NFL to propose incentives to hire minorities

imagine justifying how not signing Asian RBs or paying to sign more white players, is the same thing as not hiring black GMs and HCs, when they've already played in the league and most are current position coaches.

probably the same people who thought that there wasnt bias before the 90s about a black QB. congrats at being awesome at mental gymnastics.

good talk though, but thats enough for me.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

imagine justifying how not signing Asian RBs or paying to sign more white players, is the same thing as not hiring black GMs and HCs, when they've already played in the league and most are current position coaches.

probably the same people who thought that there wasnt bias before the 90s about a black QB. congrats at being awesome at mental gymnastics.

good talk though, but thats enough for me.

Racism exits. It exists in every part of life including football. But I think the disconnect is that you're saying a world where equal representation of races among coaches is ideal.

The only thing that should matter is are you the best at your job.

That's true equality.

Now... I don't know how many people are affected enough to not get interviews and jobs themselves. I don't know how anyone could know how many or even prove which candidates today are truly being passed over based on racism alone.

But I also don't think the solution is to put in a rule to bribe teams to hire minority candidates.

But I also don't think racism isn't an issue. It's just how much you of an issue where you and I might disagree.

So when someone brings in the top of Asian running backs... it's not that their are equal amount of them compared to potential black coaches.

It's that the belief that equity is ideal is bogus... just like how bogus the Asian claim was to make.

I personally would like to see more diversity in coaching and front office positions. I was a big supporter of Kaepernick and I wouldn't put a limit on what anyone could do based solely off something as meaningless as skin color.

But somehow I already know my hope for equality will be seen as racism for people who believe in equity.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Bill Walsh pushes for more minority opportunities.

He would probably be disappointed in how little it has improved .

That's a really good point and it shows that making rules or trying to force changes are really hard and don't often work. If it's truly a racial bias thing you aren't going to change someone's mind with a rule. I still come back to the money. A lot of the best and smartest players are black and they often get paid the most. They don't need the jobs after they're done playing.

Bill Walsh was a forward thinker and knew that institutionalized racism was present and he couldn't sit back and make excuses for the behavior so he created the first minority coaching program and tried to help a lot of people overcome racism. Rooney also tried to address this, but front offices made a mockery of his rule so now comes the unthinkable hard push.

Kap saw this too, and we all saw his response to racism.

This may not be the best way to move forward but hey, you have to keep pushing until racist behaviors are frowned upon in all sectors of life. Those that want to perpetuate racism can kindly leave my country. Think about how much African Americans have done for this country in free labor alone? Built this country from the ground up! And today African Americans are still treated as second class citizens.

When you hear about African Americans you never hear about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT5Ks1TWF68

or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJbF9SGB3Yk

We just hear the propaganda about African Americans and crime, this data is created by the same people that promote institutional racism and it is fake news. Most African American people would be just fine if you took away the racism that limits opportunities. But until then...

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
imagine justifying how not signing Asian RBs or paying to sign more white players, is the same thing as not hiring black GMs and HCs, when they've already played in the league and most are current position coaches.

probably the same people who thought that there wasnt bias before the 90s about a black QB. congrats at being awesome at mental gymnastics.

good talk though, but thats enough for me.

Racism exits. It exists in every part of life including football. But I think the disconnect is that you're saying a world where equal representation of races among coaches is ideal.

The only thing that should matter is are you the best at your job.

That's true equality.

Now... I don't know how many people are affected enough to not get interviews and jobs themselves. I don't know how anyone could know how many or even prove which candidates today are truly being passed over based on racism alone.

But I also don't think the solution is to put in a rule to bribe teams to hire minority candidates.

But I also don't think racism isn't an issue. It's just how much you of an issue where you and I might disagree.

So when someone brings in the top of Asian running backs... it's not that their are equal amount of them compared to potential black coaches.

It's that the belief that equity is ideal is bogus... just like how bogus the Asian claim was to make.

I personally would like to see more diversity in coaching and front office positions. I was a big supporter of Kaepernick and I wouldn't put a limit on what anyone could do based solely off something as meaningless as skin color.

But somehow I already know my hope for equality will be seen as racism for people who believe in equity.

Seems like you are saying racism is here, it's not good but don't bring it up and don't do anything about it?

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Seems like you are saying racism is here, it's not good but don't bring it up and don't do anything about it?

That's cause you're trying to create a narrative instead of actually finding out my position.

I've already said in this thread that I think we could start a program to help minority coaches get noticed and more qualified. The NFL has plenty of resources to make that happen. I think the league should probably be involved somehow observing coaching hires to investigate if their is any evidence of racial bias. Being that there are so few head coaching positions... I don't see how that would be a bad idea.

I believe any profession should strive to have equal representation of races... especially ones with a majority like black people do in the NFL.

