NFL to propose incentives to hire minorities

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Omg dude you're slandering me the same way Chicago did. Exact same thing.

I never said they don't work hard. You're picking and choosing parts of sentences of what I'm saying because you know you have no real answers to my point cause I'm right.

To answer your question... ideally I wouldn't have any Rooney rule. But they exist and affirmative action exists and the best thing to do now is promote minorities like I already said and hopefully someday we won't need those things.

It's true that is my preference is I want to have more black head coaches and GMs for reasons I've already given...

But it's also true that there isn't something wrong with having disproportionate ratio of races in those positions if the best people are getting the job. Period.

Anyone who disagrees with that doesn't believe in equality.

I don't have all the answers because it's actually a really complicated issue.

You seem to think it's just racism and that's fine. But I just really don't think it's that simple at all.

Guarantee they go after that statement right there. Lol

What exactly do you mean by THEY?!

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Omg dude you're slandering me the same way Chicago did. Exact same thing.

I never said they don't work hard. You're picking and choosing parts of sentences of what I'm saying because you know you have no real answers to my point cause I'm right.

To answer your question... ideally I wouldn't have any Rooney rule. But they exist and affirmative action exists and the best thing to do now is promote minorities like I already said and hopefully someday we won't need those things.

It's true that is my preference is I want to have more black head coaches and GMs for reasons I've already given...

But it's also true that there isn't something wrong with having disproportionate ratio of races in those positions if the best people are getting the job. Period.

Anyone who disagrees with that doesn't believe in equality.

I don't have all the answers because it's actually a really complicated issue.

You seem to think it's just racism and that's fine. But I just really don't think it's that simple at all.

Guarantee they go after that statement right there. Lol

What exactly do you mean by THEY?!

Lol oh s**t

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
So let me get this straight: make already qualified Black coaches overqualified in order to get a fair comparison to other candidates? And you don't see the fundamental absurdity with that position? I truly hope I'm misunderstanding you. If such a "training" program existed it would be an even worse commentary on the NFL owners.

Firstly, it makes a terrible assumption that the already Black coaches have to be better trained for a job they already qualify for.

Secondly, the mere existence of such training basically not only concedes racial bias against Black coaches, but it panders to their bias by telling, again, already qualified Black candidates, that they must certify themselves to being overqualified in order to be even considered comparable to white candidates.

Lastly, the mere fact that such a drastic proposal is even advanced in the first place speak loud volumes about the strength of NFL owners bias against Black coaches. For me, the proposal itself is irrelevant. It's why the proposal even has to be uttered.

Do you really think this post is a fair characterization of Waterbear's comments and intent?

As for the bolded above... who makes the assistant coaching hires? The owners, GMs, or the head coaches?

Do sports tend to lead or lag the general public in terms of racial acceptance?

How many years of coaching does it take for the average assistant to get a meaningful NFL gig (not trainer or glorified waterboy)

It seems to me... my opinion/observation... that head coaches are the ones make the vast majority of the coordinator/assistant choices, and I just don't see any evidence of some systemic (or even slightly common) racist attitude existing there. Why then are minorities not represented according to their makeup of the general population?

Is it possible that the NFL-ready coaching pipeline hasn't yet reached the demographic makeup of the general population?

Is there a non-racist possibility that it never will? (Not saying this is true, but who knows, maybe there is something about the "WASP" background that makes them want to be career coaches in greater proportion than their numbers in the general population?)

I don't know, but why jump straight to racism being the major reason?

The NFL starting a program to help fill the pipeline with more NFL-ready coaches doesn't imply any sort of existing racial bias. Maybe there is some, but there are other explanations out there.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
Seems like you are saying racism is here, it's not good but don't bring it up and don't do anything about it?

That's cause you're trying to create a narrative instead of actually finding out my position.

I've already said in this thread that I think we could start a program to help minority coaches get noticed and more qualified. The NFL has plenty of resources to make that happen. I think the league should probably be involved somehow observing coaching hires to investigate if their is any evidence of racial bias. Being that there are so few head coaching positions... I don't see how that would be a bad idea.

I believe any profession should strive to have equal representation of races... especially ones with a majority like black people do in the NFL.

That's not the same as saying having a majority white front office is a bad thing or that it is proof of mainly racism alone.

