NFL to propose incentives to hire minorities

I'm just wondering what the end goal here is? Lets say they do all of this, and still the % of minority coaches is the same. Does that mean its a failure and they have to add even more incentives? Are they not going to be happy until it is 50% minority in the coaching circle or some other magic number?

If they really want that, then just force it. Say you have to have this number of that race, and this number of this other race. That seems like what they want to have as the end goal anyways.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
Seems like you are saying racism is here, it's not good but don't bring it up and don't do anything about it?

That's cause you're trying to create a narrative instead of actually finding out my position.

I've already said in this thread that I think we could start a program to help minority coaches get noticed and more qualified. The NFL has plenty of resources to make that happen. I think the league should probably be involved somehow observing coaching hires to investigate if their is any evidence of racial bias. Being that there are so few head coaching positions... I don't see how that would be a bad idea.

I believe any profession should strive to have equal representation of races... especially ones with a majority like black people do in the NFL.

That's not the same as saying having a majority white front office is a bad thing or that it is proof of mainly racism alone.

Minority coaches are more than qualified, ending racist practices would simply provide a fair opportunity.

This is a microcosm of institutionalized racism in our society being played out in the NFL. The NFL should be more responsible when you look at their workforce.

Your assumption that African Americans need to be trained up in order to do certain jobs is funny, because when slavery was alive and well in the United States, there was a %100 employment rate for African Americans. Hence how there are many lower level opportunities abound, just don't try to climb the latter. Successful African Americans are most often given or have taken opportunities and ran with them, you would have more of this if there were more opportunities for African Americans in this society.

Oh, and I didn't create the narrative on racism. Just remember how it all went down...

What's ACTUALLY funny is you're trying to change what I said so you can argue against a position I don't hold. It's embarrassing so just stop.

What I meant was that the NFL could start a program promoting and training minority coaches. I never said they weren't qualified already because obviously we already have good NFL coaches, head coaches, and front office members on this team and throughout NFL history.

You might think that's not enough but you also haven't given anything tangible to work with other then try to give me a history lesson and try to make my words look racist when they're not.

What would you do? Because other then Pheonix's ideas I haven't heard much from the pro bribing draft pick camp.

Before I go in on the bold I'd like to get a better understanding on what you mean by "training minority coaches".

Exactly what it sounds like. You help minority coaches become overqualified then they maybe already are compared to other candidates. I don't see how saying helping minority coaches improve... regardless of their ability to coach already, is a bad thing.

Cause to me... the only thing that matters is the quality of coaching. Bribing owners to hire minorities does not incentivize them to hire the best candidates.

And that's a problem in my opinion.

So let me get this straight: make already qualified Black coaches overqualified in order to get a fair comparison to other candidates? And you don't see the fundamental absurdity with that position? I truly hope I'm misunderstanding you. If such a "training" program existed it would be an even worse commentary on the NFL owners.

Firstly, it makes a terrible assumption that the already Black coaches have to be better trained for a job they already qualify for.

Secondly, the mere existence of such training basically not only concedes racial bias against Black coaches, but it panders to their bias by telling, again, already qualified Black candidates, that they must certify themselves to being overqualified in order to be even considered comparable to white candidates.

Lastly, the mere fact that such a drastic proposal is even advanced in the first place speak loud volumes about the strength of NFL owners bias against Black coaches. For me, the proposal itself is irrelevant. It's why the proposal even has to be uttered.

You are misunderstanding me and I think it's on purpose just like the previous responses. I never said that they need to be overqualified to get a job. I'm saying it wouldn't hurt to have that program and having more minority coaches is the goal, correct? So why is saying we should promote them controversial?

I'm trying to find a solution when there isn't a clear path forward. I'm tired of my ideas to be nitpicked and my words being changed because three or more of you want to change this discussion to one of hatred and all about "institutional racism" instead of seeking a solution.

It is a joke that this had to be proposed. It's embarrassing for the NFL and black people alike. How would you feel being hired but knowing you might have been hired just because your team gets a higher draft pick compensation? That's not fair to any coach to deal with.

So as I've asked my last few posts... what would you do?

