Javon Kinlaw is a Jet!-Pick #14, 2020 NFL Draft.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:
How many FA DT's are consistent pass rushers? How many are entering their prime or still in their prime?

What 3Ts that were FA's last year fit the above criteria and would have been a fit schematically and financially?

I've always specified run defenders. That's what Kinlaw is.

Here's 150 of just the DT's last year: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2020/all/defensive-tackle/

Here's the thread on the cheap ones we all wanted: https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/free-agency/193609-2020-free-agency/

But you know Kinlaw wasn't drafted to be a run defending tackle and is being developed. We were looking to add a disruptive interior DL not a cheap band aid to fill the hole at 3t. We run a scheme dependent on the front four consistently getting pressure.

Then they should have drafted a pass rusher that high.

BTW plenty of high quality DT's in that list you ignored.

I don't want to read a long list, I had asked you to provide a list of the consistent pass rushers that can play the 3 every down, and that are entering their prime or in their prime? Also they would have had to fit within the cap space we had.

That list is nonexistent in essence though. No IDL that generates consistent pressure and is in his prime or entering it comes at an affordable price. Kinlaw + Bosa gave the potential for a youthful foundation up front to build around.

I don't blame you. I read it last year. My point was about the oversaturation of DT's compared to OL where there is clearly a smaller pool of quality talent. #DimeADozen

You have a chance to get a Wirfs over a Kinlaw, you do that every time esp. b/c of massive pool of DT FA's there are...many can't even find work.

No that's a philosophical decision for a team.

This oversaturation you speak of is a myth. Plenty of bodies in FA for the DL, but same can be said for OL. The ones who win with consistency and are dependable are the few and far between.

Kinkaw like Wirfs had the potential to be the few and far between. If we ran a 2 gapping 3-4 front, then you likely favor the OL. But when you run a scheme dependant on pressure from the front four, it isn't a shock to favor the DL. You can scheme offense, but you need talent to win on D.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
I predict Kinlaw will make us forget about Buckner after next season. He is my candidate for breakout star next season.

Same.

Right now he is a better run defender than a pass rusher but trust me it will even out. He's going to take more of a chris Jones path where it takes him 2-3 years to become a very good interior pass rusher. NC your point is still taken, I just feel he will be a 6-8 sack per year guy consistently

Let's hope so. I'd love a dominant front 7 so we can relax a bit on the back end.

I'd rather have a dominant nickel (front four and back six) than a dominant front seven.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:
How many FA DT's are consistent pass rushers? How many are entering their prime or still in their prime?

What 3Ts that were FA's last year fit the above criteria and would have been a fit schematically and financially?

I've always specified run defenders. That's what Kinlaw is.

Here's 150 of just the DT's last year: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2020/all/defensive-tackle/

Here's the thread on the cheap ones we all wanted: https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/free-agency/193609-2020-free-agency/

But you know Kinlaw wasn't drafted to be a run defending tackle and is being developed. We were looking to add a disruptive interior DL not a cheap band aid to fill the hole at 3t. We run a scheme dependent on the front four consistently getting pressure.

Then they should have drafted a pass rusher that high.

BTW plenty of high quality DT's in that list you ignored.

I don't want to read a long list, I had asked you to provide a list of the consistent pass rushers that can play the 3 every down, and that are entering their prime or in their prime? Also they would have had to fit within the cap space we had.

That list is nonexistent in essence though. No IDL that generates consistent pressure and is in his prime or entering it comes at an affordable price. Kinlaw + Bosa gave the potential for a youthful foundation up front to build around.

I don't blame you. I read it last year. My point was about the oversaturation of DT's compared to OL where there is clearly a smaller pool of quality talent. #DimeADozen

You have a chance to get a Wirfs over a Kinlaw, you do that every time esp. b/c of massive pool of DT FA's there are...many can't even find work.

No that's a philosophical decision for a team.

