Javon Kinlaw is a Jet!-Pick #14, 2020 NFL Draft.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

basically what I'm doing every time I'm reading your post in this thread

It's all good. You're a solid debater but there's often a disconnect on your interpretations of others points it seems. No biggie.

NC with the slight jab.

Originally posted by NCommand:
It's all good. You're a solid debater but there's often a disconnect on your interpretations of others points it seems. No biggie.

No disconnect when you literally said "DTs have zero impact on the pass rush" and in the same breath talk about how important pass-pro IOL are

Can't have your cake and eat it too....you can say we need IOL help and not have to s**t on the DT position and Kin just because he wasn't your guy. That's all I'm saying.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

It's all good. You're a solid debater but there's often a disconnect on your interpretations of others points it seems. No biggie.

No disconnect when you literally said "DTs have zero impact on the pass rush" and in the same breath talk about how important pass-pro IOL are

Can't have your cake and eat it too....you can say we need IOL help and not have to s**t on the DT position and Kin just because he wasn't your guy. That's all I'm saying.

And what exactly did you think I meant by that comment: "DTs have zero impact on the pass rush"

Originally posted by NCommand:
And what exactly did you think I meant by that comment: "DTs have zero impact on the pass rush"

I mean the comment is pretty self explanatory, no? It's not like you haven't hidden your agenda with how you feel about IDL vs IOL lol.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

And what exactly did you think I meant by that comment: "DTs have zero impact on the pass rush"

I mean the comment is pretty self explanatory, no? It's not like you haven't hidden your agenda with how you feel about IDL vs IOL lol.

Exactly. Black and white. I've said it a gazillion times, this is a passing league. Only a handful of DT's are really good and consistent pass rushers. Therefore, the other 95% are just run defenders with an occasional pressure on athleticism alone. Dime a dozen. Therefore, you don't spend a top 15 pick on a run defending DT unless you feel he's going to be a great pass rusher to combat the passing league. But if you think he'll be special in the pass rush department, hell yeah.

Originally posted by NCommand:

you don't spend a top 15 pick on a run defending DT unless you feel he's going to be a great pass rusher to combat the passing league. But if you think he'll be special in the pass rush department, hell yeah.

This is precisely why I didn't want to draft an IDL. It's really hard for interior DL to turn into great pass rushers. There are so many intrinsic obstacles to overcome for interior players. It's no coincidence that all but a few of the NFL sack leaders--yearly and all-time--are edge rushers.

That said, Javon Kinlaw has all of the tools--every single one--to be an elite interior pass rusher. Will he get there? We shall see.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NCommand:

you don't spend a top 15 pick on a run defending DT unless you feel he's going to be a great pass rusher to combat the passing league. But if you think he'll be special in the pass rush department, hell yeah.

This is precisely why I didn't want to draft an IDL. It's really hard for interior DL to turn into great pass rushers. There are so many intrinsic obstacles to overcome for interior players. It's no coincidence that all but a few of the NFL sack leaders--yearly and all-time--are edge rushers.

That said, Javon Kinlaw has all of the tools--every single one--to be an elite interior pass rusher. Will he get there? We shall see.

Most definitely.

And TBF, we have seen some pressures with a few nice moves while rushing with a plan. These next final weeks will help tell us a lot on his trajectory in the pass rush department and I hope they give him maximum snaps to keep working on it.

It's definitely an area where we need to get better.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Exactly. Black and white. I've said it a gazillion times, this is a passing league. Only a handful of DT's are really good and consistent pass rushers. Therefore, the other 95% are just run defenders with an occasional pressure on athleticism alone. Dime a dozen. Therefore, you don't spend a top 15 pick on a run defending DT unless you feel he's going to be a great pass rusher to combat the passing league. But if you think he'll be special in the pass rush department, hell yeah.

Black and white my ass lol. Those are YOUR words. You've talked down the DT position over and over all while propping up IOL (and PP)...if you don't see the oxymoron in that, then I don't know what to tell ya.