Cause I've posted a list of potential minority head coaches with roughly 15-20 spots I feel aren't secure long term. But it's not a long enough list for me to say it's all racism at work here. That not only gives no solution but creates "us vs them" mindsets that are clearly evident in just they way I've been responded to after being very respectful myself.

I only care about 1. Equality (not equity) and 2. Finding a way to help minorities get jobs Maybe it's like someone else said... it starts from the bottom up with lower level coaching positions, maybe they can enforce a stricter Rooney rule to allow them to get more chances in their young careers. I see the loopholes and think they should do about
it like what I already proposed.

But I would love to hear some ideas or solutions.

If you and others want to talk more about a framework of racism being the sole reason for these non hires without evidence or solutions while pretending I even care for one second about race... You've made up your own mind and I'm done here.

I think your privilege is found in your language, you may not mean to sound the way you do but you clearly stated that: minority's need to work harder then whites in order to succeed. You also said: minority's lacked qualifications.

But of course you never said those things because even after you said them, its not what you meant and since you are the end all be all, and you get to choose what is right and what is wrong, coming from the dominant culture and all I can see how you see yourself as 100% correct.

The bold is just flat out a lie.

All you're doing is embarrassing yourself at this point.

Telling someone they have the privilege that you don't know because they disagree with you is just sad.

The only one with something prevalent in their language is you... and its hatred.

Everyone can see that now.

Thanks for the conversation Waterbear, I do like the fact that this means so much to you and I know you are not racist. I like having these conversations but I never mean to hurt anyone's reputation or feelings. You are a good dude and I like the fact that you are constantly thinking about how to make this world better for all of us. Unfortunately for you and I instead of talking about our draft haul, Jimmy G, or the recent Super Bowl run we are still talking about the need for a revised Rooney Rule.

RED & GOLD

Those are our colors my brother.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
Seems like you are saying racism is here, it's not good but don't bring it up and don't do anything about it?

That's cause you're trying to create a narrative instead of actually finding out my position.

I've already said in this thread that I think we could start a program to help minority coaches get noticed and more qualified. The NFL has plenty of resources to make that happen. I think the league should probably be involved somehow observing coaching hires to investigate if their is any evidence of racial bias. Being that there are so few head coaching positions... I don't see how that would be a bad idea.

I believe any profession should strive to have equal representation of races... especially ones with a majority like black people do in the NFL.

That's not the same as saying having a majority white front office is a bad thing or that it is proof of mainly racism alone.

Minority coaches are more than qualified, ending racist practices would simply provide a fair opportunity.

This is a microcosm of institutionalized racism in our society being played out in the NFL. The NFL should be more responsible when you look at their workforce.

Your assumption that African Americans need to be trained up in order to do certain jobs is funny, because when slavery was alive and well in the United States, there was a %100 employment rate for African Americans. Hence how there are many lower level opportunities abound, just don't try to climb the latter. Successful African Americans are most often given or have taken opportunities and ran with them, you would have more of this if there were more opportunities for African Americans in this society.

Oh, and I didn't create the narrative on racism. Just remember how it all went down...

What's ACTUALLY funny is you're trying to change what I said so you can argue against a position I don't hold. It's embarrassing so just stop.

What I meant was that the NFL could start a program promoting and training minority coaches. I never said they weren't qualified already because obviously we already have good NFL coaches, head coaches, and front office members on this team and throughout NFL history.

You might think that's not enough but you also haven't given anything tangible to work with other then try to give me a history lesson and try to make my words look racist when they're not.

What would you do? Because other then Pheonix's ideas I haven't heard much from the pro bribing draft pick camp.

Before I go in on the bold I'd like to get a better understanding on what you mean by "training minority coaches".

Exactly what it sounds like. You help minority coaches become overqualified then they maybe already are compared to other candidates. I don't see how saying helping minority coaches improve... regardless of their ability to coach already, is a bad thing.

Cause to me... the only thing that matters is the quality of coaching. Bribing owners to hire minorities does not incentivize them to hire the best candidates.

And that's a problem in my opinion.

