Chicago Bears vs. San Francisco 49ers Rebuilding Plan

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Pretty straightforward to me.

LOL.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Chicago had the 10th ranked defense than added a defensive MVP candidate as well as Roquan Smith. Defensively it's no surprise they're ballers. Offensively they're good enough. Not many people predicted their success even after the Mack signing but it really shouldn't be a shock.

Yep. If we add Nick Bosa and he plays up to his potential, and Reuben Foster comes back to play at a Pro-Bowl level (what is going on with him!) - we should see a huge jump in our play and overall grades on our defense across the board.

Man, if we can then add Earl Thomas, Jalen Ramsey, and/ or another of the pro-bowl caliber DEs that could hit free agency. Damn. We can have an elite D alongside a talented Jimm G led O.

That's ONLY if Lynch wants to go that Ryan Pace-urgent-route.

ShanaLynch seem more fixed on the long-game. They reserve the right to change that plan at any moment as much as they reserve the right to stay the course with their 6-year contracts.

We'll find out soon.

I don't understand the Zone saying that they "lack" urgency. This past offseason, they paid 3 highly priced free agents in Sherman, Richburg and McKinnon. People called it an "arms race" between SF and LA who spent big. That's not a normal thing to do.

They tried for Mack as well at a HUGE potential price (23mil / year + 2 1st rounders). 31 teams didn't get Mack. Sounds like we were aggressive as all hell for him.

We were almost too aggressive for Juice and Jet on the other hand - Juice was totally worth it but I was against the Jet contract. We've been one of the most aggressive front offices since ShanaLynch joined. Yes, Chicago and LA were as well.

Differences is they've been building for longer, Mitchell took a giant leap up in play and Goff is playing out of his mind. We lost our QB. One more offseason guys.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Pretty straightforward to me.

LOL.

Me too. Why the LOL? Their 2016 offseason was critical. It produced Jordan Howard, Whitehair, Leonard Floyd, Bullard, Danny Trevathan, and Aliem Hicks. That's 6 super productive starters for them. Probably their best player on defense not named Mack, Kyle Fuller was an old 1st rounder for them too.

I didn't even look at 2015.

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

I don't understand the Zone saying that they "lack" urgency. This past offseason, they paid 3 highly priced free agents in Sherman, Richburg and McKinnon. People called it an "arms race" between SF and LA who spent big. That's not a normal thing to do.

They tried for Mack as well at a HUGE potential price (23mil / year + 2 1st rounders). 31 teams didn't get Mack. Sounds like we were aggressive as all hell for him.

We were almost too aggressive for Juice and Jet on the other hand - Juice was totally worth it but I was against the Jet contract. We've been one of the most aggressive front offices since ShanaLynch joined. Yes, Chicago and LA were as well.

Differences is they've been building for longer, Mitchell took a giant leap up in play and Goff is playing out of his mind. We lost our QB. One more offseason guys.

You're only aggressive if you secure the players. You don't get 2nd place ribbons for trying hard in team building.

The players you listed, none of them make even $10M APY...most teams add a few starters every year via FA. They are willing to pay a ton for FB and RB because unless your last name is Bell, those are relatively cheaper position groups. Same with C or G unless you go after an all pro like Andrew Norwell (which we did not).

And your last bolded point has already been refuted the past two pages (re: Bears).

Rams? Yes, that's very true but that's why the name of this thread isn't called, 'Los Angeles Rams vs. San Francisco 49ers Rebuilding Plan.'

But yeah! I think we're all hopeful they'll add some great skill positions now for Jimmy Garoppolo and crush the draft and stay healthy and bring this comparison to a much more even playing field (like September 2018).

BUT, they first need to do it.

I'm just warning you that they may not. They have 6 year contracts and their philosophy is to "build their way out of this through the draft." And their modest moves have backed that up.

They don't have the same sense of urgency that Ryan Pace did who executed that into player acquisitions.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

I don't understand the Zone saying that they "lack" urgency. This past offseason, they paid 3 highly priced free agents in Sherman, Richburg and McKinnon. People called it an "arms race" between SF and LA who spent big. That's not a normal thing to do.

They tried for Mack as well at a HUGE potential price (23mil / year + 2 1st rounders). 31 teams didn't get Mack. Sounds like we were aggressive as all hell for him.

We were almost too aggressive for Juice and Jet on the other hand - Juice was totally worth it but I was against the Jet contract. We've been one of the most aggressive front offices since ShanaLynch joined. Yes, Chicago and LA were as well.

Differences is they've been building for longer, Mitchell took a giant leap up in play and Goff is playing out of his mind. We lost our QB. One more offseason guys.

