Javon Kinlaw is a Jet!-Pick #14, 2020 NFL Draft.

Bearing in mind the impact that covid had on his first pre-season I have no idea how people feel able to criticise him. And this was followed by, in effect, the team losing almost its entire edge rush. I know that the zone is inclined to be ridiculously judgemental, but maybe it would be sensible to ease up on Kinlaw until he has had a full training camp and preseason.

This forum is incredibly toxic. Idk if I should laugh or shake my head

Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:
This forum is incredibly toxic. Idk if I should laugh or shake my head

It's like twitter. Everybody gets to hide behind a keyboard and slander away.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Here's the problem with this take- Kinlaw was known as a pass rusher coming out. A raw player with elite physical traits. It's one year from a player that was said to be raw. Was Quinnen Williams a run defender after year 1? You can go ahead and compare Q. Williams year 1 to Kinlaw's year 1. To hear some of you tell it, the Jets should've never drafted him because of his rookie season.

What we have is a player with great tools working under a coach that has gotten the most out of his player (Kocurek). With that said, based on the chart provided, people outta lay off of AA. I doubt they are going to do that because none of this is about actual information. Just a vendetta

Looking forward to what Kinlaw shows in year 2. I need a rookie to flash and show why they were drafted in the 1st. Kinlaw has given us those moments. Solomon Thomas by comparison, did not.

Also, there is NO ONE who saw what Mike McGlinchey produced in 2020 coming. Not a single person.

IDK about the elite physical traits or being a known pass rusher. I don't recall hearing that shoot or seeing that of him in college. I will say covid got him.'being a rookie and not being able to through a normal offseason I think hurt the big guys development. So it was all on the job training this year. Next year we should see what we have.

Originally posted by MrNineSeven:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Here's the problem with this take- Kinlaw was known as a pass rusher coming out. A raw player with elite physical traits. It's one year from a player that was said to be raw. Was Quinnen Williams a run defender after year 1? You can go ahead and compare Q. Williams year 1 to Kinlaw's year 1. To hear some of you tell it, the Jets should've never drafted him because of his rookie season.

What we have is a player with great tools working under a coach that has gotten the most out of his player (Kocurek). With that said, based on the chart provided, people outta lay off of AA. I doubt they are going to do that because none of this is about actual information. Just a vendetta

Looking forward to what Kinlaw shows in year 2. I need a rookie to flash and show why they were drafted in the 1st. Kinlaw has given us those moments. Solomon Thomas by comparison, did not.

Also, there is NO ONE who saw what Mike McGlinchey produced in 2020 coming. Not a single person.

IDK about the elite physical traits or being a known pass rusher. I don't recall hearing that shoot or seeing that of him in college. I will say covid got him.'being a rookie and not being able to through a normal offseason I think hurt the big guys development. So it was all on the job training this year. Next year we should see what we have.

Look at all of the pre-draft reports on him and tell me what you think. You can even watch some South Carolina games.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by RedGoldSquatch:

I don't disagree with this but that is in a vacuum where you say how would the team do without X. The question really is, what is the impact vs the person replacing him. Buckner is a great example. Top 5 at his position, did we miss him? Sure. Was it such a big drop in production it was bigger than the loss of Boss/ Ford? No. They simply aren't worth as much because it's a relatively low impact position of your name isn't Aaron Donald

DeFo had 19.5 sacks his last 2 years here and 9.5 this year. I believe we had 9 sacks total from the IDL, and that includes AA who plays both inside and out. That doesn't include the pressures, hurries, and hits DeFo generates. 1 player had 9.5 sacks, it took us 7-8 guys to get 9 sacks.

The interior pass rush definitely missed DeFo. He isn't Donald but he is an impact player at 3T and made an impact on the Indy DL.

We took Kinlaw because we think when developed he will be another impact player and the 3T spot.

If DT isn't worth as much because unless you are AD it isn't a high impact position, why do teams routinely draft them in the first round? Because we can't say the same about OG's.

