Javon Kinlaw is a Jet!-Pick #14, 2020 NFL Draft.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Although he played offense, Bob St. Clair.

He used to eat raw meat. He once freaked out a rookie by eating raw liver in front of him. I heard him say during an interview that he used to eat dove hearts. He would have been a sensation on the internet in this era. Can you imagine pictures of him with blood running down his chin as he bites into a piece of raw meat. Post it in front of the opposing team locker room.

If he was born in this era he'd be posting about his Keto meals on TikTok.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Quinnen Williams was one of the best pass rushing DT's prospects in recent memory, yet Kinlaws rookie stats compare favorably. As with ALL DT's let's give the kid a few years before we start defining his boundaries.

Quinnen Williams doesn't have a pick six.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Sure it does. This isn't 1965. It's 2021 and it's a passing league now 100%.

Are DT's important on the value chart?

Sure. But there are two very distinct skill sets, no different than a RT...run and pass rush/protection.

If I told you we're going to draft a run defending DT at 14, you'd be pissed. If I told you we're drafting a pass rushing DT, you'd be elated.

I'm focusing on the reality coming out of college and confirmed thus far TODAY and you're focusing on hope, potential and developing that pass rush skill set over years. And that's fine.

But as to positional value, the skill set makes ALL the difference within that position value.

If you told me we were drafting Mike Iupati again at 14 i'd be pissed. Or any other guard not named Quentin Nelson.

Why? Mike Iupati was a monster run blocker coming out perfect for their power blocking and pull scheme.

PS: I'm not advocating for a G at 14. I'm taking about a run defending DT.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Why? Mike Iupati was a monster run blocker coming out perfect for their power blocking and pull scheme.

PS: I'm not advocating for a G at 14. I'm taking about a run defending DT.

Agree. He was a scheme fit for the Roman offense.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Why? Mike Iupati was a monster run blocker coming out perfect for their power blocking and pull scheme.

PS: I'm not advocating for a G at 14. I'm taking about a run defending DT.

Agree. He was a scheme fit for the Roman offense.

Big time. That's why nobody was upset too much with McGlinchey either since his strength clearly was zone run blocking. Perfect for Kyle. Like with Kinlaw and interior pass rushing, we also hoped McGlinchey would develop as an excellent pass protector too. But, nope. And that's exactly my point/concern on position value.

Not arguing Iupatit wasn't a fit, but if the conversation is about positional value he never played near well enough to justify a taking at 14. No guard not named Nelson does.

DT will always have a higher value than guard simply because the elite ones are far more rare to acquire outside the 1st. You can develop an elite guard from throughout the draft.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Not arguing Iupatit wasn't a fit, but if the conversation is about positional value he never played near well enough to justify a taking at 14. No guard not named Nelson does.

DT will always have a higher value than guard simply because the elite ones are far more rare to acquire outside the 1st. You can develop an elite guard from throughout the draft.

Where many GM's choose to draft doesn't mean they have positional value. In fact, to your point, how many DT's like Solomon Thomas and others have absolutely flopped on expectations vs. G's who were taken later turned out to be terrific?

But to my overall point, no GM would value a run defending DT at 14. The HOPE is developing them also into premier pass rushers and complete 3 down players. Plus many teams run a 3-4 so they need a more "premier" DT that more often than not, will be taking on 2 OL.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Where many GM's choose to draft doesn't mean they have positional value. In fact, to your point, how many DT's like Solomon Thomas and others have absolutely flopped on expectations vs. G's who were taken later turned out to be terrific?

But to my overall point, no GM would value a run defending DT at 14. The HOPE is developing them also into premier pass rushers and complete 3 down players. Plus many teams run a 3-4 so they need a more "premier" DT that more often than not, be taking on 2 OL.

Well yah No GM would value that. But they also wouldn't value a run blocking G like Iupati who couldn't pass protect either.

