NFL to propose incentives to hire minorities

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/05/21/marvin-lewis-offended-nfl-offering-incentive-minority-african-american-hires/5236448002/

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/05/21/marvin-lewis-offended-nfl-offering-incentive-minority-african-american-hires/5236448002/

The guy that is already well off is offended?

It figures...

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/05/21/marvin-lewis-offended-nfl-offering-incentive-minority-african-american-hires/5236448002/

The guy that is already well off is offended?

It figures...

Wow his comment(s) really went over your head

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/05/21/marvin-lewis-offended-nfl-offering-incentive-minority-african-american-hires/5236448002/

Just another example of a qualified minority coach that never got a shot or fair chance, oh wait.

Originally posted by ChicoCorrales:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/05/21/marvin-lewis-offended-nfl-offering-incentive-minority-african-american-hires/5236448002/

Just another example of a qualified minority coach that never got a shot or fair chance, oh wait.

Thats like using Eminem to prove that racism doesn't exist.

Originally posted by ChicoCorrales:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/05/21/marvin-lewis-offended-nfl-offering-incentive-minority-african-american-hires/5236448002/

Just another example of a qualified minority coach that never got a shot or fair chance, oh wait.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
Seems like you are saying racism is here, it's not good but don't bring it up and don't do anything about it?

That's cause you're trying to create a narrative instead of actually finding out my position.

I've already said in this thread that I think we could start a program to help minority coaches get noticed and more qualified. The NFL has plenty of resources to make that happen. I think the league should probably be involved somehow observing coaching hires to investigate if their is any evidence of racial bias. Being that there are so few head coaching positions... I don't see how that would be a bad idea.

I believe any profession should strive to have equal representation of races... especially ones with a majority like black people do in the NFL.

That's not the same as saying having a majority white front office is a bad thing or that it is proof of mainly racism alone.

Minority coaches are more than qualified, ending racist practices would simply provide a fair opportunity.

This is a microcosm of institutionalized racism in our society being played out in the NFL. The NFL should be more responsible when you look at their workforce.

Your assumption that African Americans need to be trained up in order to do certain jobs is funny, because when slavery was alive and well in the United States, there was a %100 employment rate for African Americans. Hence how there are many lower level opportunities abound, just don't try to climb the latter. Successful African Americans are most often given or have taken opportunities and ran with them, you would have more of this if there were more opportunities for African Americans in this society.

Oh, and I didn't create the narrative on racism. Just remember how it all went down...

What's ACTUALLY funny is you're trying to change what I said so you can argue against a position I don't hold. It's embarrassing so just stop.

What I meant was that the NFL could start a program promoting and training minority coaches. I never said they weren't qualified already because obviously we already have good NFL coaches, head coaches, and front office members on this team and throughout NFL history.

You might think that's not enough but you also haven't given anything tangible to work with other then try to give me a history lesson and try to make my words look racist when they're not.

What would you do? Because other then Pheonix's ideas I haven't heard much from the pro bribing draft pick camp.

Before I go in on the bold I'd like to get a better understanding on what you mean by "training minority coaches".

Exactly what it sounds like. You help minority coaches become overqualified then they maybe already are compared to other candidates. I don't see how saying helping minority coaches improve... regardless of their ability to coach already, is a bad thing.

Cause to me... the only thing that matters is the quality of coaching. Bribing owners to hire minorities does not incentivize them to hire the best candidates.

And that's a problem in my opinion.

+ Show all quotes
So let me get this straight: make already qualified Black coaches overqualified in order to get a fair comparison to other candidates? And you don't see the fundamental absurdity with that position? I truly hope I'm misunderstanding you. If such a "training" program existed it would be an even worse commentary on the NFL owners.

Firstly, it makes a terrible assumption that the already Black coaches have to be better trained for a job they already qualify for.

Secondly, the mere existence of such training basically not only concedes racial bias against Black coaches, but it panders to their bias by telling, again, already qualified Black candidates, that they must certify themselves to being overqualified in order to be even considered comparable to white candidates.

Lastly, the mere fact that such a drastic proposal is even advanced in the first place speak loud volumes about the strength of NFL owners bias against Black coaches. For me, the proposal itself is irrelevant. It's why the proposal even has to be uttered.

You are misunderstanding me and I think it's on purpose just like the previous responses. I never said that they need to be overqualified to get a job. I'm saying it wouldn't hurt to have that program and having more minority coaches is the goal, correct? So why is saying we should promote them controversial?

