. Because defense is more about talent. You might have to pay through the nose (2 number 1 picks) to get defensive talent, but you can offset the loss of draft capital with Kyle's abitliy to simply spot offensive talent from lower in the draft.
As for the cap, Kalil is going to get paid by somebody, why not us? He is going to get paid his fair market value as long as he stays healthy. Fair market value is fair market value. You pay Jimmy what you pay Jimmy, and if he sucks you take the cap hit as a gamble risk. Same with Kalil. You pay Kalil fair market value and structure his contract as best as you can. Once you have the foundation of the defense, *then* you can use the rest of the draft to bolster the rest of the defensive postions.
Edge rusher is an impact position that makes the rest of the defense better, just as a QB does for the offense and the rest of the team. The 1981 defense was composed of average to a little bit above average players on the rest of the 10 positions outside of Fred Dean. Jack Reynolds, was too old, too slow, and couldn't cover anybody. The DB's were pretty much all rookies. The rest of the D Line was pedestrian with Nost Tackle Archie Reese decent to good. Aldon take's a mediocre performing defense and turns it Elite. Haley wins us 2 super bowls and then 3 with Dallas. That's the impact of an edge rusher and that position (so says the market -not me) is *WORTH* high round picks and a big chunk of the cap. Just like an elite QB would.
Your can argue that on the Harbaugh era defense: Aldon was placed on a defense that was elite (Willis, Bowman etc.) and that it wasn't Aldon that made the defense elite but Pat and the rest of the defense. My position, it was a middle of the road defense and had a weak secondary, the Aldon pick transformed that defense into an elite level defense because he could shut down the pass (even in limited duties). (Harbaugh - who is offensively less talented than Kyle) rode that defense to 3 deep playoff runs - without a credible offense. Kyle, with his ability to generate offense with basically undrafted players can take that kind of a defense and ride the same train. Not only that, but with his Franchise QB there, I think the big dance is in play with a defense that has an elite ege rusher.
From the above, putting a big amount of cap space on the QB and the Edge rusher actually saves money because all you need are *good* but not great players on the rest of the defensive and offensive positions. Finally, we have what most other teams don't have (in my opinion) the cap master in Marathee - he can make it work with accelerated depreciation contracts just like Jimmy's and just like Tom Brady's.
Finally, you da best NY85, I love your football knowlege - you can bring it in arguments! I totally respect that!
also had Shaun Hill and that's it on that Vikings roster (Minn was put in a hole with no QB in Sept )...also up until last yr he had the highest completion % for a single season (2016) at 71.6. Dude threw for 3,900 yards 20TDs and 5 INTs. Not too shabby. 