This oversaturation you speak of is a myth. Plenty of bodies in FA for the DL, but same can be said for OL. The ones who win with consistency and are dependable are the few and far between.

Kinkaw like Wirfs had the potential to be the few and far between. If we ran a 2 gapping 3-4 front, then you likely favor the OL. But when you run a scheme dependant on pressure from the front four, it isn't a shock to favor the DL. You can scheme offense, but you need talent to win on D.

Totally agree.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by evil:
How many FA DT's are consistent pass rushers? How many are entering their prime or still in their prime?

What 3Ts that were FA's last year fit the above criteria and would have been a fit schematically and financially?

I've always specified run defenders. That's what Kinlaw is.

Here's 150 of just the DT's last year: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2020/all/defensive-tackle/

Here's the thread on the cheap ones we all wanted: https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/free-agency/193609-2020-free-agency/

But you know Kinlaw wasn't drafted to be a run defending tackle and is being developed. We were looking to add a disruptive interior DL not a cheap band aid to fill the hole at 3t. We run a scheme dependent on the front four consistently getting pressure.

Then they should have drafted a pass rusher that high.

BTW plenty of high quality DT's in that list you ignored.

I don't want to read a long list, I had asked you to provide a list of the consistent pass rushers that can play the 3 every down, and that are entering their prime or in their prime? Also they would have had to fit within the cap space we had.

That list is nonexistent in essence though. No IDL that generates consistent pressure and is in his prime or entering it comes at an affordable price. Kinlaw + Bosa gave the potential for a youthful foundation up front to build around.

I don't blame you. I read it last year. My point was about the oversaturation of DT's compared to OL where there is clearly a smaller pool of quality talent. #DimeADozen

You have a chance to get a Wirfs over a Kinlaw, you do that every time esp. b/c of massive pool of DT FA's there are...many can't even find work.

You can have run defending DT's (and draft Wirfs) **IF** you have a dominant edge in Bosa **AND** two dominant corners (Like a young Lott and Eric Wright). If you are missing that back coverage DB's then you have to make it up with more pressure on the front end with a Kinalw kind of DT. (an explosive gap penetrating pass rusher).

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
I predict Kinlaw will make us forget about Buckner after next season. He is my candidate for breakout star next season.

Same.

Right now he is a better run defender than a pass rusher but trust me it will even out. He's going to take more of a chris Jones path where it takes him 2-3 years to become a very good interior pass rusher. NC your point is still taken, I just feel he will be a 6-8 sack per year guy consistently

Let's hope so. I'd love a dominant front 7 so we can relax a bit on the back end.

and also draft and acquire some good OL for a damn change. You and a few others like myself have demanded we spend high draft capital on OL. You were right all along pushing the need for OL as a top priority. This year we resign Trent Williams and sign Mack, then draft a T C or G with one of our top 3 picks so he can play RG for the love of Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

6-7 sack guy is exactly who you want that early in the draft....

I can't say i ever or liked the kinlaw pick. felt a lot like the armstead and thomas selections, granted they're different players...it just felt like none of those dudes were worthy of those picks and felt like they were busts from the get go.

They will have a lot of holes in this draft, the best cb,,ol, or if there's still a qb worth that early, take em.

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
I predict Kinlaw will make us forget about Buckner after next season. He is my candidate for breakout star next season.

Same.

Right now he is a better run defender than a pass rusher but trust me it will even out. He's going to take more of a chris Jones path where it takes him 2-3 years to become a very good interior pass rusher. NC your point is still taken, I just feel he will be a 6-8 sack per year guy consistently

Let's hope so. I'd love a dominant front 7 so we can relax a bit on the back end.

and also draft and acquire some good OL for a damn change. You and a few others like myself have demanded we spend high draft capital on OL. You were right all along pushing the need for OL as a top priority. This year we resign Trent Williams and sign Mack, then draft a T C or G with one of our top 3 picks so he can play RG for the love of Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Totally agree. I"m hoping they are able to sign Mack to tutor a young and raw potential draftee backup center to start in a year or two. Also, I can't believe 49ers played around 9 games on astro-turf this year. Gotta get the equipment manager to look at the shoes the 49ers wear on astro turf to give the players some give when they plant their foot. I don't know if the technology exists to enable the soles of the shoes to break away, but that might help save some football players knees.

