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Javon Kinlaw is a Jet!-Pick #14, 2020 NFL Draft.

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Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by 49ers808:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
it's because Bosa gave us what a moster DL should look like and buckner is not it.

Buckner is good, but i expected him to have a better year than he had with all the help at DL

Buckner was a major reason for Bosas success and helped the rest of the dline eating majority of the double teams
i agree he did take on some double teams, but that was more towards the begining of the season.

Well you don't earn All Pro honors and get voted into the top 100 players by your peers for things you didn't do or for only doing things at the start of a season. Everything being said about Kinlaw is great and all, but dude hasn't even put pads on yet lol. Buckner is/was by far the superior proven player in this league until proven otherwise.
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Thats one of the many reasons I hate the cap, you end up losing great players, and it really forces teams to draft well every year. Going to miss Buckster, but I'm totally excited to see if Kinlaw can make Defensive rookie of the year.

It's also one of the main reasons predictions for a dynasty or several SBs is a laugh. Every fan base does this when their team has a good year as if they are going to be able to keep the team together. With the average NFL career at 3.3 years you in effect turn over your roster that often. With the exception of a handful of key players the rest are always coming and going and some of the guys that go are pretty good. As we saw with Buckner, even key players get traded or cut to make room under the cap. Team chemistry is always changing and injuries make it even harder to predict long runs of success. It's not like it was before the cap and free agency.

Agree to a good portion, but Dynasties are still possible in the Salary Cap era. How the Pats did it is amazing. Cheating is a factor in how they did it. But overall, they used the cap to their advantage, and I think ShanaLynch can use it to their advantage too. We shall see.
Originally posted by 49ers808:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by 49ers808:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
it's because Bosa gave us what a moster DL should look like and buckner is not it.

Buckner is good, but i expected him to have a better year than he had with all the help at DL

Buckner was a major reason for Bosas success and helped the rest of the dline eating majority of the double teams
i agree he did take on some double teams, but that was more towards the begining of the season.

Well you don't earn All Pro honors and get voted into the top 100 players by your peers for things you didn't do or for only doing things at the start of a season. Everything being said about Kinlaw is great and all, but dude hasn't even put pads on yet lol. Buckner is/was by far the superior proven player in this league until proven otherwise.
top 100 is a popularity contest a long with all of the end of the year awards.

I love some buck, but's he's not a game changer. the guys we have already can fill the role easily
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Amazing how quick fans are to throw a player under the bus. Two seasons ago we were calling Buckner our best player. Now I see some saying Kinlaw will be a big upgrade over Buckner even though he hasn't played a game yet. He may end up being better but let's not forget how good Buckner was for this team.
it's because Bosa gave us what a moster DL should look like and buckner is not it.

Buckner is good, but i expected him to have a better year than he had with all the help at DL

I agree with 49AllTheTime. Buck was a very good player that was overhyped on this board. He made the pro bowl first team once. Never made all-pro 1st team. Cracked the NFL Top 100 for the first time this year (56). Again, very good player, but not a big dollar cornerstone of the defense, IMO.
Looks like Eric Branch wants to be like Grant Cohn. Must've realized he wasn't gonna make it being a proper beat guy.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I agree with 49AllTheTime. Buck was a very good player that was overhyped on this board. He made the pro bowl first team once. Never made all-pro 1st team. Cracked the NFL Top 100 for the first time this year (56). Again, very good player, but not a big dollar cornerstone of the defense, IMO.

Buckner was the best and most refined and versatile DL player for years. He missed like one or two games total when the 49ers sucked, while being extremely consistent and has played in different spots on both 4-3 and 3-4 with very little drop off, without whining about it. Even though hes really a prototypical 3-4 DE

Unlike Armstead and Ward who were always injured or unspectacular until the 49ers got a good team, Buckner was always a star.

If it were not for Bosa's amazing year, he'd be a top player on the DL as well last year.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I agree with 49AllTheTime. Buck was a very good player that was overhyped on this board. He made the pro bowl first team once. Never made all-pro 1st team. Cracked the NFL Top 100 for the first time this year (56). Again, very good player, but not a big dollar cornerstone of the defense, IMO.

He wasn't overhyped. Between 2016-2018, he was the only star on that D-line, thus, getting attention. However, all pro and nfl top 100 lists are extremely biased. Don't pretend that it isn't. Winning teams always get shine and the bad teams always get disrespect. Didn't Jimmy f**king Ward make the NFL top 100? That tells you something....
Originally posted by pdizo916:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I agree with 49AllTheTime. Buck was a very good player that was overhyped on this board. He made the pro bowl first team once. Never made all-pro 1st team. Cracked the NFL Top 100 for the first time this year (56). Again, very good player, but not a big dollar cornerstone of the defense, IMO.