You're missing the point he is making. Kinlaw is NOT a pass rusher like QWilliams and DeFo. The previous advanced stats posted, confirmed he's a run defender just like all of the other DT's we have so the position value we're getting at 3T, so far, is NOT stacking up to the need/value...which is and always was, pass rush from the premier interior pass rush position at 3T in a W9. And to his point, the drop off from the production of Kinlaw to Street, Jones, Daniels, Givens, etc. is nearly non-existent per those advanced stats (wasn't missed the final two games/same production from the DL). Like with Solomon Thomas, they thought they could turn a run defender into a pass rusher. So far, that has not been the case. He's a 500 snap run defending DT (and he needs work here too).

That said, he has had some flashes and like I said from day 1, we might not see that full pass rush until year three b/c of how raw he was. It's also possible he is what he is too and he never develops that critical piece to being a 3T in a W9. Is that good position value until then?

Positional value in the draft isn't about gains or returns in the short term or long term. What has been the case "so far" doesn't change the positional value, and if he busts that doesn't change the positional value. That would represent a scouting, drafting and development failure.

A QB holds the highest positional value. If you draft a QB and he busts, it does not change his positional value.

We saw what we perceives to be a long term answer at a critical position in this scheme and we drafted him. Now it's time to continue development to get the most out of him.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by RedGoldSquatch:

I don't disagree with this but that is in a vacuum where you say how would the team do without X. The question really is, what is the impact vs the person replacing him. Buckner is a great example. Top 5 at his position, did we miss him? Sure. Was it such a big drop in production it was bigger than the loss of Boss/ Ford? No. They simply aren't worth as much because it's a relatively low impact position of your name isn't Aaron Donald

DeFo had 19.5 sacks his last 2 years here and 9.5 this year. I believe we had 9 sacks total from the IDL, and that includes AA who plays both inside and out. That doesn't include the pressures, hurries, and hits DeFo generates. 1 player had 9.5 sacks, it took us 7-8 guys to get 9 sacks.

The interior pass rush definitely missed DeFo. He isn't Donald but he is an impact player at 3T and made an impact on the Indy DL.

We took Kinlaw because we think when developed he will be another impact player and the 3T spot.

If DT isn't worth as much because unless you are AD it isn't a high impact position, why do teams routinely draft them in the first round? Because we can't say the same about OG's.

You're missing the point he is making. Kinlaw is NOT a pass rusher like QWilliams and DeFo. The previous advanced stats posted, confirmed he's a run defender just like all of the other DT's we have so the position value we're getting at 3T, so far, is NOT stacking up to the need/value...which is and always was, pass rush from the premier interior pass rush position at 3T in a W9. And to his point, the drop off from the production of Kinlaw to Street, Jones, Daniels, Givens, etc. is nearly non-existent per those advanced stats (wasn't missed the final two games/same production from the DL). Like with Solomon Thomas, they thought they could turn a run defender into a pass rusher. So far, that has not been the case. He's a 500 snap run defending DT (and he needs work here too).

That said, he has had some flashes and like I said from day 1, we might not see that full pass rush until year three b/c of how raw he was. It's also possible he is what he is too and he never develops that critical piece to being a 3T in a W9. Is that good position value until then?

Positional value in the draft isn't about gains or returns in the short term or long term. What has been the case "so far" doesn't change the positional value, and if he busts that doesn't change the positional value. That would represent a scouting, drafting and development failure.

A QB holds the highest positional value. If you draft a QB and he busts, it does not change his positional value.

We saw what we perceives to be a long term answer at a critical position in this scheme and we drafted him. Now it's time to continue development to get the most out of him.

A DT is not high on position value UNLESS his primary strength is pass rusher. Otherwise, he's the equivalent of how most see G's.

Originally posted by NCommand:

A DT is not high on position value UNLESS his primary strength is pass rusher. Otherwise, he's the equivalent of how most see G's.