Lot of OL have flopped too. The reason guards aren't drafted there is precisely because they can be developed later. DT's are valued more by every GM. It's why the top ones are paid so much more than the top guards. That's how you know how a position is valued.

Kenny Clark is pretty much a run stopping DT and he's being paid more than any of the top guards are.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Where many GM's choose to draft doesn't mean they have positional value. In fact, to your point, how many DT's like Solomon Thomas and others have absolutely flopped on expectations vs. G's who were taken later turned out to be terrific?

But to my overall point, no GM would value a run defending DT at 14. The HOPE is developing them also into premier pass rushers and complete 3 down players. Plus many teams run a 3-4 so they need a more "premier" DT that more often than not, be taking on 2 OL.

Well yah No GM would value that. But they also wouldn't value a run blocking G like Iupati who couldn't pass protect either.

Lot of OL have flopped too. The reason guards aren't drafted there is precisely because they can be developed later. DT's are valued more by every GM. It's why the top ones are paid so much more than the top guards. That's how you know how a position is valued.

Kenny Clark is pretty much a run stopping DT and he's being paid more than any of the top guards are.

I certainly agreed with your overall comparison to a run blocking G vs. run defending DT. Same exact concept. But you used Iupati and so in that aspect, Harbaugh absolutely would be all for it...like also getting big boy Anthony Davis too in that same first round. Like Kyle with McGlinchey, both are all about establishing the run first and stopping it with the DL.

Don't get me wrong. I recognize what GM's "value" overall in general terms...but it also hasn't worked very well too which is why there are so many on the FA market every year vs. top OL which rarely hit FA. Kind of an oxymoron.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Not arguing Iupatit wasn't a fit, but if the conversation is about positional value he never played near well enough to justify a taking at 14. No guard not named Nelson does.

DT will always have a higher value than guard simply because the elite ones are far more rare to acquire outside the 1st. You can develop an elite guard from throughout the draft.

4x pro bowl
1x all pro
Doesn't "justify taking him at 14?????"

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Where many GM's choose to draft doesn't mean they have positional value. In fact, to your point, how many DT's like Solomon Thomas and others have absolutely flopped on expectations vs. G's who were taken later turned out to be terrific?

But to my overall point, no GM would value a run defending DT at 14. The HOPE is developing them also into premier pass rushers and complete 3 down players. Plus many teams run a 3-4 so they need a more "premier" DT that more often than not, be taking on 2 OL.

Well yah No GM would value that. But they also wouldn't value a run blocking G like Iupati who couldn't pass protect either.

Lot of OL have flopped too. The reason guards aren't drafted there is precisely because they can be developed later. DT's are valued more by every GM. It's why the top ones are paid so much more than the top guards. That's how you know how a position is valued.

Kenny Clark is pretty much a run stopping DT and he's being paid more than any of the top guards are.

I certainly agreed with your overall comparison to a run blocking G vs. run defending DT. Same exact concept. But you used Iupati and so in that aspect, Harbaugh absolutely would be all for it...like also getting big boy Anthony Davis too in that same first round. Like Kyle with McGlinchey, both are all about establishing the run first and stopping it with the DL.

Don't get me wrong. I recognize what GM's "value" overall in general terms...but it also hasn't worked very well too which is why there are so many on the FA market every year vs. top OL which rarely hit FA. Kind of an oxymoron.

On Iupati, if Harbaugh loved him he would have extended him, but he & Baalke chose to extend Davis. I'm against the idea of a RG or RT in the top 15, unless he's a Quenton Nelson, even McGlinchey at 9 was too high, but, Kyle valued him higher than we did. I'm not happy with his development, hoping he turns it around in 2021.

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Not arguing Iupatit wasn't a fit, but if the conversation is about positional value he never played near well enough to justify a taking at 14. No guard not named Nelson does.

DT will always have a higher value than guard simply because the elite ones are far more rare to acquire outside the 1st. You can develop an elite guard from throughout the draft.