You're only aggressive if you secure the players. You don't get 2nd place ribbons for trying hard in team building.

The players you listed, none of them make even $10M. They are willing to pay a ton for FB and RB because unless your last name is Bell, those are relatively cheap position groups. Same with C or G unless you go after an all pro like Andrew Norwell.

And your last point has already been refuted the past two pages (re: Bears).

Rams? Yes, that's very true but that's why the name of this thread isn't called, 'Los Angeles Rams vs. San Francisco 49ers Rebuilding Plan.'

But yeah! I think we're all hopeful they'll add some great skill positions now for Jimmy Garoppolo and crush the draft and stay healthy and bring this comparison to a much more even playing field. BUT, they first need to do it.

I'm just warning you that they may not. They had 6 year contracts and their philosophy is to "build their way out of this through the draft." And there moves have backed that up.

They don't have the sense of urgency that Ryan Pace did.

I'm sorry - what is this 10mil threshold? They signed 3 of the highest paid players in free agency. That is the definition of aggressive.

I didn't see anywhere that you "disproved" my point about the bears and I notated why you're wrong on my second post.

You're giving me a "warning" that they might not solve all of our problems this offseason or hit on every move? Or that they won't be aggressive? The first warning you can give to every team in the league. The second is just wrong. They'll be incredibly aggressive as they have been since they joined.

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

I didn't even look at 2015.

The OP has everything you need. The past two pages counters the argument to P's point about it being "pretty straight forward."

It looks like you guys didn't read anything or just read a selective post.

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

I'm sorry - what is this 10mil threshold? They signed 3 of the highest paid players in free agency. That is the definition of aggressive.

I didn't see anywhere that you "disproved" my point about the bears and I notated why you're wrong on my second post.

In free agency, talented skill positions cost > $10M APY. Other position groups like S, LB, RB, FB, G, C, etc. typically cost < $10 APY. There are always outliers but that threshold is what it is.

It can change over time though. Like, QB, ER and pass rushing interior DT which has skyrocketed the last couple years.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

I didn't even look at 2015.

The OP has everything you need. The past two pages counters the argument to P's point about it being "pretty straight forward."

It looks like you guys didn't read anything or just read a selective post.

I just looked at everything and umm.. I still don't understand how my argument about the bears team going into their 2017 rebuild wasn't wildly at a different place than where we were.

Your other statement about what the 49ers did to surround Jimmy with talent this offseason - You mentioned Pettis and Jet - two highly priced acquisitions but you forgot to mention - Richburg, Person and McGlinchey.

Like, how could you not talk about our pro-bowl caliber first round pick, out guard who's balling out and our very highly priced center.

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

You're giving me a "warning" that they might not solve all of our problems this offseason or hit on every move? Or that they won't be aggressive? The first warning you can give to every team in the league. The second is just wrong. They'll be incredibly aggressive as they have been since they joined.

Sorry, I should have clarified...warning that the FO's definition of aggressive might be different from our own. Every year we have near tops in cap space and every year, we rarely even put a dent in it even with a paid FQB (Kaepernick, Garoppolo).

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

I just looked at everything and umm.. I still don't understand how my argument about the bears team going into their 2017 rebuild wasn't wildly at a different place than where we were.

Your other statement about what the 49ers did to surround Jimmy with talent this offseason - You mentioned Pettis and Jet - two highly priced acquisitions but you forgot to mention - Richburg, Person and McGlinchey.

Like, how could you not talk about our pro-bowl caliber first round pick, out guard who's balling out and our very highly priced center.

Here's the cliff notes...see NinerGM's novel about the reality in Chicago and my thread showing that even when Pace was here, without Trubisky, they were a 3 and 5-win team (like us).

If you take Trubisky and Cohn off their roster this year, did this "head start" really mean anything in W-L's? Did they really add that much more talent than we had? Not really. If Jimmy Garoppolo and Jerick McKinnon were healthy this year, how much closer to 8-3 would we be right now? Pretty close, right? Right. Therefore it's not "pretty straight forward."

You'll never have a perfect apples to apples comparison but this one is pretty close as I listed the reasons out for you.

If you find a rebuild partner that's pretty straight forward, please feel free to post the side by side in here and list your reasoning.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

I'm sorry - what is this 10mil threshold? They signed 3 of the highest paid players in free agency. That is the definition of aggressive.

I didn't see anywhere that you "disproved" my point about the bears and I notated why you're wrong on my second post.

In free agency, talented skill positions cost > $10M APY. Other position groups like S, LB, RB, FB, G, C, etc. typically cost < $10 APY. There are always outliers but that threshold is what it is.

It can change over time though. Like, QB, ER and pass rushing interior DT which has skyrocketed the last couple years.

