Javon Kinlaw is a Jet!-Pick #14, 2020 NFL Draft.

Originally posted by RasSuar:

Only point you're making is you think Buckner is overrated because he has some clean up sacks. I agree he does, but the point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't make up his whole game

So now you agree on this point? A few posts ago you were questioning what clean up sacks were, arguing I was wrong and had an "agenda" for saying the exact same thing you're conceding here. My, how you've had to backtrack.

but the point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't make up his whole game

No one said clean sacks made up Buckner's "whole game" as a pass rusher, so who are you arguing against here? PFF and I showed they made up 57% of his career sack total. My video breakdown showed they made up 7 out of 12 of his total sacks in 2018.

Some have more or less, then again some play more snaps than the other.

Yes, and some like Buckner have more clean up sacks than sacks they generate off their own pressure. But the elite of the elite Buckner wants to be paid like don't. And this is why we he's overhyped for the money he commanded.

You think I backtracked when I've been saying the same thing this whole time. You've been using the whole "clean up sack" stat to prove Buckner is overrated. It's like I have to repeat myself over and over with you.

I should've just saved us time and said, do clean up sacks overrate a player??

Originally posted by WestCoastForever:
Buckner is not over hyped. He is one of the best defensive linemen, who made our DL better--a load for any OL.

JK has the potential to be one of the best quickly. A super-sized LB who is able to toss OL and scoot.

No he's over hyped because he's not a 9er anymore. Where was this over hype crap when he was a 49er?? And if I'm the homer, why am I defending someone who isn't a 49er anymore??

Is Russell Wilson a top 5 QB, hell yes he is. Would I take Buckner over Kinlaw,as of right now, yes, anyone saying otherwise is homer.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by RasSuar:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Yah and we are just gonna forget about this!!!

As promised here are the Interior Defenders with the highest win-rates in 2109 when facing 2+ blockers: pic.twitter.com/03QZh3CFQP

— Neil Hornsby (@PFF_Neil) January 2, 2020

Overhyped GTFOH!!!

That chart has him 18th best...which is in line with the PFF analysis. You're not disputing the point in the article.

Lol you're looking at it wrong. Fail.

Right, that these guys will still be playing in 89 years is nothing short of amazing.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Buckner, from another list was the 9th most double teamed with 268 snaps. I mean if Buckner was doubled 268 times to Bosa only 50 times but won 30, wouldn't his rate be higher?? Pretty much what I'm getting at.

Bosa is double teamed 50 times in a single game. What are you saying.

Originally posted by WestCoastForever:

Buckner is not over hyped. He is one of the best defensive linemen, who made our DL better--a load for any OL.

JK has the potential to be one of the best quickly. A super-sized LB who is able to toss OL and scoot.

Definitely not a LB but I enjoy your enthusiasm

Is his nickname gonna be Big Nasty?

Originally posted by ninerfan4life:

Is his nickname gonna be Big Nasty?

Let's leave the nicknames to moon pal

Originally posted by RasSuar:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Homer, far from it.

Nah, you sound like a Buckner homer.

Or maybe you're just a bad troll who reaching for an argument...

How can an HOFer mod be a troll? Kolohe is a good dude, just wrong on Buckner...

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by RasSuar:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Homer, far from it.

Nah, you sound like a Buckner homer.

Or maybe you're just a bad troll who reaching for an argument...

How can an HOFer mod be a troll? Kolohe is a good dude, just wrong on Buckner...

I can dig that!!!

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by WestCoastForever:

Buckner is not over hyped. He is one of the best defensive linemen, who made our DL better--a load for any OL.

JK has the potential to be one of the best quickly. A super-sized LB who is able to toss OL and scoot.

No he's over hyped because he's not a 9er anymore. Where was this over hype crap when he was a 49er?? And if I'm the homer, why am I defending someone who isn't a 49er anymore??

Is Russell Wilson a top 5 QB, hell yes he is. Would I take Buckner over Kinlaw,as of right now, yes, anyone saying otherwise is homer.

Here's the thing about Buckner. 1. He was always available. 2. His consistency with his rush (he loves his double swipe move) 3. He understood how to diagnose plays

Those 3 things are what makes Buckner an elite player right now and Kinlaw has a long way to go to become the force Buckner is.

Having said that, Kinlaw has a chance to become the better player because he fits this defense a little better with the ability to stop the run in the 1-3 gaps and his quicker first step. I don't expect Kinlaw to become the pass rusher Buckner is but his bull rush is will hopefully make Bosa and the rest of our passrush have an easier time getting sacks. I think Kinlaw will affect more plays that he doesn't get to the ballcarrier than Buckner when he harnesses his craft.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by WestCoastForever:
Buckner is not over hyped. He is one of the best defensive linemen, who made our DL better--a load for any OL.

