Chicago Bears vs. San Francisco 49ers Rebuilding Plan

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:
I'm sorry - what is this 10mil threshold? They signed 3 of the highest paid players in free agency. That is the definition of aggressive.

I didn't see anywhere that you "disproved" my point about the bears and I notated why you're wrong on my second post.

In free agency, talented skill positions cost > $10M APY. Other position groups like S, LB, RB, FB, G, C, etc. typically cost < $10 APY. There are always outliers but that threshold is what it is.

It can change over time though. Like, QB, ER and pass rushing interior DT which has skyrocketed the last couple years.

The part of Phoenix's post that's completely straightforward to me:

I'm sorry, I don't think you'll find a single credible person who agrees with your view of rebuilding.

Your response to this, below - in particular, the bolded & underlined..."it's moot"...seriously? So in your view, a team that's rebuilding only starts its rebuild the moment it gets its FQB? Really? If you truly think this, we're nowhere near being on the same page:

No, you can build for 20 years but until you get your QB, esp. in this era, it's moot. We think we got ours. They think they got theirs and it happened to be in the same year...hence the overall comparison vs. just a GM change.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

Firstly, i don't agree with your argument that the right way to build a team is by aggressively paying skill positions.

I don't know what to tell you...you have completely missed the boat on the purpose of this thread and I'm done trying to walk you through it.

Start your own thread and outline how aggressive this FO has been.

Yeah, I read the whole thread. Still believe everything I wrote was valid and on track with your arguments..

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

I'm sorry - what is this 10mil threshold? They signed 3 of the highest paid players in free agency. That is the definition of aggressive.

I didn't see anywhere that you "disproved" my point about the bears and I notated why you're wrong on my second post.

In free agency, talented skill positions cost > $10M APY. Other position groups like S, LB, RB, FB, G, C, etc. typically cost < $10 APY. There are always outliers but that threshold is what it is.

It can change over time though. Like, QB, ER and pass rushing interior DT which has skyrocketed the last couple years.

The part of Phoenix's post that's completely straightforward to me:

I'm sorry, I don't think you'll find a single credible person who agrees with your view of rebuilding.

Your response to this, below - in particular, the bolded & underlined..."it's moot"...seriously? So in your view, a team that's rebuilding only starts its rebuild the moment it gets its FQB? Really? If you truly think this, we're nowhere near being on the same page:

No, you can build for 20 years but until you get your QB, esp. in this era, it's moot. We think we got ours. They think they got theirs and it happened to be in the same year...hence the overall comparison vs. just a GM change.

Agreed. Your Seattle example was perfect. The 49ers from 2011-2013 as well.. we finally had solid-great Qb play but that roster was built over the 5+ years before that happened

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

Yeah, I read the whole thread. Still believe everything I wrote was valid and on track with your arguments..

You did make terrific points, and I hope by the end of next year we will be in the playoffs and not even worried about this s**t

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:
Yeah, I read the whole thread. Still believe everything I wrote was valid and on track with your arguments..

You did make terrific points, and I hope by the end of next year we will be in the playoffs and not even worried about this s**t

Agreed

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

Yeah, I read the whole thread. Still believe everything I wrote was valid and on track with your arguments..

You did make terrific points, and I hope by the end of next year we will be in the playoffs and not even worried about this s**t

Agreed

Agreed! Man, this offseason. They've gotta go all in. It's a critica one.

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:
Yeah, I read the whole thread. Still believe everything I wrote was valid and on track with your arguments..

+ Show all quotes
You did make terrific points, and I hope by the end of next year we will be in the playoffs and not even worried about this s**t

Agreed

Agreed! Man, this offseason. They've gotta go all in. It's a critica one.

Looking forward to seeing what pieces they add via the draft, FA & any trades. Also, looking forward to a healthy Garoppolo, McKinnon, R.Foster, and others.

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

Yeah, I read the whole thread. Still believe everything I wrote was valid and on track with your arguments..