That's not the same as saying having a majority white front office is a bad thing or that it is proof of mainly racism alone.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

That's cause you're trying to create a narrative instead of actually finding out my position.

I've already said in this thread that I think we could start a program to help minority coaches get noticed and more qualified. The NFL has plenty of resources to make that happen. I think the league should probably be involved somehow observing coaching hires to investigate if their is any evidence of racial bias. Being that there are so few head coaching positions... I don't see how that would be a bad idea.

I believe any profession should strive to have equal representation of races... especially ones with a majority like black people do in the NFL.

That's not the same as saying having a majority white front office is a bad thing or that it is proof of mainly racism alone.

FWIW your initial statement didn't come off like what was insinuated at all

lol someone made the asian reference as a joke and someone is going hard with that narrative here lolololol

also I'm asian so I'm not offended if anyone cared lolol...

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
Seems like you are saying racism is here, it's not good but don't bring it up and don't do anything about it?

That's cause you're trying to create a narrative instead of actually finding out my position.

I've already said in this thread that I think we could start a program to help minority coaches get noticed and more qualified. The NFL has plenty of resources to make that happen. I think the league should probably be involved somehow observing coaching hires to investigate if their is any evidence of racial bias. Being that there are so few head coaching positions... I don't see how that would be a bad idea.

I believe any profession should strive to have equal representation of races... especially ones with a majority like black people do in the NFL.

That's not the same as saying having a majority white front office is a bad thing or that it is proof of mainly racism alone.

Minority coaches are more than qualified, ending racist practices would simply provide a fair opportunity.

This is a microcosm of institutionalized racism in our society being played out in the NFL. The NFL should be more responsible when you look at their workforce.

Your assumption that African Americans need to be trained up in order to do certain jobs is funny, because when slavery was alive and well in the United States, there was a %100 employment rate for African Americans. Hence how there are many lower level opportunities abound, just don't try to climb the latter. Successful African Americans are most often given or have taken opportunities and ran with them, you would have more of this if there were more opportunities for African Americans in this society.

Oh, and I didn't create the narrative on racism. Just remember how it all went down...

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Seems like you are saying racism is here, it's not good but don't bring it up and don't do anything about it?

That's cause you're trying to create a narrative instead of actually finding out my position.

I've already said in this thread that I think we could start a program to help minority coaches get noticed and more qualified. The NFL has plenty of resources to make that happen. I think the league should probably be involved somehow observing coaching hires to investigate if their is any evidence of racial bias. Being that there are so few head coaching positions... I don't see how that would be a bad idea.

I believe any profession should strive to have equal representation of races... especially ones with a majority like black people do in the NFL.

That's not the same as saying having a majority white front office is a bad thing or that it is proof of mainly racism alone.

Minority coaches are more than qualified, ending racist practices would simply provide a fair opportunity.

This is a microcosm of institutionalized racism in our society being played out in the NFL. The NFL should be more responsible when you look at their workforce.

Your assumption that African Americans need to be trained up in order to do certain jobs is funny, because when slavery was alive and well in the United States, there was a %100 employment rate for African Americans. Hence how there are many lower level opportunities abound, just don't try to climb the latter. Successful African Americans are most often given or have taken opportunities and ran with them, you would have more of this if there were more opportunities for African Americans in this society.

Oh, and I didn't create the narrative on racism. Just remember how it all went down...

What's ACTUALLY funny is you're trying to change what I said so you can argue against a position I don't hold. It's embarrassing so just stop.

What I meant was that the NFL could start a program promoting and training minority coaches. I never said they weren't qualified already because obviously we already have good NFL coaches, head coaches, and front office members on this team and throughout NFL history.

You might think that's not enough but you also haven't given anything tangible to work with other then try to give me a history lesson and try to make my words look racist when they're not.

What would you do? Because other then Pheonix's ideas I haven't heard much from the pro bribing draft pick camp.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Only if you believe that playing football professionally and coaching requires the same skillset.




Look at a guy like Belichick. He was studying film, doing scouting reports and drawing up gameplans as a teenager. The same way you develop to be a QB, a RB or a WR, he was getting developed to be a coach at a very young age. Bill Walsh was coaching high school teams to state championships before he was 30. Look at the coaches in the SB. Shanahan grew up immersed in football and was developing to be a coach long before he entered the league. He was an NFL OC before he turned 30 and still had to wait about a decade before he became a HC. By the time Andy Reid turned 30, he had been coaching in college for nearly a decade.



I think the NFL is making a mistake with a top down model instead of a bottom up one. If you really want more minority head coaches then you have to start developing them at a younger age. You need to incentivize recruiting for bright, young minority coaches that are in the college game. Then you setup a program to develop those coaches, so that you wind up with more better quality head coaching candidates period.



Right now, each year you may have one or two star candidates and the rest are varying degrees of meh. Most head coaches bust.



