Javon Kinlaw is a Jet!-Pick #14, 2020 NFL Draft.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Here's the problem with this take- Kinlaw was known as a pass rusher coming out. A raw player with elite physical traits. It's one year from a player that was said to be raw. Was Quinnen Williams a run defender after year 1? You can go ahead and compare Q. Williams year 1 to Kinlaw's year 1. To hear some of you tell it, the Jets should've never drafted him because of his rookie season.

What we have is a player with great tools working under a coach that has gotten the most out of his player (Kocurek). With that said, based on the chart provided, people outta lay off of AA. I doubt they are going to do that because none of this is about actual information. Just a vendetta

Looking forward to what Kinlaw shows in year 2. I need a rookie to flash and show why they were drafted in the 1st. Kinlaw has given us those moments. Solomon Thomas by comparison, did not.

Also, there is NO ONE who saw what Mike McGlinchey produced in 2020 coming. Not a single person.

Disagree here, there were a few but it was based on personal hope not gut instinct. Those few employ the same school of thought as the anti AA crowd. They either didn't like the prospect or liked and wanted a different prospect and didn't get their wish and now root against their own guy.

We are seeing this with Kinlaw too unfortunately.

MM was adequate in 2018 and 2019. What reason would someone have to think he would regress this way in year 3?

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Here's the problem with this take- Kinlaw was known as a pass rusher coming out. A raw player with elite physical traits. It's one year from a player that was said to be raw. Was Quinnen Williams a run defender after year 1? You can go ahead and compare Q. Williams year 1 to Kinlaw's year 1. To hear some of you tell it, the Jets should've never drafted him because of his rookie season.

What we have is a player with great tools working under a coach that has gotten the most out of his player (Kocurek). With that said, based on the chart provided, people outta lay off of AA. I doubt they are going to do that because none of this is about actual information. Just a vendetta

Looking forward to what Kinlaw shows in year 2. I need a rookie to flash and show why they were drafted in the 1st. Kinlaw has given us those moments. Solomon Thomas by comparison, did not.

Also, there is NO ONE who saw what Mike McGlinchey produced in 2020 coming. Not a single person.

Disagree here, there were a few but it was based on personal hope not gut instinct. Those few employ the same school of thought as the anti AA crowd. They either didn't like the prospect or liked and wanted a different prospect and didn't get their wish and now root against their own guy.

We are seeing this with Kinlaw too unfortunately.

MM was adequate in 2018 and 2019. What reason would someone have to think he would regress this way in year 3?

Hope, pure hope because haters gonna hate.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Although he played offense, Bob St. Clair.

He used to eat raw meat. He once freaked out a rookie by eating raw liver in front of him. I heard him say during an interview that he used to eat dove hearts. He would have been a sensation on the internet in this era. Can you imagine pictures of him with blood running down his chin as he bites into a piece of raw meat. Post it in front of the opposing team locker room.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Although he played offense, Bob St. Clair.

He used to eat raw meat. He once freaked out a rookie by eating raw liver in front of him. I heard him say during an interview that he used to eat dove hearts. He would have been a sensation on the internet in this era. Can you imagine pictures of him with blood running down his chin as he bites into a piece of raw meat. Post it in front of the opposing team locker room.

Yup. Loved the profile on him in the history of 49ers video.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Although he played offense, Bob St. Clair.

He used to eat raw meat. He once freaked out a rookie by eating raw liver in front of him. I heard him say during an interview that he used to eat dove hearts. He would have been a sensation on the internet in this era. Can you imagine pictures of him with blood running down his chin as he bites into a piece of raw meat. Post it in front of the opposing team locker room.

Bunch of snowflakes would cry and complain in here.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

This. Quinnen Williams was inconsistent at best as a rookie and people were already declaring him a bust. This year he was pretty much unstoppable despite a near absence of talent on the edges for the Jets. He looks like a future Top 3 DT in football. Similarly you have people here already trying to put a "cap" on what Kinlaw is capable of when anyone who watched college football knew that he was considerably raw coming in.

Keep in mind Q was drafted #3 overall but was constantly constantly mocked at #1 and #2 as well. So I think the expectation on him was way higher than Kinlaw. Production by Bosa probably also skewed the view of fans. But I see your point.

Originally posted by martysofresh:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

This. Quinnen Williams was inconsistent at best as a rookie and people were already declaring him a bust. This year he was pretty much unstoppable despite a near absence of talent on the edges for the Jets. He looks like a future Top 3 DT in football. Similarly you have people here already trying to put a "cap" on what Kinlaw is capable of when anyone who watched college football knew that he was considerably raw coming in.

