Javon Kinlaw is a Jet!-Pick #14, 2020 NFL Draft.

Originally posted by English:

Bearing in mind the impact that covid had on his first pre-season I have no idea how people feel able to criticise him. And this was followed by, in effect, the team losing almost its entire edge rush. I know that the zone is inclined to be ridiculously judgemental, but maybe it would be sensible to ease up on Kinlaw until he has had a full training camp and preseason.

Excellent post, people have incredibly short memories. DT is one of the hardest positions to play as a rookie, and absolutely would have been harder for him this year, disrupted off-season and he actually had COVID, it can really get to your chest and cause issues, he said he was gassed.

Originally posted by NCommand:

No hindsight from me. He confirmed himself he was a run defender coming out. When guys say the NFL values DT's they're talking about interior pass rushers. Not run defenders. THAT'S what decreases his value. Run defenders are way down the line on positional value.

That's like getting a QB who's very very raw as a thrower but is an excellent runner. That dude isn't going top 14 and he's a QB.

Sure, if he gets there, it'll be worth the gamble. Let's hope your faith becomes justified!

He said that his forte was stopping the run. He also said that he was working on his pad level and technique.

Even if all he can do is push folks into the QB and stop them climbing the pocket he will be valuable when Bosa is back, I have a feeling he'll be much better than that.

If Bosa comes back strong, and if for some reason Ford takes a pay cut and stays healthy this season, we'll be seeing Armstead+Kinlaw putting up some sacks due to the QB stepping up in the pocket from the outside pass rush coming at him. Sadly that is a lot of, "IF'S".

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by NCommand:

No hindsight from me. He confirmed himself he was a run defender coming out. When guys say the NFL values DT's they're talking about interior pass rushers. Not run defenders. THAT'S what decreases his value. Run defenders are way down the line on positional value.

That's like getting a QB who's very very raw as a thrower but is an excellent runner. That dude isn't going top 14 and he's a QB.

Sure, if he gets there, it'll be worth the gamble. Let's hope your faith becomes justified!

He said that his forte was stopping the run. He also said that he was working on his pad level and technique.

Even if all he can do is push folks into the QB and stop them climbing the pocket he will be valuable when Bosa is back, I have a feeling he'll be much better than that.

Nah. He talked about being a bully in college because of his size/strength and relying on the bull rush and being asked to refine it here. Later, learning to add some finesse and counter to his bull rush.

Translation: run defender focused on the bull rush when it's a pass.

He's very honest and aware of his strengths and weaknesses unlike some fans who are trying to act like his primary skill set was pass rush coming out.

He's impossible not to like too.

Boom or bust prospect. Worst case scenario he is what he is and that's an above average run defender who could play 2i and early-down 3T. Best case, he develops as a dominant interior pass rusher for a complete game and becomes a 3-down 3T like DeFo (he's 1.5 snap player right now).

Originally posted by evil:

^

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by NCommand:

No hindsight from me. He confirmed himself he was a run defender coming out. When guys say the NFL values DT's they're talking about interior pass rushers. Not run defenders. THAT'S what decreases his value. Run defenders are way down the line on positional value.

That's like getting a QB who's very very raw as a thrower but is an excellent runner. That dude isn't going top 14 and he's a QB.

Sure, if he gets there, it'll be worth the gamble. Let's hope your faith becomes justified!

He said that his forte was stopping the run. He also said that he was working on his pad level and technique.

Even if all he can do is push folks into the QB and stop them climbing the pocket he will be valuable when Bosa is back, I have a feeling he'll be much better than that.

Nah. He talked about being a bully in college because of his size/strength and relying on the bull rush and being asked to refine it here. Later, learning to add some finesse and counter to his bull rush.

Translation: run defender focused on the bull rush when it's a pass.

He's very honest and aware of his strengths and weaknesses unlike some fans who are trying to act like his primary skill set was pass rush coming out.

He's impossible not to like too.

Boom or bust prospect. Worst case scenario he is what he is and that's an above average run defender who could play 2i and early-down 3T. Best case, he develops as a dominant interior pass rusher for a complete game and becomes a 3-down 3T like DeFo (he's 1.5 snap player right now).

You are drawing your own conclusions by "translating" his comments. His comments were very humble in nature.