So let me get this straight: make already qualified Black coaches overqualified in order to get a fair comparison to other candidates? And you don't see the fundamental absurdity with that position? I truly hope I'm misunderstanding you. If such a "training" program existed it would be an even worse commentary on the NFL owners.

Firstly, it makes a terrible assumption that the already Black coaches have to be better trained for a job they already qualify for.

Secondly, the mere existence of such training basically not only concedes racial bias against Black coaches, but it panders to their bias by telling, again, already qualified Black candidates, that they must certify themselves to being overqualified in order to be even considered comparable to white candidates.

Lastly, the mere fact that such a drastic proposal is even advanced in the first place speak loud volumes about the strength of NFL owners bias against Black coaches. For me, the proposal itself is irrelevant. It's why the proposal even has to be uttered.

You are misunderstanding me and I think it's on purpose just like the previous responses. I never said that they need to be overqualified to get a job. I'm saying it wouldn't hurt to have that program and having more minority coaches is the goal, correct? So why is saying we should promote them controversial?

I'm trying to find a solution when there isn't a clear path forward. I'm tired of my ideas to be nitpicked and my words being changed because three or more of you want to change this discussion to one of hatred and all about "institutional racism" instead of seeking a solution.

It is a joke that this had to be proposed. It's embarrassing for the NFL and black people alike. How would you feel being hired but knowing you might have been hired just because your team gets a higher draft pick compensation? That's not fair to any coach to deal with.

So as I've asked my last few posts... what would you do?

Cause I've posted a list of potential minority head coaches with roughly 15-20 spots I feel aren't secure long term. But it's not a long enough list for me to say it's all racism at work here. That not only gives no solution but creates "us vs them" mindsets that are clearly evident in just they way I've been responded to after being very respectful myself.

I only care about 1. Equality (not equity) and 2. Finding a way to help minorities get jobs Maybe it's like someone else said... it starts from the bottom up with lower level coaching positions, maybe they can enforce a stricter Rooney rule to allow them to get more chances in their young careers. I see the loopholes and think they should do about
it like what I already proposed.

But I would love to hear some ideas or solutions.

If you and others want to talk more about a framework of racism being the sole reason for these non hires without evidence or solutions while pretending I even care for one second about race... You've made up your own mind and I'm done here.

I think your privilege is found in your language, you may not mean to sound the way you do but you clearly stated that: minority's need to work harder then whites in order to succeed. You also said: minority's lacked qualifications.

But of course you never said those things because even after you said them, its not what you meant and since you are the end all be all, and you get to choose what is right and what is wrong, coming from the dominant culture and all I can see how you see yourself as 100% correct.

The bold is just flat out a lie.

All you're doing is embarrassing yourself at this point.

Telling someone they have the privilege that you don't know because they disagree with you is just sad.

The only one with something prevalent in their language is you... and its hatred.

Everyone can see that now.

Thanks for the conversation Waterbear, I do like the fact that this means so much to you and I know you are not racist. I like having these conversations but I never mean to hurt anyone's reputation or feelings. You are a good dude and I like the fact that you are constantly thinking about how to make this world better for all of us. Unfortunately for you and I instead of talking about our draft haul, Jimmy G, or the recent Super Bowl run we are still talking about the need for a revised Rooney Rule.

RED & GOLD

Those are our colors my brother.

who won................ WHOS NEXT!!!!!!

EPICCCCCCCCCCC RAPP BATTLES OF HISTORY!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Belicheat is gonna get DNA test saying he has some African ancestry

and it would come back positive. Everyone with euro-mediteranian-middle eastern heritage will have significant sub-saharan dna

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
Seems like you are saying racism is here, it's not good but don't bring it up and don't do anything about it?

That's cause you're trying to create a narrative instead of actually finding out my position.

I've already said in this thread that I think we could start a program to help minority coaches get noticed and more qualified. The NFL has plenty of resources to make that happen. I think the league should probably be involved somehow observing coaching hires to investigate if their is any evidence of racial bias. Being that there are so few head coaching positions... I don't see how that would be a bad idea.

I believe any profession should strive to have equal representation of races... especially ones with a majority like black people do in the NFL.

That's not the same as saying having a majority white front office is a bad thing or that it is proof of mainly racism alone.