I'm trying to find a solution when there isn't a clear path forward. I'm tired of my ideas to be nitpicked and my words being changed because three or more of you want to change this discussion to one of hatred and all about "institutional racism" instead of seeking a solution.

It is a joke that this had to be proposed. It's embarrassing for the NFL and black people alike. How would you feel being hired but knowing you might have been hired just because your team gets a higher draft pick compensation? That's not fair to any coach to deal with.

So as I've asked my last few posts... what would you do?

Cause I've posted a list of potential minority head coaches with roughly 15-20 spots I feel aren't secure long term. But it's not a long enough list for me to say it's all racism at work here. That not only gives no solution but creates "us vs them" mindsets that are clearly evident in just they way I've been responded to after being very respectful myself.

I only care about 1. Equality (not equity) and 2. Finding a way to help minorities get jobs Maybe it's like someone else said... it starts from the bottom up with lower level coaching positions, maybe they can enforce a stricter Rooney rule to allow them to get more chances in their young careers. I see the loopholes and think they should do about
it like what I already proposed.

But I would love to hear some ideas or solutions.

If you and others want to talk more about a framework of racism being the sole reason for these non hires without evidence or solutions while pretending I even care for one second about race... You've made up your own mind and I'm done here.

When you said:

You help minority coaches become overqualified then they maybe already are compared to other candidates. I don't see how saying helping minority coaches improve... regardless of their ability to coach already, is a bad thing.

. . . it sure looked to me like you were advocating for having a training program for already qualified Black coaches. But my apologies if that wasn't what you were meaning to say.

Now, what would I do? I'm so glad you asked that question:

• Remove tax exemption
• Have anti-trust laws truly enforced
• Increase congressional oversite of ALL major sports player-ownership relations, in particular make all labor agreements subject to congressional approval
• Make NFL front office and HC hiring subject to EEOC standard
• Mandate that HC jobs go only to NFL coordinators and former NFL HC's
• Quotas – fine and take away draft picks for organizations that has a FO and coaching staff below 30% African-Americans (excluding women)
• Institute a HC hiring advisory board that owners be mandated to consult when considering HC candidates (paid for by owners, but staffed and administered by current NFL vets of at least 7 years and player reps)
• Strengthen the Rooney Rule to include coordinators: 1 Black candidate for all coordinator positions and increase it to 2 for HC candidates

Remember, you asked

Look, I cannot stand that NFL owners have a blatant bias against Black coaches. I have long despised how NFL owners are allowed to operate as modern day slave masters. So long as they are allowed to operate as they do Black NFL coaches will continue to find it difficult to become head coaches in the NFL, no matter how overqualified they may be.

The Rooney Rule was established in 2003. Four years later in 2007 the SB was being played by 2 Black HC's, a year that had 6 Black HC's. Since then the number of Black HC's have steadily declined. Who among us think that's an accident? Did Black coaches somehow forget how to coach? Massive change has to come in order to force equality. Now, I don't really think that the latest proposal will do much to bring that about, but I'll take it. In any event NFL owners aren't going to change unless they are forced to. Period!!

Took me a while to respond I'm in charge of moving our company within the next 4 months haven't had much time.

I just need you and others stop changing my words to fit some anti-black narrative and we're good. I don't want to keep defending a position that I don't hold, so this is the last time I will.

You said, "make already qualified Black coaches overqualified in order to get a fair comparison to other candidates?... it makes a terrible assumption that the already Black coaches have to be better trained for a job they already qualify for."

All I've said so far was that we could start a program to develop minority coaches. I literally used the word "overqualified" which admits some candidates might already be qualified. I never said they HAVE to be overqualified. In what world do you actually see your comments as a fair summary of my words?

You also said, "If such a "training" program existed it would be an even worse commentary on the NFL owners".

So let me get this straight... you want to criticize my idea of promoting minority candidates but forcing teams to have a certain amount of coaches based solely on skin color is ideal according to you?

Honestly, I see that logic extremely inconsistent but I want to make this clear. I don't care that we see differently on this issue. I'm glad you posted some ideas and even though I can already tell you that I agree with some and disagree on others,.. this is where the discussion should go. Because before I get into any more specifics on those ideas you cannot honestly say that I've tried to be anti-minority on any of my points.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by ChicoCorrales:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/05/21/marvin-lewis-offended-nfl-offering-incentive-minority-african-american-hires/5236448002/

+ Show all quotes

Just another example of a qualified minority coach that never got a shot or fair chance, oh wait.

Thats like using Eminem to prove that racism doesn't exist.