Teams are drafting based on potential and projection, and Kinlaw has that potential and we projected he would be a stud once developed.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

A DT is not high on position value UNLESS his primary strength is pass rusher. Otherwise, he's the equivalent of how most see G's.

Teams are drafting based on potential and projection, and Kinlaw has that potential and we projected he would be a stud once developed.

But we were talking about position value.

We understand he has potential and upside.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

A DT is not high on position value UNLESS his primary strength is pass rusher. Otherwise, he's the equivalent of how most see G's.

Teams are drafting based on potential and projection, and Kinlaw has that potential and we projected he would be a stud once developed.

But we were talking about position value.

We understand he has potential and upside.

And a 3T/interior pass rusher has tremendous value in this defensive scheme.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

A DT is not high on position value UNLESS his primary strength is pass rusher. Otherwise, he's the equivalent of how most see G's.

Teams are drafting based on potential and projection, and Kinlaw has that potential and we projected he would be a stud once developed.

But we were talking about position value.

We understand he has potential and upside.

And a 3T/interior pass rusher has tremendous value in this defensive scheme.

Duh. Let me know when he is that.

Originally posted by Aj_hwd954:

This forum is incredibly toxic. Idk if I should laugh or shake my head

I would recommend the laughter.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

A DT is not high on position value UNLESS his primary strength is pass rusher. Otherwise, he's the equivalent of how most see G's.

Teams are drafting based on potential and projection, and Kinlaw has that potential and we projected he would be a stud once developed.

But we were talking about position value.

We understand he has potential and upside.

And a 3T/interior pass rusher has tremendous value in this defensive scheme.

Duh. Let me know when he is that.

They are currently working to develop him to get him to that. That doesn't change his positional value at the time of drafting him.

Hindsight because he did not dominate as a rookie, is not a fair or valid criticism of his positional value to this franchise.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

A DT is not high on position value UNLESS his primary strength is pass rusher. Otherwise, he's the equivalent of how most see G's.

Teams are drafting based on potential and projection, and Kinlaw has that potential and we projected he would be a stud once developed.

But we were talking about position value.

We understand he has potential and upside.

And a 3T/interior pass rusher has tremendous value in this defensive scheme.

Duh. Let me know when he is that.

They are currently working to develop him to get him to that. That doesn't change his positional value at the time of drafting him.

Hindsight because he did not dominate as a rookie, is not a fair or valid criticism of his positional value to this franchise.

No hindsight from me. He confirmed himself he was a run defender coming out. When guys say the NFL values DT's they're talking about interior pass rushers. Not run defenders. THAT'S what decreases his value. Run defenders are way down the line on positional value.

That's like getting a QB who's very very raw as a thrower but is an excellent runner. That dude isn't going top 14 and he's a QB.

Sure, if he gets there, it'll be worth the gamble. Let's hope your faith becomes justified!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

A DT is not high on position value UNLESS his primary strength is pass rusher. Otherwise, he's the equivalent of how most see G's.

Teams are drafting based on potential and projection, and Kinlaw has that potential and we projected he would be a stud once developed.

But we were talking about position value.

We understand he has potential and upside.

And a 3T/interior pass rusher has tremendous value in this defensive scheme.

Duh. Let me know when he is that.

They are currently working to develop him to get him to that. That doesn't change his positional value at the time of drafting him.

Hindsight because he did not dominate as a rookie, is not a fair or valid criticism of his positional value to this franchise.

No hindsight from me. He confirmed himself he was a run defender coming out. When guys say the NFL values DT's they're talking about interior pass rushers. Not run defenders. THAT'S what decreases his value. Run defenders are way down the line on positional value.

That's like getting a QB who's very very raw as a thrower but is an excellent runner. That dude isn't going top 14 and he's a QB.

Sure, if he gets there, it'll be worth the gamble. Let's hope your faith becomes justified!