Minority coaches are more than qualified, ending racist practices would simply provide a fair opportunity.

This is a microcosm of institutionalized racism in our society being played out in the NFL. The NFL should be more responsible when you look at their workforce.

Your assumption that African Americans need to be trained up in order to do certain jobs is funny, because when slavery was alive and well in the United States, there was a %100 employment rate for African Americans. Hence how there are many lower level opportunities abound, just don't try to climb the latter. Successful African Americans are most often given or have taken opportunities and ran with them, you would have more of this if there were more opportunities for African Americans in this society.

Oh, and I didn't create the narrative on racism. Just remember how it all went down...

What's ACTUALLY funny is you're trying to change what I said so you can argue against a position I don't hold. It's embarrassing so just stop.

What I meant was that the NFL could start a program promoting and training minority coaches. I never said they weren't qualified already because obviously we already have good NFL coaches, head coaches, and front office members on this team and throughout NFL history.

You might think that's not enough but you also haven't given anything tangible to work with other then try to give me a history lesson and try to make my words look racist when they're not.

What would you do? Because other then Pheonix's ideas I haven't heard much from the pro bribing draft pick camp.

Before I go in on the bold I'd like to get a better understanding on what you mean by "training minority coaches".

Exactly what it sounds like. You help minority coaches become overqualified then they maybe already are compared to other candidates. I don't see how saying helping minority coaches improve... regardless of their ability to coach already, is a bad thing.

Cause to me... the only thing that matters is the quality of coaching. Bribing owners to hire minorities does not incentivize them to hire the best candidates.

And that's a problem in my opinion.

So let me get this straight: make already qualified Black coaches overqualified in order to get a fair comparison to other candidates? And you don't see the fundamental absurdity with that position? I truly hope I'm misunderstanding you. If such a "training" program existed it would be an even worse commentary on the NFL owners.

Firstly, it makes a terrible assumption that the already Black coaches have to be better trained for a job they already qualify for.

Secondly, the mere existence of such training basically not only concedes racial bias against Black coaches, but it panders to their bias by telling, again, already qualified Black candidates, that they must certify themselves to being overqualified in order to be even considered comparable to white candidates.

Lastly, the mere fact that such a drastic proposal is even advanced in the first place speak loud volumes about the strength of NFL owners bias against Black coaches. For me, the proposal itself is irrelevant. It's why the proposal even has to be uttered.

You are misunderstanding me and I think it's on purpose just like the previous responses. I never said that they need to be overqualified to get a job. I'm saying it wouldn't hurt to have that program and having more minority coaches is the goal, correct? So why is saying we should promote them controversial?

I'm trying to find a solution when there isn't a clear path forward. I'm tired of my ideas to be nitpicked and my words being changed because three or more of you want to change this discussion to one of hatred and all about "institutional racism" instead of seeking a solution.

It is a joke that this had to be proposed. It's embarrassing for the NFL and black people alike. How would you feel being hired but knowing you might have been hired just because your team gets a higher draft pick compensation? That's not fair to any coach to deal with.

So as I've asked my last few posts... what would you do?

Cause I've posted a list of potential minority head coaches with roughly 15-20 spots I feel aren't secure long term. But it's not a long enough list for me to say it's all racism at work here. That not only gives no solution but creates "us vs them" mindsets that are clearly evident in just they way I've been responded to after being very respectful myself.

I only care about 1. Equality (not equity) and 2. Finding a way to help minorities get jobs Maybe it's like someone else said... it starts from the bottom up with lower level coaching positions, maybe they can enforce a stricter Rooney rule to allow them to get more chances in their young careers. I see the loopholes and think they should do about
it like what I already proposed.

But I would love to hear some ideas or solutions.

If you and others want to talk more about a framework of racism being the sole reason for these non hires without evidence or solutions while pretending I even care for one second about race... You've made up your own mind and I'm done here.

When you said:

You help minority coaches become overqualified then they maybe already are compared to other candidates. I don't see how saying helping minority coaches improve... regardless of their ability to coach already, is a bad thing.

. . . it sure looked to me like you were advocating for having a training program for already qualified Black coaches. But my apologies if that wasn't what you were meaning to say.