Minority coaches are more than qualified, ending racist practices would simply provide a fair opportunity.

This is a microcosm of institutionalized racism in our society being played out in the NFL. The NFL should be more responsible when you look at their workforce.

Your assumption that African Americans need to be trained up in order to do certain jobs is funny, because when slavery was alive and well in the United States, there was a %100 employment rate for African Americans. Hence how there are many lower level opportunities abound, just don't try to climb the latter. Successful African Americans are most often given or have taken opportunities and ran with them, you would have more of this if there were more opportunities for African Americans in this society.

Oh, and I didn't create the narrative on racism. Just remember how it all went down...

What's ACTUALLY funny is you're trying to change what I said so you can argue against a position I don't hold. It's embarrassing so just stop.

What I meant was that the NFL could start a program promoting and training minority coaches. I never said they weren't qualified already because obviously we already have good NFL coaches, head coaches, and front office members on this team and throughout NFL history.

You might think that's not enough but you also haven't given anything tangible to work with other then try to give me a history lesson and try to make my words look racist when they're not.

What would you do? Because other then Pheonix's ideas I haven't heard much from the pro bribing draft pick camp.

Before I go in on the bold I'd like to get a better understanding on what you mean by "training minority coaches".

Exactly what it sounds like. You help minority coaches become overqualified then they maybe already are compared to other candidates. I don't see how saying helping minority coaches improve... regardless of their ability to coach already, is a bad thing.

Cause to me... the only thing that matters is the quality of coaching. Bribing owners to hire minorities does not incentivize them to hire the best candidates.

And that's a problem in my opinion.

So let me get this straight: make already qualified Black coaches overqualified in order to get a fair comparison to other candidates? And you don't see the fundamental absurdity with that position? I truly hope I'm misunderstanding you. If such a "training" program existed it would be an even worse commentary on the NFL owners.

Firstly, it makes a terrible assumption that the already Black coaches have to be better trained for a job they already qualify for.

Secondly, the mere existence of such training basically not only concedes racial bias against Black coaches, but it panders to their bias by telling, again, already qualified Black candidates, that they must certify themselves to being overqualified in order to be even considered comparable to white candidates.

Lastly, the mere fact that such a drastic proposal is even advanced in the first place speak loud volumes about the strength of NFL owners bias against Black coaches. For me, the proposal itself is irrelevant. It's why the proposal even has to be uttered.

You are misunderstanding me and I think it's on purpose just like the previous responses. I never said that they need to be overqualified to get a job. I'm saying it wouldn't hurt to have that program and having more minority coaches is the goal, correct? So why is saying we should promote them controversial?

I'm trying to find a solution when there isn't a clear path forward. I'm tired of my ideas to be nitpicked and my words being changed because three or more of you want to change this discussion to one of hatred and all about "institutional racism" instead of seeking a solution.

It is a joke that this had to be proposed. It's embarrassing for the NFL and black people alike. How would you feel being hired but knowing you might have been hired just because your team gets a higher draft pick compensation? That's not fair to any coach to deal with.

So as I've asked my last few posts... what would you do?

Cause I've posted a list of potential minority head coaches with roughly 15-20 spots I feel aren't secure long term. But it's not a long enough list for me to say it's all racism at work here. That not only gives no solution but creates "us vs them" mindsets that are clearly evident in just they way I've been responded to after being very respectful myself.

I only care about 1. Equality (not equity) and 2. Finding a way to help minorities get jobs Maybe it's like someone else said... it starts from the bottom up with lower level coaching positions, maybe they can enforce a stricter Rooney rule to allow them to get more chances in their young careers. I see the loopholes and think they should do about
it like what I already proposed.

But I would love to hear some ideas or solutions.

If you and others want to talk more about a framework of racism being the sole reason for these non hires without evidence or solutions while pretending I even care for one second about race... You've made up your own mind and I'm done here.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

So let me get this straight: make already qualified Black coaches overqualified in order to get a fair comparison to other candidates? And you don't see the fundamental absurdity with that position? I truly hope I'm misunderstanding you. If such a "training" program existed it would be an even worse commentary on the NFL owners.

Firstly, it makes a terrible assumption that the already Black coaches have to be better trained for a job they already qualify for.