It would be more like Eminem being offended if the recording industry proposed quotas for caucasian rappers.

Where did Marvin Lewis get his money? Maybe from being an NFL head coach? Would you take him more seriously if he had blown his money on a gambling habit and was living in a box? Surreal

Edit: A better way to say it is this: So Marvin Lewis being a successful african-american head coach disqualifies him from commenting credibly on the issue of african-american head coaches?

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by ChicoCorrales:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/05/21/marvin-lewis-offended-nfl-offering-incentive-minority-african-american-hires/5236448002/

+ Show all quotes
Just another example of a qualified minority coach that never got a shot or fair chance, oh wait.

Thats like using Eminem to prove that racism doesn't exist.

It would be more like Eminem being offended if the recording industry proposed quotas for caucasian rappers.

Where did Marvin Lewis get his money? Maybe from being an NFL head coach? Would you take him more seriously if he had blown his money on a gambling habit and was living in a box? Surreal

Edit: A better way to say it is this: So Marvin Lewis being a successful african-american head coach disqualifies him from commenting credibly on the issue of african-american head coaches?

I want to hear from the coaches that got passed up, why no one interviewing any of them?

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by ChicoCorrales:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/05/21/marvin-lewis-offended-nfl-offering-incentive-minority-african-american-hires/5236448002/

Just another example of a qualified minority coach that never got a shot or fair chance, oh wait.

+ Show all quotes
Thats like using Eminem to prove that racism doesn't exist.

It would be more like Eminem being offended if the recording industry proposed quotas for caucasian rappers.

Where did Marvin Lewis get his money? Maybe from being an NFL head coach? Would you take him more seriously if he had blown his money on a gambling habit and was living in a box? Surreal

Edit: A better way to say it is this: So Marvin Lewis being a successful african-american head coach disqualifies him from commenting credibly on the issue of african-american head coaches?

I want to hear from the coaches that got passed up, why no one interviewing any of them?

Two possibilities:

1) No NFL coach (former or present) is willing to go on record saying they were denied a job because of racism because they fear the repercussions or...

2) No reporter can find an NFL coach (past or present) who thinks racism in coaching hires is a problem.

Right now there's only 2 African American offensive coordinators so good luck thinking this will change without the league stepping in. It's an offensive league, everyone wants that qb whisperer like Shanny. Whatever they do they really need to look at the ranks in general and not just the head coaching spot.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Right now there's only 2 African American offensive coordinators so good luck thinking this will change without the league stepping in. It's an offensive league, everyone wants that qb whisperer like Shanny. Whatever they do they really need to look at the ranks in general and not just the head coaching spot.

This. What more can Bieniemy do? Lafleur and Kingsbury are getting hired with below average resumes. While a guy running a top odfense gets nothing. Even his predeccessor with less success got a HC gig. And college football is even worse.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by ChicoCorrales:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/05/21/marvin-lewis-offended-nfl-offering-incentive-minority-african-american-hires/5236448002/

+ Show all quotes

Just another example of a qualified minority coach that never got a shot or fair chance, oh wait.

Thats like using Eminem to prove that racism doesn't exist.

You missed the irony, lol.

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Right now there's only 2 African American offensive coordinators so good luck thinking this will change without the league stepping in. It's an offensive league, everyone wants that qb whisperer like Shanny. Whatever they do they really need to look at the ranks in general and not just the head coaching spot.

This. What more can Bieniemy do? Lafleur and Kingsbury are getting hired with below average resumes. While a guy running a top odfense gets nothing. Even his predeccessor with less success got a HC gig. And college football is even worse.

Why did you limit it to just offensive coordinators? Where's the entire list of nfl coaches all the way accross the board? There's only 32 spots available and that was only 28 not too long ago and a pool of hundreds of candidates. If the pool is 70% minority and all the head coaches hired are out of the 30% non minority, then absolutely there's a major issue, but when the pool is 30% minority and then you add the element of which coaching staff is perceived as most successful, im sure those percentages go down even further.
Are you saying Salah won't have an opportunity to coach? Bieniemy won't get an opportunity?
NFL owners want to win, they put money before race. So what's the reason there's not more minority coaches? You're saying it's racism? Where is the racism coming from that's not hiring minorities?

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Idk if that's the answer, but something needs to change. A league that's mostly black players, barely has any black GMs or HCs? Doesn't make sense

Maybe because the skill set for being a player, head coach and GM are different? When are they going to start giving incentives to bring in asian or hispanic players?