Yes he needed to add to his pass rush arsenal and improve/refine his techniques. Most DL are not Nick Bosa refined coming out. Again, teams draft on potential and projection. And that does not change his positional value to this franchise and scheme.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by NCommand:

No hindsight from me. He confirmed himself he was a run defender coming out. When guys say the NFL values DT's they're talking about interior pass rushers. Not run defenders. THAT'S what decreases his value. Run defenders are way down the line on positional value.

That's like getting a QB who's very very raw as a thrower but is an excellent runner. That dude isn't going top 14 and he's a QB.

Sure, if he gets there, it'll be worth the gamble. Let's hope your faith becomes justified!

He said that his forte was stopping the run. He also said that he was working on his pad level and technique.

Even if all he can do is push folks into the QB and stop them climbing the pocket he will be valuable when Bosa is back, I have a feeling he'll be much better than that.

Nah. He talked about being a bully in college because of his size/strength and relying on the bull rush and being asked to refine it here. Later, learning to add some finesse and counter to his bull rush.

Translation: run defender focused on the bull rush when it's a pass.

He's very honest and aware of his strengths and weaknesses unlike some fans who are trying to act like his primary skill set was pass rush coming out.

He's impossible not to like too.

Boom or bust prospect. Worst case scenario he is what he is and that's an above average run defender who could play 2i and early-down 3T. Best case, he develops as a dominant interior pass rusher for a complete game and becomes a 3-down 3T like DeFo (he's 1.5 snap player right now).

You are drawing your own conclusions by "translating" his comments. His comments were very humble in nature.

Yes he needed to add to his pass rush arsenal and improve/refine his techniques. Most DL are not Nick Bosa refined coming out. Again, teams draft on potential and projection. And that does not change his positional value to this franchise and scheme.

Oh, there are other videos of him talking about this too. This is just one example. Nick Bosa's primary skill set WAS pass rush which is why he went #2 overall. Given he was refined was just icing on the cake! Javon was NOT a pass rusher coming out. Hoping and trying to turn him into that does change the positional value esp. if he doesn't reach it (like how Solomon Thomas didn't become the pass rushing Big End).

That said, I love the kid. I love the clay mold. I don't like the positional value. That's all. A 500 snap run defender in ac passing league doesn't move the needle for me esp. given how many of those players we already had. We need a different skill set at 3T; the main skill set required of a 3T in this system (i.e. Bryant Young interior pass rushing).

Let's just hope he can become that starting next year!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by NCommand:

No hindsight from me. He confirmed himself he was a run defender coming out. When guys say the NFL values DT's they're talking about interior pass rushers. Not run defenders. THAT'S what decreases his value. Run defenders are way down the line on positional value.

That's like getting a QB who's very very raw as a thrower but is an excellent runner. That dude isn't going top 14 and he's a QB.

Sure, if he gets there, it'll be worth the gamble. Let's hope your faith becomes justified!

He said that his forte was stopping the run. He also said that he was working on his pad level and technique.

Even if all he can do is push folks into the QB and stop them climbing the pocket he will be valuable when Bosa is back, I have a feeling he'll be much better than that.

Nah. He talked about being a bully in college because of his size/strength and relying on the bull rush and being asked to refine it here. Later, learning to add some finesse and counter to his bull rush.

Translation: run defender focused on the bull rush when it's a pass.

He's very honest and aware of his strengths and weaknesses unlike some fans who are trying to act like his primary skill set was pass rush coming out.

He's impossible not to like too.

Boom or bust prospect. Worst case scenario he is what he is and that's an above average run defender who could play 2i and early-down 3T. Best case, he develops as a dominant interior pass rusher for a complete game and becomes a 3-down 3T like DeFo (he's 1.5 snap player right now).

You are drawing your own conclusions by "translating" his comments. His comments were very humble in nature.

Yes he needed to add to his pass rush arsenal and improve/refine his techniques. Most DL are not Nick Bosa refined coming out. Again, teams draft on potential and projection. And that does not change his positional value to this franchise and scheme.

Oh, there are other videos of him talking about this too. This is just one example. Nick Bosa's primary skill set WAS pass rush which is why he went #2 overall. Given he was refined was just icing on the cake! Javon was NOT a pass rusher coming out. Hoping and trying to turn him into that does change the positional value esp. if he doesn't reach it (like how Solomon Thomas didn't become the pass rushing Big End).