4x pro bowl
1x all pro
Doesn't "justify taking him at 14?????"

hE's a GUarD DoE.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Where many GM's choose to draft doesn't mean they have positional value. In fact, to your point, how many DT's like Solomon Thomas and others have absolutely flopped on expectations vs. G's who were taken later turned out to be terrific?

But to my overall point, no GM would value a run defending DT at 14. The HOPE is developing them also into premier pass rushers and complete 3 down players. Plus many teams run a 3-4 so they need a more "premier" DT that more often than not, be taking on 2 OL.

Well yah No GM would value that. But they also wouldn't value a run blocking G like Iupati who couldn't pass protect either.

Lot of OL have flopped too. The reason guards aren't drafted there is precisely because they can be developed later. DT's are valued more by every GM. It's why the top ones are paid so much more than the top guards. That's how you know how a position is valued.

Kenny Clark is pretty much a run stopping DT and he's being paid more than any of the top guards are.

I certainly agreed with your overall comparison to a run blocking G vs. run defending DT. Same exact concept. But you used Iupati and so in that aspect, Harbaugh absolutely would be all for it...like also getting big boy Anthony Davis too in that same first round. Like Kyle with McGlinchey, both are all about establishing the run first and stopping it with the DL.

Don't get me wrong. I recognize what GM's "value" overall in general terms...but it also hasn't worked very well too which is why there are so many on the FA market every year vs. top OL which rarely hit FA. Kind of an oxymoron.

On Iupati, if Harbaugh loved him he would have extended him, but he & Baalke chose to extend Davis. I'm against the idea of a RG or RT in the top 15, unless he's a Quenton Nelson, even McGlinchey at 9 was too high, but, Kyle valued him higher than we did. I'm not happy with his development, hoping he turns it around in 2021.

You remember better than anyone they were cap strapped at that time and Iupati had a ton of injuries at that point and was still offered a ridiculous contract to leave. No doubt Harbaugh would have loved to have the league's best power pull G for Frank given 99.9% of his runs were in between the T's.

I understand not wanting to draft a higher IOL but then why would you want a run defending DT in the same breath? That's all I'm saying.

"Positional value" seems archaic at this point with some positions esp. given the overabundance of DT's on free agency now as a result and OL never making it to free agency (and for good reason). Positional value should also be a team-by-team faction.

What the league should be focusing on are players who have primary skill sets of pass rush and pass protection in this passing league.

We're exhibit A giving up 1,800 yards rushing a year every year (poor) and it having 0 effect on W-L's. We're showing you can throw in a whole host of run defenders (primary skill set) and get equal production from 1st to UDFA draft picks.

Originally posted by elguapo:

4x pro bowl
1x all pro
Doesn't "justify taking him at 14?????"

Power of name recognition. Was never the best guard in the league despite the all pro nod. Was basically Mike McGlinchey at guard.

Originally posted by NCommand:

You remember better than anyone they were cap strapped at that time and Iupati had a ton of injuries at that point and was still offered a ridiculous contract to leave. No doubt Harbaugh would have loved to have the league's best power pull G for Frank given 99.9% of his runs were in between the T's.

I understand not wanting to draft a higher IOL but then why would you want a run defending DT in the same breath? That's all I'm saying.

"Positional value" seems archaic at this point with some positions esp. given the overabundance of DT's on free agency now as a result and OL never making it to free agency (and for good reason). Positional value should also be a team-by-team faction.

What the league should be focusing on are players who have primary skill sets of pass rush and pass protection in this passing league.

We're exhibit A giving up 1,800 yards rushing a year every year (poor) and it having 0 effect on W-L's. We're showing you can throw in a whole host of run defenders (primary skill set) and get equal production from 1st to UDFA draft picks.

Guards and centers make FA all the time. Hell this year alone you will have Lindsay, Mack, Pouncey, Andrews, Scherff, Thuney. The number of guys who's primary skill set is pass protection can be counted on one hand.

Over abundance of DTs? Who was the last elite DT to hit FA? They all get signed too and to much bigger money than guards.