Secondly, the mere existence of such training basically not only concedes racial bias against Black coaches, but it panders to their bias by telling, again, already qualified Black candidates, that they must certify themselves to being overqualified in order to be even considered comparable to white candidates.

Lastly, the mere fact that such a drastic proposal is even advanced in the first place speak loud volumes about the strength of NFL owners bias against Black coaches. For me, the proposal itself is irrelevant. It's why the proposal even has to be uttered.

Do you really think this post is a fair characterization of Waterbear's comments and intent?

As for the bolded above... who makes the assistant coaching hires? The owners, GMs, or the head coaches?

Do sports tend to lead or lag the general public in terms of racial acceptance?

How many years of coaching does it take for the average assistant to get a meaningful NFL gig (not trainer or glorified waterboy)

It seems to me... my opinion/observation... that head coaches are the ones make the vast majority of the coordinator/assistant choices, and I just don't see any evidence of some systemic (or even slightly common) racist attitude existing there. Why then are minorities not represented according to their makeup of the general population?

Is it possible that the NFL-ready coaching pipeline hasn't yet reached the demographic makeup of the general population?

Is there a non-racist possibility that it never will? (Not saying this is true, but who knows, maybe there is something about the "WASP" background that makes them want to be career coaches in greater proportion than their numbers in the general population?)

I don't know, but why jump straight to racism being the major reason?

The NFL starting a program to help fill the pipeline with more NFL-ready coaches doesn't imply any sort of existing racial bias. Maybe there is some, but there are other explanations out there.

I don't know, maybe due to how African Americans were brought here as slaves (over came that) and are now relying on the same people that brought them here to work for free as slaves, to now be fair and impartial?

Then you see numbers like the NFL player make-up vs Management and coaching positions available, which lead to a Rooney Rule.

hmm, why would you have a problem with a policy or person being outed as racist if they behave as such?

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
So let me get this straight: make already qualified Black coaches overqualified in order to get a fair comparison to other candidates? And you don't see the fundamental absurdity with that position? I truly hope I'm misunderstanding you. If such a "training" program existed it would be an even worse commentary on the NFL owners.

Firstly, it makes a terrible assumption that the already Black coaches have to be better trained for a job they already qualify for.

Secondly, the mere existence of such training basically not only concedes racial bias against Black coaches, but it panders to their bias by telling, again, already qualified Black candidates, that they must certify themselves to being overqualified in order to be even considered comparable to white candidates.

Lastly, the mere fact that such a drastic proposal is even advanced in the first place speak loud volumes about the strength of NFL owners bias against Black coaches. For me, the proposal itself is irrelevant. It's why the proposal even has to be uttered.

Do you really think this post is a fair characterization of Waterbear's comments and intent?

As for the bolded above... who makes the assistant coaching hires? The owners, GMs, or the head coaches?

Do sports tend to lead or lag the general public in terms of racial acceptance?

How many years of coaching does it take for the average assistant to get a meaningful NFL gig (not trainer or glorified waterboy)

It seems to me... my opinion/observation... that head coaches are the ones make the vast majority of the coordinator/assistant choices, and I just don't see any evidence of some systemic (or even slightly common) racist attitude existing there. Why then are minorities not represented according to their makeup of the general population?

Is it possible that the NFL-ready coaching pipeline hasn't yet reached the demographic makeup of the general population?

Is there a non-racist possibility that it never will? (Not saying this is true, but who knows, maybe there is something about the "WASP" background that makes them want to be career coaches in greater proportion than their numbers in the general population?)

I don't know, but why jump straight to racism being the major reason?

The NFL starting a program to help fill the pipeline with more NFL-ready coaches doesn't imply any sort of existing racial bias. Maybe there is some, but there are other explanations out there.

I don't know, maybe due to how African Americans were brought here as slaves (over came that) and are now relying on the same people that brought them here to work for free as slaves, to now be fair and impartial?

Then you see numbers like the NFL player make-up vs Management and coaching positions available, which lead to a Rooney Rule.

hmm, why would you have a problem with a policy or person being outed as racist if they behave as such?

Tragic, but Good read
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/when-the-slave-traders-were-african-11568991595

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
Seems like you are saying racism is here, it's not good but don't bring it up and don't do anything about it?

That's cause you're trying to create a narrative instead of actually finding out my position.