That said, I love the kid. I love the clay mold. I don't like the positional value. That's all. A 500 snap run defender in ac passing league doesn't move the needle for me esp. given how many of those players we already had. We need a different skill set at 3T; the main skill set required of a 3T in this system (i.e. Bryant Young interior pass rushing).

Let's just hope he can become that starting next year!

Whether he busts or fulfills his potential does not change positional value. That value is determined pre draft not with hindsight post draft as teams don't have hindsight pre draft.

And it doesn't matter what he was in college, he got drafted based on potential and projection. That determined his positional value.

Nice

https://www.49ers.com/news/fred-warner-trent-williams-javon-kinlaw-pfwa-honors-49ers

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by NCommand:

No hindsight from me. He confirmed himself he was a run defender coming out. When guys say the NFL values DT's they're talking about interior pass rushers. Not run defenders. THAT'S what decreases his value. Run defenders are way down the line on positional value.

That's like getting a QB who's very very raw as a thrower but is an excellent runner. That dude isn't going top 14 and he's a QB.

Sure, if he gets there, it'll be worth the gamble. Let's hope your faith becomes justified!

He said that his forte was stopping the run. He also said that he was working on his pad level and technique.

Even if all he can do is push folks into the QB and stop them climbing the pocket he will be valuable when Bosa is back, I have a feeling he'll be much better than that.

Nah. He talked about being a bully in college because of his size/strength and relying on the bull rush and being asked to refine it here. Later, learning to add some finesse and counter to his bull rush.

Translation: run defender focused on the bull rush when it's a pass.

He's very honest and aware of his strengths and weaknesses unlike some fans who are trying to act like his primary skill set was pass rush coming out.

He's impossible not to like too.

Boom or bust prospect. Worst case scenario he is what he is and that's an above average run defender who could play 2i and early-down 3T. Best case, he develops as a dominant interior pass rusher for a complete game and becomes a 3-down 3T like DeFo (he's 1.5 snap player right now).

His NFL draft profile rating. I think like 6.5 which is boom or bust. The level of awareness is a positive. Not that it's enough but it helps.

Originally posted by evil:

Whether he busts or fulfills his potential does not change positional value. That value is determined pre draft not with hindsight post draft as teams don't have hindsight pre draft.

And it doesn't matter what he was in college, he got drafted based on potential and projection. That determined his positional value.

Sure it does. This isn't 1965. It's 2021 and it's a passing league now 100%.

Are DT's important on the value chart?

Sure. But there are two very distinct skill sets, no different than a RT...run and pass rush/protection.

If I told you we're going to draft a run defending DT at 14, you'd be pissed. If I told you we're drafting a pass rushing DT, you'd be elated.

I'm focusing on the reality coming out of college and confirmed thus far TODAY and you're focusing on hope, potential and developing that pass rush skill set over years. And that's fine.

But as to positional value, the skill set makes ALL the difference within that position value.

https://www.ninersnation.com/2021/1/20/22239168/49ers-rookie-javon-kinlaw-named-to-pfwas-all-rookie-team

Quinnen Williams was one of the best pass rushing DT's prospects in recent memory, yet Kinlaws rookie stats compare favorably. As with ALL DT's let's give the kid a few years before we start defining his boundaries.

Originally posted by WINiner:
Quinnen Williams was one of the best pass rushing DT's prospects in recent memory, yet Kinlaws rookie stats compare favorably. As with ALL DT's let's give the kid a few years before we start defining his boundaries.

Now Kinlaw will get a full NFL offseason regimen.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Sure it does. This isn't 1965. It's 2021 and it's a passing league now 100%.

Are DT's important on the value chart?

Sure. But there are two very distinct skill sets, no different than a RT...run and pass rush/protection.

If I told you we're going to draft a run defending DT at 14, you'd be pissed. If I told you we're drafting a pass rushing DT, you'd be elated.

I'm focusing on the reality coming out of college and confirmed thus far TODAY and you're focusing on hope, potential and developing that pass rush skill set over years. And that's fine.

But as to positional value, the skill set makes ALL the difference within that position value.

If you told me we were drafting Mike Iupati again at 14 i'd be pissed. Or any other guard not named Quentin Nelson.