Now, what would I do? I'm so glad you asked that question:

• Remove tax exemption
• Have anti-trust laws truly enforced
• Increase congressional oversite of ALL major sports player-ownership relations, in particular make all labor agreements subject to congressional approval
• Make NFL front office and HC hiring subject to EEOC standard
• Mandate that HC jobs go only to NFL coordinators and former NFL HC's
• Quotas – fine and take away draft picks for organizations that has a FO and coaching staff below 30% African-Americans (excluding women)
• Institute a HC hiring advisory board that owners be mandated to consult when considering HC candidates (paid for by owners, but staffed and administered by current NFL vets of at least 7 years and player reps)
• Strengthen the Rooney Rule to include coordinators: 1 Black candidate for all coordinator positions and increase it to 2 for HC candidates

Remember, you asked

Look, I cannot stand that NFL owners have a blatant bias against Black coaches. I have long despised how NFL owners are allowed to operate as modern day slave masters. So long as they are allowed to operate as they do Black NFL coaches will continue to find it difficult to become head coaches in the NFL, no matter how overqualified they may be.

The Rooney Rule was established in 2003. Four years later in 2007 the SB was being played by 2 Black HC's, a year that had 6 Black HC's. Since then the number of Black HC's have steadily declined. Who among us think that's an accident? Did Black coaches somehow forget how to coach? Massive change has to come in order to force equality. Now, I don't really think that the latest proposal will do much to bring that about, but I'll take it. In any event NFL owners aren't going to change unless they are forced to. Period!!

Originally posted by ChicoCorrales:
Draft picks to force hires? Probably the most ridiculous proposal ever by the NFL. Should be interesting to see if the owners agree. What's to stop teams from hiring a coach that doesn't pan out and sitting on him for three years, racking up draft picks, then ditching him when the next new genius becomes available? Seems like a good way to just waste three seasons on the way to rebuilding your franchise.

It's my understanding you would only get one 3rd round pick. (Not one each year)
And 2nd, getting a third rounder isn't building a franchise lol. Every other 3rd rounder is a bust in the NFL.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by weit53:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Idk if that's the answer, but something needs to change. A league that's mostly black players, barely has any black GMs or HCs? Doesn't make sense

Sure. Can't say there isn't a discrepancy. But when hiring someone or considering someone for a job, skin color should not be a factor. With this they are making it a factor. It makes people look at someone's race when looking at candidates and it might lead to adding people to the list just because they're a minority, not because of their value.
It's the same thing with the laws that say a certain amount of the people in top jobs (board members) have to be women. If you have a short list of 10 people which you consider the best and they happen to be men, you have to take 2 out and put women instead, despite being potentially less qualified. Lo and behold, that's discrimination against men.

Good intent, bad strategy.

So what would you suggest then?

Before answering that question, we should ask "what is our objective"? If people say "there aren't enough minority HCs/GMs", then what is the correct number? Should there be a quota? And if so, why?

This sounds like one of those equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome situations. If GMs and HCs are being hired strictly on merit, how is the color of their skin relevant?

This is easily the most ignorant proposal to date. Lol are you fkn kidding me? Glad Dungy, Riddick, Tomlin are voicing their displeasure with this.
Real fkn genius minds working the NFL!!!

Originally posted by wailers15:
This is easily the most ignorant proposal to date. Lol are you fkn kidding me? Glad Dungy, Riddick, Tomlin are voicing their displeasure with this.
Real fkn genius minds working the NFL!!!

Thanks for the update. I haven't followed the reaction among those with the most knowledge of the situation, mostly because, like you, the proposal (not the issue, this proposal) struck me as not worth taking seriously.

So we have guys who presumably know more than most anyone about the topic saying it is a bad idea. Have you heard of any coaches, current or former, who say the proposal is a good idea?

Does this really need to be addressed? If I'm an owner, and I can hire X coach (regardless of race), and he (OR SHE) can take me to the Superbowl and win, thereby increasing my profits astronomically,,,,,,they are hired! Or I stay a mediocre team.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
When you said:

You help minority coaches become overqualified then they maybe already are compared to other candidates. I don't see how saying helping minority coaches improve... regardless of their ability to coach already, is a bad thing.