I've already said in this thread that I think we could start a program to help minority coaches get noticed and more qualified. The NFL has plenty of resources to make that happen. I think the league should probably be involved somehow observing coaching hires to investigate if their is any evidence of racial bias. Being that there are so few head coaching positions... I don't see how that would be a bad idea.

I believe any profession should strive to have equal representation of races... especially ones with a majority like black people do in the NFL.

That's not the same as saying having a majority white front office is a bad thing or that it is proof of mainly racism alone.

Minority coaches are more than qualified, ending racist practices would simply provide a fair opportunity.

This is a microcosm of institutionalized racism in our society being played out in the NFL. The NFL should be more responsible when you look at their workforce.

Your assumption that African Americans need to be trained up in order to do certain jobs is funny, because when slavery was alive and well in the United States, there was a %100 employment rate for African Americans. Hence how there are many lower level opportunities abound, just don't try to climb the latter. Successful African Americans are most often given or have taken opportunities and ran with them, you would have more of this if there were more opportunities for African Americans in this society.

Oh, and I didn't create the narrative on racism. Just remember how it all went down...

What's ACTUALLY funny is you're trying to change what I said so you can argue against a position I don't hold. It's embarrassing so just stop.

What I meant was that the NFL could start a program promoting and training minority coaches. I never said they weren't qualified already because obviously we already have good NFL coaches, head coaches, and front office members on this team and throughout NFL history.

You might think that's not enough but you also haven't given anything tangible to work with other then try to give me a history lesson and try to make my words look racist when they're not.

What would you do? Because other then Pheonix's ideas I haven't heard much from the pro bribing draft pick camp.

Before I go in on the bold I'd like to get a better understanding on what you mean by "training minority coaches".

Exactly what it sounds like. You help minority coaches become overqualified then they maybe already are compared to other candidates. I don't see how saying helping minority coaches improve... regardless of their ability to coach already, is a bad thing.

Cause to me... the only thing that matters is the quality of coaching. Bribing owners to hire minorities does not incentivize them to hire the best candidates.

And that's a problem in my opinion.

So let me get this straight: make already qualified Black coaches overqualified in order to get a fair comparison to other candidates? And you don't see the fundamental absurdity with that position? I truly hope I'm misunderstanding you. If such a "training" program existed it would be an even worse commentary on the NFL owners.

Firstly, it makes a terrible assumption that the already Black coaches have to be better trained for a job they already qualify for.

Secondly, the mere existence of such training basically not only concedes racial bias against Black coaches, but it panders to their bias by telling, again, already qualified Black candidates, that they must certify themselves to being overqualified in order to be even considered comparable to white candidates.

Lastly, the mere fact that such a drastic proposal is even advanced in the first place speak loud volumes about the strength of NFL owners bias against Black coaches. For me, the proposal itself is irrelevant. It's why the proposal even has to be uttered.

You are misunderstanding me and I think it's on purpose just like the previous responses. I never said that they need to be overqualified to get a job. I'm saying it wouldn't hurt to have that program and having more minority coaches is the goal, correct? So why is saying we should promote them controversial?

I'm trying to find a solution when there isn't a clear path forward. I'm tired of my ideas to be nitpicked and my words being changed because three or more of you want to change this discussion to one of hatred and all about "institutional racism" instead of seeking a solution.

It is a joke that this had to be proposed. It's embarrassing for the NFL and black people alike. How would you feel being hired but knowing you might have been hired just because your team gets a higher draft pick compensation? That's not fair to any coach to deal with.

So as I've asked my last few posts... what would you do?

Cause I've posted a list of potential minority head coaches with roughly 15-20 spots I feel aren't secure long term. But it's not a long enough list for me to say it's all racism at work here. That not only gives no solution but creates "us vs them" mindsets that are clearly evident in just they way I've been responded to after being very respectful myself.

I only care about 1. Equality (not equity) and 2. Finding a way to help minorities get jobs Maybe it's like someone else said... it starts from the bottom up with lower level coaching positions, maybe they can enforce a stricter Rooney rule to allow them to get more chances in their young careers. I see the loopholes and think they should do about
it like what I already proposed.

But I would love to hear some ideas or solutions.

If you and others want to talk more about a framework of racism being the sole reason for these non hires without evidence or solutions while pretending I even care for one second about race... You've made up your own mind and I'm done here.