You did make terrific points, and I hope by the end of next year we will be in the playoffs and not even worried about this s**t

+ Show all quotes
Agreed

Agreed! Man, this offseason. They've gotta go all in. It's a critica one.

Looking forward to seeing what pieces they add via the draft, FA & any trades. Also, looking forward to a healthy Garoppolo, McKinnon, R.Foster, and others.

Haha will we ever see a healthy Foster? God I hope he returns back to form and stays healthy - having a PBer in the middle would be huge alongside Warner, especially in today's nfl with them both being so solid in coverage.

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

I'm sorry - what is this 10mil threshold? They signed 3 of the highest paid players in free agency. That is the definition of aggressive.

I didn't see anywhere that you "disproved" my point about the bears and I notated why you're wrong on my second post.

+ Show all quotes
In free agency, talented skill positions cost > $10M APY. Other position groups like S, LB, RB, FB, G, C, etc. typically cost < $10 APY. There are always outliers but that threshold is what it is.

It can change over time though. Like, QB, ER and pass rushing interior DT which has skyrocketed the last couple years.

The part of Phoenix's post that's completely straightforward to me:

I'm sorry, I don't think you'll find a single credible person who agrees with your view of rebuilding.

Your response to this, below - in particular, the bolded & underlined..."it's moot"...seriously? So in your view, a team that's rebuilding only starts its rebuild the moment it gets its FQB? Really? If you truly think this, we're nowhere near being on the same page:

No, you can build for 20 years but until you get your QB, esp. in this era, it's moot. We think we got ours. They think they got theirs and it happened to be in the same year...hence the overall comparison vs. just a GM change.

Agreed. Your Seattle example was perfect. The 49ers from 2011-2013 as well.. we finally had solid-great Qb play but that roster was built over the 5+ years before that happened

Except Seattle got their FQB. You can build for 7 straight years but this is a QB driven league. Gone are the days when you win a Superbowl with Trent Dilfer.

You both are making my very point.

Yes, Pace started in 2015 and has been aggressive in free agency and hit on his drafts well and a few of them even had an extra year or two to develop. Yet, did it matter? 3 and 5 wins without a FQB.

Defining a rebuild at any stage is moot until you drop in your FQB. We got ours at the same time they got theirs which is why you both believe we'd have a similar record had JG been healthy DESPITE Pace getting a 2 year "head start."

And that was just one aspect of the comparisons in rebuilds together.

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Looking forward to seeing what pieces they add via the draft, FA & any trades. Also, looking forward to a healthy Garoppolo, McKinnon, R.Foster, and others.

Bingo...this thread wasn't meant to end here but be used as a tracker between the two regimes...like when the Eagles and Rams got their FQB's in the same year.

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

Yeah, I read the whole thread. Still believe everything I wrote was valid and on track with your arguments..

You did make terrific points, and I hope by the end of next year we will be in the playoffs and not even worried about this s**t

Agreed

+ Show all quotes
Agreed! Man, this offseason. They've gotta go all in. It's a critica one.

Looking forward to seeing what pieces they add via the draft, FA & any trades. Also, looking forward to a healthy Garoppolo, McKinnon, R.Foster, and others.

Haha will we ever see a healthy Foster? God I hope he returns back to form and stays healthy - having a PBer in the middle would be huge alongside Warner, especially in today's nfl with them both being so solid in coverage.

They better get some edge rusher like graham from Philly or even Pierre Paul or just one of the damn top edge rusher's in free agency because I know they won't trade for one we don't have a lot of picks in this draft. I feel we should trade for one if we have to anyways it would be worth it. Then with our first picj another Pass rusher. With the injury history the Niners have we have to assume one of them would be injured in anyway.

I think since over the last two years the front office keeps getting asked what we are going to do to address the pass rush and free agency and why we keep missing out even though they say we are being aggressive I think this year they can't hear that again for the third year straight. Therefore they are going All in I believe. They have to with that much money

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

Which "novel", can you quote it?