The league clearly is favoring offense but where are all the great minority offensive minds? The Shanahans, McVays, Reids and Sean Paytons? Let a minority coach be a playcaller for a great NFL offenses and teams will be kicking down his doors to get him hired.


Instead of silly pandering schemes, the NFL should be pushing hard to get teams to go after coaches like Josh Gattis. He's a young, well regarded offensive coach that has been coaching in college for over a decade. Get that guy on an NFL staff and give him a shot at becoming an NFL OC at some point. If he thrives there, the sky is the limit for him.






TL;DR. If you want more minority head coaches you need more minority offensive quality control coaches, more minority QB coaches and more minority offensive coordinators. You have to build from the bottom up. Hire smart young minority coaches from college and get a pipeline going.

Byron Leftwich is offensive coord for the Bucs and calls the plays. If he does well with Brady he may get some notice.

Hire at ground level such as unpaid (or very little pay) interns. This is where the foundation for the next coaching and managerial openings start. You still have to deal with the Good Old Boy network that owns the league, that is another matter.

The #1 priority of all teams are to get the best candidates or the cheapest.

Race of their employees is the last thing these teams are worried about. If it was, we would see all white teams.

Only the color Green matters to them.

Originally posted by 9ers4u:
Byron Leftwich is offensive coord for the Bucs and calls the plays. If he does well with Brady he may get some notice.

Leftwich should get a shot but I think Eric Bieniemy should be at the top of the list. Certain teams need to be looked into for only hiring friends of friends who happen to be white... cause I don't think the 49ers are one of the teams that are averse to hiring minority coaches but I'm not naive to believe that it never happens across 32 teams.

Kyle Shannahan, Bill Bellicheck, Sean Peyton, Pete Carroll, Sean Mcvay, Mike Tomlin, Anthony Lynn, John Harbaugh, Andy Reid, Brian Flores, Ron Rivera, Doug Peterson.

To me, there are 20 head coaching jobs without either a solid head coach or a minority head coach or both. The NFL should focus on those other teams and investigate their hiring process.

Originally posted by Chief:
No reason to earn your way into a job.

Oh, you mean like Kliff Kingsbury, Matt Rhule, and Zac Taylor have? Now, I'm not saying that I agree with this specific incentive proposal, but let us not kid ourselves and think that NFL coaching hiring is based off merit or past accomplishments. If that were the case half of the NFL coaches wouldn't have NFL jobs as HC's, and there would be lot more Black HC's. Lets face it, there are men who are NFL head coaches who frankly have done nothing that make you think "oh, I see why they hired him".

And think what you will about the proposal but at least the discussion is being had, as it should. The lack of Black NFL HC's is a glaringly shameful commentary on the league, in particular the owners.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
Seems like you are saying racism is here, it's not good but don't bring it up and don't do anything about it?

That's cause you're trying to create a narrative instead of actually finding out my position.

I've already said in this thread that I think we could start a program to help minority coaches get noticed and more qualified. The NFL has plenty of resources to make that happen. I think the league should probably be involved somehow observing coaching hires to investigate if their is any evidence of racial bias. Being that there are so few head coaching positions... I don't see how that would be a bad idea.

I believe any profession should strive to have equal representation of races... especially ones with a majority like black people do in the NFL.

That's not the same as saying having a majority white front office is a bad thing or that it is proof of mainly racism alone.

Minority coaches are more than qualified, ending racist practices would simply provide a fair opportunity.

This is a microcosm of institutionalized racism in our society being played out in the NFL. The NFL should be more responsible when you look at their workforce.

Your assumption that African Americans need to be trained up in order to do certain jobs is funny, because when slavery was alive and well in the United States, there was a %100 employment rate for African Americans. Hence how there are many lower level opportunities abound, just don't try to climb the latter. Successful African Americans are most often given or have taken opportunities and ran with them, you would have more of this if there were more opportunities for African Americans in this society.

Oh, and I didn't create the narrative on racism. Just remember how it all went down...

What's ACTUALLY funny is you're trying to change what I said so you can argue against a position I don't hold. It's embarrassing so just stop.

What I meant was that the NFL could start a program promoting and training minority coaches. I never said they weren't qualified already because obviously we already have good NFL coaches, head coaches, and front office members on this team and throughout NFL history.

You might think that's not enough but you also haven't given anything tangible to work with other then try to give me a history lesson and try to make my words look racist when they're not.

What would you do? Because other then Pheonix's ideas I haven't heard much from the pro bribing draft pick camp.

Before I go in on the bold I'd like to get a better understanding on what you mean by "training minority coaches".

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Before I go in on the bold I'd like to get a better understanding on what you mean by "training minority coaches".

Believe he means the guys looking for their first gig in coaching. Not the current ones that are already employed.