JK has the potential to be one of the best quickly. A super-sized LB who is able to toss OL and scoot.

No he's over hyped because he's not a 9er anymore. Where was this over hype crap when he was a 49er?? And if I'm the homer, why am I defending someone who isn't a 49er anymore??

Is Russell Wilson a top 5 QB, hell yes he is. Would I take Buckner over Kinlaw,as of right now, yes, anyone saying otherwise is homer.

Here's the thing about Buckner. 1. He was always available. 2. His consistency with his rush (he loves his double swipe move) 3. He understood how to diagnose plays

Those 3 things are what makes Buckner an elite player right now and Kinlaw has a long way to go to become the force Buckner is.

Having said that, Kinlaw has a chance to become the better player because he fits this defense a little better with the ability to stop the run in the 1-3 gaps and his quicker first step. I don't expect Kinlaw to become the pass rusher Buckner is but his bull rush is will hopefully make Bosa and the rest of our passrush have an easier time getting sacks. I think Kinlaw will affect more plays that he doesn't get to the ballcarrier than Buckner when he harnesses his craft.

Agreed on everything. Buck will be missed, but I think, as Lynch said, they traded Buck for 1. they needed the room to sign Kittle and others, and 2. he's too light for our scheme to be a 3T, that's why we took Kinlaw, he's massive, and shouldn't get pushed around that easy.

It's not just that Defo was too light; He was drafted to be play head up and read and react. He isn't a natural penetrator. It's not easy uncoiling and exploding a 6-7 frame while preserving pad level in the trenches.

The name of the game is penetration in this scheme, and if they're not penetrating, they're likely taking on defenders. Defo struggled at times with both. That's the thing the 49ers get with Kinlaw: a natural penetrator with behemoth size to hold up when he takes on bodies.

Defo was great for us. No need to s**t on him. Let's hope Kinlaw can be as good as he was and better.

Originally posted by Heroism:
It's not just that Defo was too light; He was drafted to be play head up and read and react. He isn't a natural penetrator. It's not easy uncoiling and exploding a 6-7 frame while preserving pad level in the trenches.

The name of the game is penetration in this scheme, and if they're not penetrating, they're likely taking on defenders. Defo struggled at times with both. That's the thing the 49ers get with Kinlaw: a natural penetrator with behemoth size to hold up when he takes on bodies.

Defo was great for us. No need to s**t on him. Let's hope Kinlaw can be as good as he was and better.

Agreed. I understand where Kolohe is coming from. Fans do s**t on former players sometimes and Defo is one of those players that doesn't deserve that. He wasn't let go for his lack of production or how good of a teammate he was. It just came down to money.

At the same time I've seen it go both ways. I notice that people have a bias towards former players compared to rookies. A lot of posters are s**tting on our receiving core right now saying there's no chance we will be better than last year and they may be right but they also can be very wrong... which I think they will be given the multiple talented players we should have compared to last season.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by WestCoastForever:
Buckner is not over hyped. He is one of the best defensive linemen, who made our DL better--a load for any OL.

JK has the potential to be one of the best quickly. A super-sized LB who is able to toss OL and scoot.

No he's over hyped because he's not a 9er anymore. Where was this over hype crap when he was a 49er?? And if I'm the homer, why am I defending someone who isn't a 49er anymore??

Is Russell Wilson a top 5 QB, hell yes he is. Would I take Buckner over Kinlaw,as of right now, yes, anyone saying otherwise is homer.

Here's the thing about Buckner. 1. He was always available. 2. His consistency with his rush (he loves his double swipe move) 3. He understood how to diagnose plays

Those 3 things are what makes Buckner an elite player right now and Kinlaw has a long way to go to become the force Buckner is.

Having said that, Kinlaw has a chance to become the better player because he fits this defense a little better with the ability to stop the run in the 1-3 gaps and his quicker first step. I don't expect Kinlaw to become the pass rusher Buckner is but his bull rush is will hopefully make Bosa and the rest of our passrush have an easier time getting sacks. I think Kinlaw will affect more plays that he doesn't get to the ballcarrier than Buckner when he harnesses his craft.

Personally I think Kinlaw will become a Pro Bowl player, I'm thinking or hoping Chris Jones 2.0 or better. I just don't think it will be in his first year, then again Kocurek is a pretty solid coach I just might prove me wrong.

I hope they start giving him all the first team reps in camp.