And what the hell do you think SF is expected from Kin? No s**t, he was drafted to be a pass rushing DT. You keep throwing this narrative out there, that he's just a run stuffing DT which clearly shows you didn't watch in college.

He was regarded as a passing rushing DT first (even though a bit raw technique wise) his run defending grades were worse then his pass rush grades for a reason.

Patience grasshopper. Kid is gonna be good all the tools are there. The coaching staff is there. The talent is there around him (when healthy).

FWIW I'm all for getting some OL help this off season

Yeah I don't get where the thought comes from that Kinlaw was a run stuffing DL coming out. I specifically remember everyone "in the know" pointing out we'd be interested in him because of his penetrating style versus Brown who's more the traditional run stuffing/NT style of interior DL.

Originally posted by illinois9er:

Yeah I don't get where the thought comes from that Kinlaw was a run stuffing DL coming out. I specifically remember everyone "in the know" pointing out we'd be interested in him because of his penetrating style versus Brown who's more the traditional run stuffing/NT style of interior DL.

Literally one person is throwing that claim out there lol.

It was actually more of a negative than a positive (his run defense) coming out of SC....he's improved there which is a positive.

Chris Jones 2.0

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Literally one person is throwing that claim out there lol.

It was actually more of a negative than a positive (his run defense) coming out of SC....he's improved there which is a positive.

Chris Jones 2.0

Yep now that you say that I do recall hearing that his long build could be an issue for his run defense. He seems to have worked on that a lot because he sheds blocks pretty well from what I've seen.

He's a rookie - give him some time, folks.

Originally posted by illinois9er:

Yep now that you say that I do recall hearing that his long build could be an issue for his run defense. He seems to have worked on that a lot because he sheds blocks pretty well from what I've seen.

Yeah I just was realistic with the pick overall. I knew he wasn't gonna be a pro-bowler yr 1...skill set is monstrous though.

Gonna take a min to get everything where it needs to be. Not sure why people can't have a little patience?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Exactly. Black and white. I've said it a gazillion times, this is a passing league. Only a handful of DT's are really good and consistent pass rushers. Therefore, the other 95% are just run defenders with an occasional pressure on athleticism alone. Dime a dozen. Therefore, you don't spend a top 15 pick on a run defending DT unless you feel he's going to be a great pass rusher to combat the passing league. But if you think he'll be special in the pass rush department, hell yeah.

Black and white my ass lol. Those are YOUR words. You've talked down the DT position over and over all while propping up IOL (and PP)...if you don't see the oxymoron in that, then I don't know what to tell ya.

And what the hell do you think SF is expected from Kin? No s**t, he was drafted to be a pass rushing DT. You keep throwing this narrative out there, that he's just a run stuffing DT which clearly shows you didn't watch in college.

He was regarded as a passing rushing DT first (even though a bit raw technique wise) his run defending grades were worse then his pass rush grades for a reason.

Patience grasshopper. Kid is gonna be good all the tools are there. The coaching staff is there. The talent is there around him (when healthy).

FWIW I'm all for getting some OL help this off season

Hey, I can only state my opinion like above. I can't control how you interpret stuff. Even when I try you don't seem to get it. Even when reinforced over and over, you don't get it.

He was NOT regarded as a pass rush DT at all. He was a quality H-W-S marvel run defender with extremely raw pass rush ability who relied almost exclusively on the bull rush who, like with Solomon Thomas, the coaching staff hoped they could coach into him. Saleh wanted a bigger run defender over Buckner. Like with Kyle and run blocking, Saleh wants run defenders first and foremost. Looooooong track record of that. Kinlaw is no different.

FTR, I know you've always been on board with beefing up the OL esp. with young developing talent. All good there. We really only differ in the prioritization there, quantity and what resources to spend there.

Originally posted by illinois9er:

Yeah I don't get where the thought comes from that Kinlaw was a run stuffing DL coming out. I specifically remember everyone "in the know" pointing out we'd be interested in him because of his penetrating style versus Brown who's more the traditional run stuffing/NT style of interior DL.

His game is identical to college. Already an above average run defender, excellent eyes in the backfield, feel for screens and bull rusher in pass rush.