Keep in mind Q was drafted #3 overall but was constantly constantly mocked at #1 and #2 as well. So I think the expectation on him was way higher than Kinlaw. Production by Bosa probably also skewed the view of fans. But I see your point.

Yeah, Kinlaw isn't even in that same conversation IMHO other than being 500 snap players. But if Kinlaw has a resurgence like Williams in pass rush, that'd be huge for us next year. And that's possible. But right now, he ain't it when comparing positions that move the needle more. He's a 500 snap run defender and we have a ton of those guys.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah, Kinlaw isn't even in that same conversation IMHO other than being 500 snap players. But if Kinlaw has a resurgence like Williams in pass rush, that'd be huge for us next year. And that's possible. But right now, he ain't it when comparing positions that move the needle more. He's a 500 snap run defender and we have a ton of those guys.

We really need to keep in mind that Kinlaw was a little raw coming out of college and was drafted based on his size a a limited amount of games. He didn't get a training camp and didn't get to play with Bosa or Ford on the edge. I expect much more from him in the future.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

MM was adequate in 2018 and 2019. What reason would someone have to think he would regress this way in year 3?

Agreed. It was just the opposite. Homer's thinking he would actually improve in pass protection in year 4. Instead, PRP injections, 295 pounds and a horrific year of regression in pass protection while getting even better in run blocking. Odd, indeed.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, Kinlaw isn't even in that same conversation IMHO other than being 500 snap players. But if Kinlaw has a resurgence like Williams in pass rush, that'd be huge for us next year. And that's possible. But right now, he ain't it when comparing positions that move the needle more. He's a 500 snap run defender and we have a ton of those guys.

We really need to keep in mind that Kinlaw was a little raw coming out of college and was drafted based on his size a a limited amount of games. He didn't get a training camp and didn't get to play with Bosa or Ford on the edge. I expect much more from him in the future.

Let's hope so. But clearly, there are far more positions that move the needle in a passing league. Right now he's just a run defender with raw pass rush ability and a few flashes. If he becomes a really good pass rusher like QW, then we're golden and it'll be worth the years it took to develop him. If not, then he's nothing more than what we already have an abundance of and rarely struggle to find and develop...run defenders with modest pass rush.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Let's hope so. But clearly, there are far more positions that move the needle in a passing league. Right now he's just a run defender with raw pass rush ability and a few flashes. If he becomes a really good pass rusher like QW, then we're golden and it'll be worth the years it took to develop him. If not, then he's nothing more than what we already have an abundance of and rarely struggle to find and develop...run defenders with modest pass rush.

1- Running league or passing league, football games are still won or lost by the play in the trenches. If a DL can help make a team one dimensional by taking away the pass or run it alters the opposing teams game plan and forces them to begin to abandon it.

2- Positional value varies from team to team and scheme to scheme.

And with regards to positional value, right guards (which is where Wirfs would have slotted into the OL with us) do not hold the same positional value as IDL. The recent history of the draft has shown this time and again.

I still don't understand why you harp on positional value so much, because it works against your own argument and desires for us to have drafted a RG at 13/14.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by RedGoldSquatch:

That's brutal.

Back to topic: I'm not sure this is a fair chart. Of course edge risers are going to get more pressure than interior guys, that's their job.

Having said that I have to side with NC a bit here, outside of Donald I just don't see enough difference in DTS from top tier to middle or lower. I put them in RB value territory in the draft as a result. Love the kid but would rather have gone in a more impactful position.

Originally posted by martysofresh:

Basically. Could've had Wirfs instead of trading back. Only time can tell how this will play out

Originally posted by maxsmart:

Correct, so far Kinlaw has been a poor pick because DT's are not impactful unless great pass rushers. Maybe he get's it together next year? Should have picked Wirfs and cut Bust McGlinchey

We're getting some smart fans in here!

Here's the problem with this take- Kinlaw was known as a pass rusher coming out. A raw player with elite physical traits. It's one year from a player that was said to be raw. Was Quinnen Williams a run defender after year 1? You can go ahead and compare Q. Williams year 1 to Kinlaw's year 1. To hear some of you tell it, the Jets should've never drafted him because of his rookie season.