I think your privilege is found in your language, you may not mean to sound the way you do but you clearly stated that: minority's need to work harder then whites in order to succeed. You also said: minority's lacked qualifications.

But of course you never said those things because even after you said them, its not what you meant and since you are the end all be all, and you get to choose what is right and what is wrong, coming from the dominant culture and all I can see how you see yourself as 100% correct.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

So let me get this straight: make already qualified Black coaches overqualified in order to get a fair comparison to other candidates? And you don't see the fundamental absurdity with that position? I truly hope I'm misunderstanding you. If such a "training" program existed it would be an even worse commentary on the NFL owners.

Firstly, it makes a terrible assumption that the already Black coaches have to be better trained for a job they already qualify for.

Secondly, the mere existence of such training basically not only concedes racial bias against Black coaches, but it panders to their bias by telling, again, already qualified Black candidates, that they must certify themselves to being overqualified in order to be even considered comparable to white candidates.

Lastly, the mere fact that such a drastic proposal is even advanced in the first place speak loud volumes about the strength of NFL owners bias against Black coaches. For me, the proposal itself is irrelevant. It's why the proposal even has to be uttered.

Do you really think this post is a fair characterization of Waterbear's comments and intent?

As for the bolded above... who makes the assistant coaching hires? The owners, GMs, or the head coaches?

Do sports tend to lead or lag the general public in terms of racial acceptance?

How many years of coaching does it take for the average assistant to get a meaningful NFL gig (not trainer or glorified waterboy)

It seems to me... my opinion/observation... that head coaches are the ones make the vast majority of the coordinator/assistant choices, and I just don't see any evidence of some systemic (or even slightly common) racist attitude existing there. Why then are minorities not represented according to their makeup of the general population?

Is it possible that the NFL-ready coaching pipeline hasn't yet reached the demographic makeup of the general population?

Is there a non-racist possibility that it never will? (Not saying this is true, but who knows, maybe there is something about the "WASP" background that makes them want to be career coaches in greater proportion than their numbers in the general population?)

I don't know, but why jump straight to racism being the major reason?

The NFL starting a program to help fill the pipeline with more NFL-ready coaches doesn't imply any sort of existing racial bias. Maybe there is some, but there are other explanations out there.

I don't know, maybe due to how African Americans were brought here as slaves (over came that) and are now relying on the same people that brought them here to work for free as slaves, to now be fair and impartial?

Then you see numbers like the NFL player make-up vs Management and coaching positions available, which lead to a Rooney Rule.

hmm, why would you have a problem with a policy or person being outed as racist if they behave as such?

Tragic, but Good read
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/when-the-slave-traders-were-african-11568991595

Nice try, we all know the real history.

But of course the offender gets to control the narrative? Must be true since its on the internet and all...

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
Seems like you are saying racism is here, it's not good but don't bring it up and don't do anything about it?

That's cause you're trying to create a narrative instead of actually finding out my position.

I've already said in this thread that I think we could start a program to help minority coaches get noticed and more qualified. The NFL has plenty of resources to make that happen. I think the league should probably be involved somehow observing coaching hires to investigate if their is any evidence of racial bias. Being that there are so few head coaching positions... I don't see how that would be a bad idea.

I believe any profession should strive to have equal representation of races... especially ones with a majority like black people do in the NFL.

That's not the same as saying having a majority white front office is a bad thing or that it is proof of mainly racism alone.

Minority coaches are more than qualified, ending racist practices would simply provide a fair opportunity.

This is a microcosm of institutionalized racism in our society being played out in the NFL. The NFL should be more responsible when you look at their workforce.

Your assumption that African Americans need to be trained up in order to do certain jobs is funny, because when slavery was alive and well in the United States, there was a %100 employment rate for African Americans. Hence how there are many lower level opportunities abound, just don't try to climb the latter. Successful African Americans are most often given or have taken opportunities and ran with them, you would have more of this if there were more opportunities for African Americans in this society.

Oh, and I didn't create the narrative on racism. Just remember how it all went down...

What's ACTUALLY funny is you're trying to change what I said so you can argue against a position I don't hold. It's embarrassing so just stop.

What I meant was that the NFL could start a program promoting and training minority coaches. I never said they weren't qualified already because obviously we already have good NFL coaches, head coaches, and front office members on this team and throughout NFL history.