. . . it sure looked to me like you were advocating for having a training program for already qualified Black coaches. But my apologies if that wasn't what you were meaning to say.

Now, what would I do? I'm so glad you asked that question:

• Remove tax exemption
• Have anti-trust laws truly enforced
• Increase congressional oversite of ALL major sports player-ownership relations, in particular make all labor agreements subject to congressional approval
• Make NFL front office and HC hiring subject to EEOC standard
• Mandate that HC jobs go only to NFL coordinators and former NFL HC's
• Quotas – fine and take away draft picks for organizations that has a FO and coaching staff below 30% African-Americans (excluding women)
• Institute a HC hiring advisory board that owners be mandated to consult when considering HC candidates (paid for by owners, but staffed and administered by current NFL vets of at least 7 years and player reps)
• Strengthen the Rooney Rule to include coordinators: 1 Black candidate for all coordinator positions and increase it to 2 for HC candidates

Remember, you asked

Look, I cannot stand that NFL owners have a blatant bias against Black coaches. I have long despised how NFL owners are allowed to operate as modern day slave masters. So long as they are allowed to operate as they do Black NFL coaches will continue to find it difficult to become head coaches in the NFL, no matter how overqualified they may be.

The Rooney Rule was established in 2003. Four years later in 2007 the SB was being played by 2 Black HC's, a year that had 6 Black HC's. Since then the number of Black HC's have steadily declined. Who among us think that's an accident? Did Black coaches somehow forget how to coach? Massive change has to come in order to force equality. Now, I don't really think that the latest proposal will do much to bring that about, but I'll take it. In any event NFL owners aren't going to change unless they are forced to. Period!!

Seriously thankful that you put down what you would do. I mean that.

Regarding the EEOC standards... Isn't the NFL subject to those currently?
Regarding the Quota... I don't think you can have a racial quota (particularly one for African Americans only) and still be EEOC compliant. Quite the opposite really.
Regarding the mandate that HC jobs go only to NFL coordinators and former HCs... I don't understand what that is intended to do?
Regarding the advisory board... As a general rule, I despise situations where people are required to consult someone but don't have to take the consultation seriously. As a practical matter, either create a group that has to approve coaching choices, or don't bother.
Regarding the Rooney rule... my feeling is similar to the situation above, but it is a direct learning experience for the person involved so I don't mind it too much even though it is contrived.

Again, thanks for posting. You went out on a limb knowing you might have some strong negative reactions, and I can certainly respect that.

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
When you said:

You help minority coaches become overqualified then they maybe already are compared to other candidates. I don't see how saying helping minority coaches improve... regardless of their ability to coach already, is a bad thing.

. . . it sure looked to me like you were advocating for having a training program for already qualified Black coaches. But my apologies if that wasn't what you were meaning to say.

Now, what would I do? I'm so glad you asked that question:

• Remove tax exemption
• Have anti-trust laws truly enforced
• Increase congressional oversite of ALL major sports player-ownership relations, in particular make all labor agreements subject to congressional approval
• Make NFL front office and HC hiring subject to EEOC standard
• Mandate that HC jobs go only to NFL coordinators and former NFL HC's
• Quotas – fine and take away draft picks for organizations that has a FO and coaching staff below 30% African-Americans (excluding women)
• Institute a HC hiring advisory board that owners be mandated to consult when considering HC candidates (paid for by owners, but staffed and administered by current NFL vets of at least 7 years and player reps)
• Strengthen the Rooney Rule to include coordinators: 1 Black candidate for all coordinator positions and increase it to 2 for HC candidates

Remember, you asked

Look, I cannot stand that NFL owners have a blatant bias against Black coaches. I have long despised how NFL owners are allowed to operate as modern day slave masters. So long as they are allowed to operate as they do Black NFL coaches will continue to find it difficult to become head coaches in the NFL, no matter how overqualified they may be.