Sure...Post #155

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

I'm sorry - what is this 10mil threshold? They signed 3 of the highest paid players in free agency. That is the definition of aggressive.

I didn't see anywhere that you "disproved" my point about the bears and I notated why you're wrong on my second post.

In free agency, talented skill positions cost > $10M APY. Other position groups like S, LB, RB, FB, G, C, etc. typically cost < $10 APY. There are always outliers but that threshold is what it is.

It can change over time though. Like, QB, ER and pass rushing interior DT which has skyrocketed the last couple years.

+ Show all quotes
The part of Phoenix's post that's completely straightforward to me:

I'm sorry, I don't think you'll find a single credible person who agrees with your view of rebuilding.

Your response to this, below - in particular, the bolded & underlined..."it's moot"...seriously? So in your view, a team that's rebuilding only starts its rebuild the moment it gets its FQB? Really? If you truly think this, we're nowhere near being on the same page:

No, you can build for 20 years but until you get your QB, esp. in this era, it's moot. We think we got ours. They think they got theirs and it happened to be in the same year...hence the overall comparison vs. just a GM change.

Agreed. Your Seattle example was perfect. The 49ers from 2011-2013 as well.. we finally had solid-great Qb play but that roster was built over the 5+ years before that happened

Except Seattle got their FQB. You can build for 7 straight years but this is a QB driven league. Gone are the days when you win a Superbowl with Trent Dilfer.

You both are making my very point.

Yes, Pace started in 2015 and has been aggressive in free agency and hit on his drafts well and a few of them even had an extra year or two to develop. Yet, did it matter? 3 and 5 wins without a FQB.

Defining a rebuild at any stage is moot until you drop in your FQB. We got ours at the same time they got theirs which is why you both believe we'd have a similar record had JG been healthy DESPITE Pace getting a 2 year "head start."

And that was just one aspect of the comparisons in rebuilds together.

I'm sorry. I don't agree that we're making you're point. A great franchise does great things with a great QB. Absolutely true.

BUT the rest of the talent is still incredibly important. To disregard that doesn't make any sense to me honestly. You seem to agree as well hence the entire point of this article.

But the rebuild doesn't start when you get a franchise QB, you hope you have the right team in place so that the QB can win when you get him and afterwards.

Pace has been GM for 4 years in order to field the team you see today. When we start next year, we will begin the 3rd year of John Lynch & Shannys rebuild.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Looking forward to seeing what pieces they add via the draft, FA & any trades. Also, looking forward to a healthy Garoppolo, McKinnon, R.Foster, and others.

Bingo...this thread wasn't meant to end here but be used as a tracker between the two regimes...like when the Eagles and Rams got their FQB's in the same year.

I like that at least. I think it's a good franchise to track and compare

Originally posted by Wewillwin:

I'm sorry. I don't agree that we're making you're point. A great franchise does great things with a great QB. Absolutely true.

BUT the rest of the talent is still incredibly important. To disregard that doesn't make any sense to me honestly. You seem to agree as well hence the entire point of this article.

But the rebuild doesn't start when you get a franchise QB, you hope you have the right team in place so that the QB can win when you get him and afterwards.

Pace has been GM for 4 years in order to field the team you see today. When we start next year, we will begin the 3rd year of John Lynch & Shannys rebuild.

OK...so where was all the rest of their talent when they won 5 and 3 games in Pace's first two years and drafted #3 and traded with us at #2 in 2017?

Was our talent suddenly (1-10) epic when we won 5 straight?

Nobody is saying the other talent is irrelevant.

I'm saying it was irrelevant in this comparison because the two extra years Pace got resulted in 5 and 3 wins (same as us with Baalke at the helmet --- LOL).

P and I just defined when a rebuild starts differently (and he's not wrong either). Thl defined it when both the GM and HC changed in Buffalo. You probably have your own definition.