You might think that's not enough but you also haven't given anything tangible to work with other then try to give me a history lesson and try to make my words look racist when they're not.

What would you do? Because other then Pheonix's ideas I haven't heard much from the pro bribing draft pick camp.

Before I go in on the bold I'd like to get a better understanding on what you mean by "training minority coaches".

Exactly what it sounds like. You help minority coaches become overqualified then they maybe already are compared to other candidates. I don't see how saying helping minority coaches improve... regardless of their ability to coach already, is a bad thing.

Cause to me... the only thing that matters is the quality of coaching. Bribing owners to hire minorities does not incentivize them to hire the best candidates.

And that's a problem in my opinion.

So let me get this straight: make already qualified Black coaches overqualified in order to get a fair comparison to other candidates? And you don't see the fundamental absurdity with that position? I truly hope I'm misunderstanding you. If such a "training" program existed it would be an even worse commentary on the NFL owners.

Firstly, it makes a terrible assumption that the already Black coaches have to be better trained for a job they already qualify for.

Secondly, the mere existence of such training basically not only concedes racial bias against Black coaches, but it panders to their bias by telling, again, already qualified Black candidates, that they must certify themselves to being overqualified in order to be even considered comparable to white candidates.

Lastly, the mere fact that such a drastic proposal is even advanced in the first place speak loud volumes about the strength of NFL owners bias against Black coaches. For me, the proposal itself is irrelevant. It's why the proposal even has to be uttered.

You are misunderstanding me and I think it's on purpose just like the previous responses. I never said that they need to be overqualified to get a job. I'm saying it wouldn't hurt to have that program and having more minority coaches is the goal, correct? So why is saying we should promote them controversial?

I'm trying to find a solution when there isn't a clear path forward. I'm tired of my ideas to be nitpicked and my words being changed because three or more of you want to change this discussion to one of hatred and all about "institutional racism" instead of seeking a solution.

It is a joke that this had to be proposed. It's embarrassing for the NFL and black people alike. How would you feel being hired but knowing you might have been hired just because your team gets a higher draft pick compensation? That's not fair to any coach to deal with.

So as I've asked my last few posts... what would you do?

Cause I've posted a list of potential minority head coaches with roughly 15-20 spots I feel aren't secure long term. But it's not a long enough list for me to say it's all racism at work here. That not only gives no solution but creates "us vs them" mindsets that are clearly evident in just they way I've been responded to after being very respectful myself.

I only care about 1. Equality (not equity) and 2. Finding a way to help minorities get jobs Maybe it's like someone else said... it starts from the bottom up with lower level coaching positions, maybe they can enforce a stricter Rooney rule to allow them to get more chances in their young careers. I see the loopholes and think they should do about
it like what I already proposed.

But I would love to hear some ideas or solutions.

If you and others want to talk more about a framework of racism being the sole reason for these non hires without evidence or solutions while pretending I even care for one second about race... You've made up your own mind and I'm done here.

I think your privilege is found in your language, you may not mean to sound the way you do but you clearly stated that: minority's need to work harder then whites in order to succeed. You also said: minority's lacked qualifications.

But of course you never said those things because even after you said them, its not what you meant and since you are the end all be all, and you get to choose what is right and what is wrong, coming from the dominant culture and all I can see how you see yourself as 100% correct.

The bold is just flat out a lie.

All you're doing is embarrassing yourself at this point.

Telling someone they have the privilege that you don't know because they disagree with you is just sad.

The only one with something prevalent in their language is you... and its hatred.

Everyone can see that now.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
So let me get this straight: make already qualified Black coaches overqualified in order to get a fair comparison to other candidates? And you don't see the fundamental absurdity with that position? I truly hope I'm misunderstanding you. If such a "training" program existed it would be an even worse commentary on the NFL owners.

Firstly, it makes a terrible assumption that the already Black coaches have to be better trained for a job they already qualify for.

Secondly, the mere existence of such training basically not only concedes racial bias against Black coaches, but it panders to their bias by telling, again, already qualified Black candidates, that they must certify themselves to being overqualified in order to be even considered comparable to white candidates.

Lastly, the mere fact that such a drastic proposal is even advanced in the first place speak loud volumes about the strength of NFL owners bias against Black coaches. For me, the proposal itself is irrelevant. It's why the proposal even has to be uttered.