The Rooney Rule was established in 2003. Four years later in 2007 the SB was being played by 2 Black HC's, a year that had 6 Black HC's. Since then the number of Black HC's have steadily declined. Who among us think that's an accident? Did Black coaches somehow forget how to coach? Massive change has to come in order to force equality. Now, I don't really think that the latest proposal will do much to bring that about, but I'll take it. In any event NFL owners aren't going to change unless they are forced to. Period!!

Seriously thankful that you put down what you would do. I mean that.

Regarding the EEOC standards... Isn't the NFL subject to those currently?
Regarding the Quota... I don't think you can have a racial quota (particularly one for African Americans only) and still be EEOC compliant. Quite the opposite really.
Regarding the mandate that HC jobs go only to NFL coordinators and former HCs... I don't understand what that is intended to do?
Regarding the advisory board... As a general rule, I despise situations where people are required to consult someone but don't have to take the consultation seriously. As a practical matter, either create a group that has to approve coaching choices, or don't bother.
Regarding the Rooney rule... my feeling is similar to the situation above, but it is a direct learning experience for the person involved so I don't mind it too much even though it is contrived.

Again, thanks for posting. You went out on a limb knowing you might have some strong negative reactions, and I can certainly respect that.

EEOC - If that we the case we would not be having this discussion.

Quota - I have had this debate many times with scholars. This is a main reason that EEOC standard needs serious re-thinking and re-writing. And this is a real reason I hate the terms "minority" and "people of color". It dilutes and detracts from the demographic that racism and discrimination mostly impacts - FBA/ADOS (African-Americans). It's a clever way to ignore Blacks while not appearing to. A shining example of this "Affirmative Action" programs and benefits (which have been most enjoyed by white women, and to a lessor extent Indians from India, and Black immigrants). Racism and discrimination disproportionately has always effected (and still disproportionately effects) FBA/ADOS citizens. And because African-Americans have been so devastated in such a lopsided fashion in every aspect of American existence (in this case the hiring of NFL coaches) redress targeted specifically to African-Americas is the warranted, with preventive measures included. If quotas aren't apart of the solution then we might as well shut up about this, accept NFL owners obvious bias against hiring Black HC, and move on. Quotas will prevent owners from satisfying their bias and force them to hire the best candidate. They will have to prove that a better qualified Black candidate turned down the job to justify hiring below the quota, otherwise suffer loss of draft picks and serious fines.

Mandate that HC jobs go only to NFL coordinators and former HCs – See Kliff Kingsbury, Matt Rhule, and Zac Taylor. Then compare and contrast with Eric Bieniemy, Byron Leftwich, Pep Hamilton, or even Kris Richard. This will, in affect, create a pool from which owners have to choose from.

Advisory board – See above. And again, NFL owners must be compelled to make needed changes. They're not gonna volunteer to be equal.

Rooney Rule – I do agree here. It's precisely why they've been able to circumvent it. It currently has no real teeth.

Negative reactions – I know, but I can care less about negative reactions. My views are based on academics and logic. So I won't say that I went out on a limb. But thanks.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
When you said:

You help minority coaches become overqualified then they maybe already are compared to other candidates. I don't see how saying helping minority coaches improve... regardless of their ability to coach already, is a bad thing.

. . . it sure looked to me like you were advocating for having a training program for already qualified Black coaches. But my apologies if that wasn't what you were meaning to say.

Now, what would I do? I'm so glad you asked that question:

• Remove tax exemption
• Have anti-trust laws truly enforced
• Increase congressional oversite of ALL major sports player-ownership relations, in particular make all labor agreements subject to congressional approval
• Make NFL front office and HC hiring subject to EEOC standard
• Mandate that HC jobs go only to NFL coordinators and former NFL HC's
• Quotas – fine and take away draft picks for organizations that has a FO and coaching staff below 30% African-Americans (excluding women)
• Institute a HC hiring advisory board that owners be mandated to consult when considering HC candidates (paid for by owners, but staffed and administered by current NFL vets of at least 7 years and player reps)
• Strengthen the Rooney Rule to include coordinators: 1 Black candidate for all coordinator positions and increase it to 2 for HC candidates

Remember, you asked

Look, I cannot stand that NFL owners have a blatant bias against Black coaches. I have long despised how NFL owners are allowed to operate as modern day slave masters. So long as they are allowed to operate as they do Black NFL coaches will continue to find it difficult to become head coaches in the NFL, no matter how overqualified they may be.