What we have is a player with great tools working under a coach that has gotten the most out of his player (Kocurek). With that said, based on the chart provided, people outta lay off of AA. I doubt they are going to do that because none of this is about actual information. Just a vendetta

Looking forward to what Kinlaw shows in year 2. I need a rookie to flash and show why they were drafted in the 1st. Kinlaw has given us those moments. Solomon Thomas by comparison, did not.

Also, there is NO ONE who saw what Mike McGlinchey produced in 2020 coming. Not a single person.

Perhaps I didn't make my position clear. It's not that I think Kinlaw is a bust, just the opposite. I think he flashes great things. I just don't believe DTs are worth much over potential replacements. So, to be clear, I laughed at the Jets for taking QW at all in the top 3. Just like running backs, it's not a worthwhile spot to draft high.

That's not a knock of QW either, he's a great player. I just believe there are more impactful positions in football. Would rather have:
FQB
#1 WR
Lock down corner
Elite edge
Elite LT (yes, I'm aware I say TW isn't worth the money.)

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Let's hope so. But clearly, there are far more positions that move the needle in a passing league. Right now he's just a run defender with raw pass rush ability and a few flashes. If he becomes a really good pass rusher like QW, then we're golden and it'll be worth the years it took to develop him. If not, then he's nothing more than what we already have an abundance of and rarely struggle to find and develop...run defenders with modest pass rush.

1- Running league or passing league, football games are still won or lost by the play in the trenches. If a DL can help make a team one dimensional by taking away the pass or run it alters the opposing teams game plan and forces them to begin to abandon it.

2- Positional value varies from team to team and scheme to scheme.

And with regards to positional value, right guards (which is where Wirfs would have slotted into the OL with us) do not hold the same positional value as IDL. The recent history of the draft has shown this time and again.

I still don't understand why you harp on positional value so much, because it works against your own argument and desires for us to have drafted a RG at 13/14.

I don't disagree with this but that is in a vacuum where you say how would the team do without X. The question really is, what is the impact vs the person replacing him. Buckner is a great example. Top 5 at his position, did we miss him? Sure. Was it such a big drop in production it was bigger than the loss of Boss/ Ford? No. They simply aren't worth as much because it's a relatively low impact position of your name isn't Aaron Donald

Originally posted by RedGoldSquatch:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by RedGoldSquatch:

That's brutal.

Back to topic: I'm not sure this is a fair chart. Of course edge risers are going to get more pressure than interior guys, that's their job.

Having said that I have to side with NC a bit here, outside of Donald I just don't see enough difference in DTS from top tier to middle or lower. I put them in RB value territory in the draft as a result. Love the kid but would rather have gone in a more impactful position.

Originally posted by martysofresh:

Basically. Could've had Wirfs instead of trading back. Only time can tell how this will play out

Originally posted by maxsmart:

Correct, so far Kinlaw has been a poor pick because DT's are not impactful unless great pass rushers. Maybe he get's it together next year? Should have picked Wirfs and cut Bust McGlinchey

We're getting some smart fans in here!

Here's the problem with this take- Kinlaw was known as a pass rusher coming out. A raw player with elite physical traits. It's one year from a player that was said to be raw. Was Quinnen Williams a run defender after year 1? You can go ahead and compare Q. Williams year 1 to Kinlaw's year 1. To hear some of you tell it, the Jets should've never drafted him because of his rookie season.

What we have is a player with great tools working under a coach that has gotten the most out of his player (Kocurek). With that said, based on the chart provided, people outta lay off of AA. I doubt they are going to do that because none of this is about actual information. Just a vendetta

Looking forward to what Kinlaw shows in year 2. I need a rookie to flash and show why they were drafted in the 1st. Kinlaw has given us those moments. Solomon Thomas by comparison, did not.

Also, there is NO ONE who saw what Mike McGlinchey produced in 2020 coming. Not a single person.

Perhaps I didn't make my position clear. It's not that I think Kinlaw is a bust, just the opposite. I think he flashes great things. I just don't believe DTs are worth much over potential replacements. So, to be clear, I laughed at the Jets for taking QW at all in the top 3. Just like running backs, it's not a worthwhile spot to draft high.

That's not a knock of QW either, he's a great player. I just believe there are more impactful positions in football. Would rather have:
FQB
#1 WR
Lock down corner
Elite edge
Elite LT (yes, I'm aware I say TW isn't worth the money.)

It's pretty simple. If we want to extend this window, he can't be the "has flashes of greatness" guy next year. No time. Our secondary is gonna be in NY and we have "out for the season man" behind center.

This kid is going to be an absolute stud, maybe as soon as next year, certainly by year 3.