Firstly, i don't agree with your argument that the right way to build a team is by aggressively paying skill positions.

But, for your argument, the most expensive players in football are QB, ER, OT, CB and WR. In two offseasons, we've traded, drafted and used free agency to acquire four of those positions. We hit hard on QB, CB and OT, which doesn't always happen. We paid Pierre I think the 3rd highest contract for WRs in 2017 and he was on pace to have the best year with sh** we play before screwing up his neck. He was always a pretty durable player but hey - shh happens.


Once again, we've been aggressive and in my opinion, your argument isn't valid.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

I just looked at everything and umm.. I still don't understand how my argument about the bears team going into their 2017 rebuild wasn't wildly at a different place than where we were.

Your other statement about what the 49ers did to surround Jimmy with talent this offseason - You mentioned Pettis and Jet - two highly priced acquisitions but you forgot to mention - Richburg, Person and McGlinchey.

Like, how could you not talk about our pro-bowl caliber first round pick, out guard who's balling out and our very highly priced center.

Here's the cliff notes...see NinerGM's novel about the reality in Chicago and my thread showing that even when Pace was here, without Trubisky, they were a 3 and 5-win team (like us).

If you take Trubisky and Cohn off their roster this year, did this "head start" really mean anything in W-L's? Did they really add that much more talent than we had? Not really. If Jimmy Garoppolo and Jerick McKinnon were healthy this year, how much closer to 8-3 would we be right now? Pretty close, right? Right. Therefore it's not "pretty straight forward."

You'll never have a perfect apples to apples comparison but this one is pretty close as I listed the reasons out for you.

If you find a rebuild partner that's pretty straight forward, please feel free to post the side by side in here and list your reasoning.

Um. I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Yeah, they're not identical. One of the reasons is that their drafts and free agencies beforehand obviously have had a big impact on how their team works today. But of course, if you don't have a good QB and a starting RB, it's not usually gonna matter.. you're probably gonna stink (usually at least).

That doesn't take away from them having more talent than us to begin with. They did. And that matters if you want to compare the two teams.

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

Firstly, i don't agree with your argument that the right way to build a team is by aggressively paying skill positions.

I don't know what to tell you...you have completely missed the boat on the purpose of this thread and I'm done trying to walk you through it.

Start your own thread and outline how aggressive this FO has been.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

I just looked at everything and umm.. I still don't understand how my argument about the bears team going into their 2017 rebuild wasn't wildly at a different place than where we were.

Your other statement about what the 49ers did to surround Jimmy with talent this offseason - You mentioned Pettis and Jet - two highly priced acquisitions but you forgot to mention - Richburg, Person and McGlinchey.

Like, how could you not talk about our pro-bowl caliber first round pick, out guard who's balling out and our very highly priced center.

Here's the cliff notes...see NinerGM's novel about the reality in Chicago and my thread showing that even when Pace was here, without Trubisky, they were a 3 and 5-win team (like us).

If you take Trubisky and Cohn off their roster this year, did this "head start" really mean anything in W-L's? Did they really add that much more talent than we had? Not really. If Jimmy Garoppolo and Jerick McKinnon were healthy this year, how much closer to 8-3 would we be right now? Pretty close, right? Right. Therefore it's not "pretty straight forward."

You'll never have a perfect apples to apples comparison but this one is pretty close as I listed the reasons out for you.

If you find a rebuild partner that's pretty straight forward, please feel free to post the side by side in here and list your reasoning.

Which "novel", can you quote it?

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

Firstly, i don't agree with your argument that the right way to build a team is by aggressively paying skill positions.

But, for your argument, the most expensive players in football are QB, ER, OT, CB and WR. In two offseasons, we've traded, drafted and used free agency to acquire four of those positions. We hit hard on QB, CB and OT, which doesn't always happen. We paid Pierre I think the 3rd highest contract for WRs in 2017 and he was on pace to have the best year with sh** we play before screwing up his neck. He was always a pretty durable player but hey - shh happens.


Once again, we've been aggressive and in my opinion, your argument isn't valid.

I think you both are right, we have been pretty aggressive however I would say that despite That we have had a lot of misses where we were in it and I thought we would pull the trigger especially offering a little more for Kahlil Mack.

The timing of the rebuilds is off however both teams got their franchise quarterback last year so I can see the point there, however the Bears had a much bigger Headstart and they were way more aggressive in free agency over the past couple of years.

Either way I think we would be eight wins and three losses after this weekend with Jimmy Garoppolo so next year we have a lot to look forward to especially if we add any other pieces which we have to....even if it's not what we all wanted. Both teams are rebuilding and I believe next year the Niners take a humongous step forward due to health alone