The Rooney Rule was established in 2003. Four years later in 2007 the SB was being played by 2 Black HC's, a year that had 6 Black HC's. Since then the number of Black HC's have steadily declined. Who among us think that's an accident? Did Black coaches somehow forget how to coach? Massive change has to come in order to force equality. Now, I don't really think that the latest proposal will do much to bring that about, but I'll take it. In any event NFL owners aren't going to change unless they are forced to. Period!!

Seriously thankful that you put down what you would do. I mean that.

Regarding the EEOC standards... Isn't the NFL subject to those currently?
Regarding the Quota... I don't think you can have a racial quota (particularly one for African Americans only) and still be EEOC compliant. Quite the opposite really.
Regarding the mandate that HC jobs go only to NFL coordinators and former HCs... I don't understand what that is intended to do?
Regarding the advisory board... As a general rule, I despise situations where people are required to consult someone but don't have to take the consultation seriously. As a practical matter, either create a group that has to approve coaching choices, or don't bother.
Regarding the Rooney rule... my feeling is similar to the situation above, but it is a direct learning experience for the person involved so I don't mind it too much even though it is contrived.

Again, thanks for posting. You went out on a limb knowing you might have some strong negative reactions, and I can certainly respect that.

EEOC - If that we the case we would not be having this discussion.

Quota - I have had this debate many times with scholars. This is a main reason that EEOC standard needs serious re-thinking and re-writing. And this is a real reason I hate the terms "minority" and "people of color". It dilutes and detracts from the demographic that racism and discrimination mostly impacts - FBA/ADOS (African-Americans). It's a clever way to ignore Blacks while not appearing to. A shining example of this "Affirmative Action" programs and benefits (which have been most enjoyed by white women, and to a lessor extent Indians from India, and Black immigrants). Racism and discrimination disproportionately has always effected (and still disproportionately effects) FBA/ADOS citizens. And because African-Americans have been so devastated in such a lopsided fashion in every aspect of American existence (in this case the hiring of NFL coaches) redress targeted specifically to African-Americas is the warranted, with preventive measures included. If quotas aren't apart of the solution then we might as well shut up about this, accept NFL owners obvious bias against hiring Black HC, and move on. Quotas will prevent owners from satisfying their bias and force them to hire the best candidate. They will have to prove that a better qualified Black candidate turned down the job to justify hiring below the quota, otherwise suffer loss of draft picks and serious fines.

Mandate that HC jobs go only to NFL coordinators and former HCs – See Kliff Kingsbury, Matt Rhule, and Zac Taylor. Then compare and contrast with Eric Bieniemy, Byron Leftwich, Pep Hamilton, or even Kris Richard. This will, in affect, create a pool from which owners have to choose from.

Advisory board – See above. And again, NFL owners must be compelled to make needed changes. They're not gonna volunteer to be equal.

Rooney Rule – I do agree here. It's precisely why they've been able to circumvent it. It currently has no real teeth.

Negative reactions – I know, but I can care less about negative reactions. My views are based on academics and logic. So I won't say that I went out on a limb. But thanks.

Great post!

I think these ideas really push the envelope; you either create a real policy or you let things continue to go the way they are. No need for the fake policies (See the NFL pass interference replay rule change after the Saints got robbed) that only exist to keep people interested in your faulty product.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/05/21/marvin-lewis-offended-nfl-offering-incentive-minority-african-american-hires/5236448002/

Originally posted by Midbay:

Originally posted by wailers15:

This is easily the most ignorant proposal to date. Lol are you fkn kidding me? Glad Dungy, Riddick, Tomlin are voicing their displeasure with this.
Real fkn genius minds working the NFL!!!

Thanks for the update. I haven't followed the reaction among those with the most knowledge of the situation, mostly because, like you, the proposal (not the issue, this proposal) struck me as not worth taking seriously.

So we have guys who presumably know more than most anyone about the topic saying it is a bad idea. Have you heard of any coaches, current or former, who say the proposal is a good idea?

No I have not heard of anyone really that supports this.