Do you really think this post is a fair characterization of Waterbear's comments and intent?

As for the bolded above... who makes the assistant coaching hires? The owners, GMs, or the head coaches?

Do sports tend to lead or lag the general public in terms of racial acceptance?

How many years of coaching does it take for the average assistant to get a meaningful NFL gig (not trainer or glorified waterboy)

It seems to me... my opinion/observation... that head coaches are the ones make the vast majority of the coordinator/assistant choices, and I just don't see any evidence of some systemic (or even slightly common) racist attitude existing there. Why then are minorities not represented according to their makeup of the general population?

Is it possible that the NFL-ready coaching pipeline hasn't yet reached the demographic makeup of the general population?

Is there a non-racist possibility that it never will? (Not saying this is true, but who knows, maybe there is something about the "WASP" background that makes them want to be career coaches in greater proportion than their numbers in the general population?)

I don't know, but why jump straight to racism being the major reason?

The NFL starting a program to help fill the pipeline with more NFL-ready coaches doesn't imply any sort of existing racial bias. Maybe there is some, but there are other explanations out there.

I don't know, maybe due to how African Americans were brought here as slaves (over came that) and are now relying on the same people that brought them here to work for free as slaves, to now be fair and impartial?

Then you see numbers like the NFL player make-up vs Management and coaching positions available, which lead to a Rooney Rule.

hmm, why would you have a problem with a policy or person being outed as racist if they behave as such?

Tragic, but Good read
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/when-the-slave-traders-were-african-11568991595

Nice try, we all know the real history.

But of course the offender gets to control the narrative? Must be true since its on the internet and all...

Adaobi Tricia Nwaubani is the offender controlling the narrative? Interesting

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

So let me get this straight: make already qualified Black coaches overqualified in order to get a fair comparison to other candidates? And you don't see the fundamental absurdity with that position? I truly hope I'm misunderstanding you. If such a "training" program existed it would be an even worse commentary on the NFL owners.

Firstly, it makes a terrible assumption that the already Black coaches have to be better trained for a job they already qualify for.

Secondly, the mere existence of such training basically not only concedes racial bias against Black coaches, but it panders to their bias by telling, again, already qualified Black candidates, that they must certify themselves to being overqualified in order to be even considered comparable to white candidates.

Lastly, the mere fact that such a drastic proposal is even advanced in the first place speak loud volumes about the strength of NFL owners bias against Black coaches. For me, the proposal itself is irrelevant. It's why the proposal even has to be uttered.

Do you really think this post is a fair characterization of Waterbear's comments and intent?

As for the bolded above... who makes the assistant coaching hires? The owners, GMs, or the head coaches?

Do sports tend to lead or lag the general public in terms of racial acceptance?

How many years of coaching does it take for the average assistant to get a meaningful NFL gig (not trainer or glorified waterboy)

It seems to me... my opinion/observation... that head coaches are the ones make the vast majority of the coordinator/assistant choices, and I just don't see any evidence of some systemic (or even slightly common) racist attitude existing there. Why then are minorities not represented according to their makeup of the general population?

Is it possible that the NFL-ready coaching pipeline hasn't yet reached the demographic makeup of the general population?

Is there a non-racist possibility that it never will? (Not saying this is true, but who knows, maybe there is something about the "WASP" background that makes them want to be career coaches in greater proportion than their numbers in the general population?)

I don't know, but why jump straight to racism being the major reason?

The NFL starting a program to help fill the pipeline with more NFL-ready coaches doesn't imply any sort of existing racial bias. Maybe there is some, but there are other explanations out there.

I don't know, maybe due to how African Americans were brought here as slaves (over came that) and are now relying on the same people that brought them here to work for free as slaves, to now be fair and impartial?

Then you see numbers like the NFL player make-up vs Management and coaching positions available, which lead to a Rooney Rule.

hmm, why would you have a problem with a policy or person being outed as racist if they behave as such?

Tragic, but Good read
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/when-the-slave-traders-were-african-11568991595

Nice try, we all know the real history.

But of course the offender gets to control the narrative? Must be true since its on the internet and all...

Adaobi Tricia Nwaubani is the offender controlling the narrative? Interesting

You are the one attempting to use this material to your advantage. But the real idea's and history has already been noted.