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
I predict Kinlaw will make us forget about Buckner after next season. He is my candidate for breakout star next season.

Same.

Right now he is a better run defender than a pass rusher but trust me it will even out. He's going to take more of a chris Jones path where it takes him 2-3 years to become a very good interior pass rusher. NC your point is still taken, I just feel he will be a 6-8 sack per year guy consistently

Let's hope so. I'd love a dominant front 7 so we can relax a bit on the back end.

and also draft and acquire some good OL for a damn change. You and a few others like myself have demanded we spend high draft capital on OL. You were right all along pushing the need for OL as a top priority. This year we resign Trent Williams and sign Mack, then draft a T C or G with one of our top 3 picks so he can play RG for the love of Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Frustrating but let's hope they've learned. I have noted over the off seasons they tend to attack groups knowing they had 6 years to build the team. OL, DL, ER, LB, CB, ST, etc.

Let's get back to OL and see what happens.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by JTB1974:
I predict Kinlaw will make us forget about Buckner after next season. He is my candidate for breakout star next season.

Same.

Right now he is a better run defender than a pass rusher but trust me it will even out. He's going to take more of a chris Jones path where it takes him 2-3 years to become a very good interior pass rusher. NC your point is still taken, I just feel he will be a 6-8 sack per year guy consistently

Let's hope so. I'd love a dominant front 7 so we can relax a bit on the back end.

and also draft and acquire some good OL for a damn change. You and a few others like myself have demanded we spend high draft capital on OL. You were right all along pushing the need for OL as a top priority. This year we resign Trent Williams and sign Mack, then draft a T C or G with one of our top 3 picks so he can play RG for the love of Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Frustrating but let's hope they've learned. I have noted over the off seasons they tend to attack groups knowing they had 6 years to build the team. OL, DL, ER, LB, CB, ST, etc.

Let's get back to OL and see what happens.

I think the lesson learned was not to rely on Richburg being heslthy.

Originally posted by Giedi:
I think the lesson learned was not to rely on Richburg being heslthy.

And sooooo many others.

Originally posted by Giedi:
I think the lesson learned was not to rely on Richburg being heslthy.

Rich has played almost the amount of games jimmy has played with less years as a 9er

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I think the lesson learned was not to rely on Richburg being heslthy.

Rich has played almost the amount of games jimmy has played with less years as a 9er

lol. Since 2018, when Richburg signed: snap counts JG: 1558 Richburg: 1896

Originally posted by tommyncal:
lol. Since 2018, when Richburg signed: snap counts JG: 1558 Richburg: 1896

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Rich has played almost the amount of games jimmy has played with less years as a 9er

Yup, that's Jimmy Superman's kryptonite - his health. If he can solve that, I see multiple Super bowls in his future.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I think the lesson learned was not to rely on Richburg being heslthy.

And sooooo many others.

Well if we can shed Dee Ford and Richburg and have more Trent Williams (in terms of durability) and Hyders of the world, we can play on astro-turf and maybe not get so injured.

Maybe even draft players specifically to deal with playing on astro-turf, because 4 games out of the year are guaranteed to be played on astro-turf every season. (LA and Seadderall have astro-turf)

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
6-7 sack guy is exactly who you want that early in the draft....

I can't say i ever or liked the kinlaw pick. felt a lot like the armstead and thomas selections, granted they're different players...it just felt like none of those dudes were worthy of those picks and felt like they were busts from the get go.

They will have a lot of holes in this draft, the best cb,,ol, or if there's still a qb worth that early, take em.

Hell yea armsdead was a HUGE reach the day he was drafted I was like wtf could have gotten him much later, with that said I thought Aldon smith was too but he was a beast