He wasn't overhyped. Between 2016-2018, he was the only star on that D-line, thus, getting attention. However, all pro and nfl top 100 lists are extremely biased. Don't pretend that it isn't. Winning teams always get shine and the bad teams always get disrespect. Didn't Jimmy f**king Ward make the NFL top 100? That tells you something....

I'm not taking it back until you admit Patrick Willis is better than Fred Warner....
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by pdizo916:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I agree with 49AllTheTime. Buck was a very good player that was overhyped on this board. He made the pro bowl first team once. Never made all-pro 1st team. Cracked the NFL Top 100 for the first time this year (56). Again, very good player, but not a big dollar cornerstone of the defense, IMO.

He wasn't overhyped. Between 2016-2018, he was the only star on that D-line, thus, getting attention. However, all pro and nfl top 100 lists are extremely biased. Don't pretend that it isn't. Winning teams always get shine and the bad teams always get disrespect. Didn't Jimmy f**king Ward make the NFL top 100? That tells you something....

I'm not taking it back until you admit Patrick Willis is better than Fred Warner....

yea...no.
I am a fan of Buckner's but there's been some pretty substantive analytic data to show that he was indeed overhyped by the 49ers fanbase and is being overpaid waaaaay beyond his actual value by the Colts. Read this Pro-Football Focus analysis on his trade to Indianapolis which argues that we made a great deal to swap him in exchange for the 13th overall pick that landed us Kinlaw. Their take on the pumped up nature of Buckner's productivity deserves special attention:

Buckner has been a good player over the course of his four-year career with the 'Niners. He owns PFF grade ranks of 31st, 17th, 25th and ninth and has been an above-average player against the run and getting after the quarterback in the pass-rush. Key words being "above average."

Buckner isn't the elite pass-rusher many have made him out to be. In his four seasons in the NFL, Buckner has generated pressure on 10.6% of his pass-rush reps, which is a solid rate that ranks 12th among interior defensive linemen. But more than 27% of those pressures were from a cleanup or unblocked, which isn't nearly as bad as some interior pass-rushers but isn't nearly as good as the elite guys. Donald owns the lowest rate at 12.5%, with Chris Jones the second-lowest at 15.6%.


The article goes on to explain that, contrary to the popular narrative, Defo has benefited from his surrounding talent as a pass rusher more than the surrounding talent has held him back. For since 2016, Defo has he collected the most sacks that were a cleanup/unblocked among interior pass-rushers with 16, a total which is more than half (57%) his career 28.5 sack total.

PFF then charts Defo's value added relative to the amount of his new contract by measuring his Wins Above Replacement (WAR) on the Y-axis since 2016 versus his Average Per Year (APY) salary of 21 million per on the X-axis comparing his position there against the league's interior defensive linemen. Here is what their analysis shows:



The outlier all the way on the upper right hand corner all by his lonesome is Aaron Donald who is both far more productive and higher paid than the average interior defensive lineman. Meanwhile, Defo is his own outlier all by himself on the lower right, with a salary almost as lucrative as Donald's but with production that doesn't even put him in the tier below the Ram DMVP.
[ Edited by RasSuar on Aug 14, 2020 at 9:20 PM ]

I liked Defo, he was a great representation for the 49ers, great leader and locker room guy, never had to worry about him off the field. Could count on him playing, I think he only missed 1 game in 4 years which is saying something for this team. But as far as talent he was above average at best, really good but not elite/allpro. If he was an elite talent plus all the other things great about him he'd still be here and Armstead would have been traded
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
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So not that Buckner is gone he was overhyped. lmfao Webzone at it again.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
So not that Buckner is gone he was overhyped. lmfao Webzone at it again.

I am just posting the analysis from PFF. Make up your mind for yourself. But don't pretend that the observation was produced out of thin air from here so you can just easily dismiss it as irrelevant homerism. That kind of strawmaning has no place in a good faith discussion.

Thanks.
[ Edited by RasSuar on Aug 14, 2020 at 9:55 PM ]
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
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Yah and we are just gonna forget about this!!!


Overhyped GTFOH!!!
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Yah and we are just gonna forget about this!!!


Overhyped GTFOH!!!

That chart has him 18th best...which is in line with the PFF analysis. You're not disputing the point in the article.
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