Zach Wilson, QB, Denver Broncos

I honestly haven't watched enough BYU games to have a strong opinion on Wilson. The one thing he seems to have that I like is the ability to extend plays and run if needed.

I watched that Ravens game last night and I would never say that Jackson is a polished thrower but he is a game changer. Guys that can move and make plays out of nothing force opposing defenses to make adjustments to what they normally do. Whenever you do that, it gives you an advantage. I think that lack of mobility with the Niner QBs really hurts them late in games. The defenses know they aren't going to scramble so they pin their ears back and pressure the hell out of them.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by krizay:

Interesting choice of player to make your point.

I've disagreed with my fair share of NY's posts (I almost muted him during the 2017 draft on multiple occasions), but can we please not go another entire offseason/draft cycle with you seeking out and calling out every single one of his posts?!

My point behind these 2 posts was the fact that he quoted me telling me not to post him as it relates to Wilson being Mahomes 2.0.

Then he uses Mahomes twice as a player to make a point.

So my quote wasn't just out of the blue calling him out.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Think I'm just gonna ignore his post when it comes to QBs...No hate, but he clearly always has an issue with my opinions in the draft forums.

New Years resolution, tone it down a notch lol

No hate here as well! Funny thing is I don't dislike Wilson no more than you don't dislike Jones.

Our only real difference is I don't think Wilson is pay the farm better FOR US than Mac Jones. To that we can agree to disagree.

As for an issue with you. Only issue I have is the hypocrisy.

You pound your chest for your guy using whatever data, tweet or excuse you want then totally ignore the same arguments for other guys (prospects or current players)

Then there's the if a guy tweets something that supports your argument then it's gospel because some dude shared his OPINION that sides with yours. Even though most of 99% of those dudes is no different than you or me.

But we both did a good job of avoiding each other towards the end of last year and I tend to do te same again this year. As our talks almost always end in a 4 pager.

One day our draft plans will align and I can ride your tweet wave all the way to the draft. Until then...

Happy Holidays

See you in February when player x runs and jumps higher than player z.

another great aspect of having a QB that can move is it helps dictate what coverages a defense runs overall....teams can't be rocking man coverage all game if they have to account for a QB that can run.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

another great aspect of having a QB that can move is it helps dictate what coverages a defense runs overall....teams can't be rocking man coverage all game if they have to account for a QB that can run.

I just know that Wilson's traits would not be wasted on this team. Imagine how nervous defenses would be to sell out on outside zone plays knowing Wilson could fake and bootleg for the first down.

If you remember I was high on Mahomes but I thought Watson was overrated due to the talent around him. I think I may be making the same mistake with Mac Jones. It just seems like all his WRs gets 5 yards of separation every play. So it's hard to determine how we would do with less around him.

I'm fully aware that Jones could be the second best QB in this class but for now I still have Wilson ranked higher. It doesn't matter to me that we would have to give up a lot more. We need to find our franchise QB at all costs.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

I just know that Wilson's traits would not be wasted on this team. Imagine how nervous defenses would be to sell out on outside zone plays knowing Wilson could fake and bootleg for the first down.

If you remember I was high on Mahomes but I thought Watson was overrated due to the talent around him. I think I may be making the same mistake with Mac Jones. It just seems like all his WRs gets 5 yards of separation every play. So it's hard to determine how we would do with less around him.

I'm fully aware that Jones could be the second best QB in this class but for now I still have Wilson ranked higher. It doesn't matter to me that we would have to give up a lot more. We need to find our franchise QB at all costs.

There's no denying the talent surrounding Jones. Especially compared to Wilson. However, the constant talk of him throwing to wide open dudes is waaaay overblown.

Not all of his throws are to wide open guys. His most impressive throws are the tight window throws.

In contrast. Wilson throws to wide open receivers too. Yes his receivers don't get the recognition. And his receivers aren't wide open 40 yard down the field but he has WIDE OPEN guys all the time 15 yards and in.

They both throw to wide open guys more than the argument gets made

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
another great aspect of having a QB that can move is it helps dictate what coverages a defense runs overall....teams can't be rocking man coverage all game if they have to account for a QB that can run.

I just know that Wilson's traits would not be wasted on this team. Imagine how nervous defenses would be to sell out on outside zone plays knowing Wilson could fake and bootleg for the first down.

If you remember I was high on Mahomes but I thought Watson was overrated due to the talent around him. I think I may be making the same mistake with Mac Jones. It just seems like all his WRs gets 5 yards of separation every play. So it's hard to determine how we would do with less around him.

I'm fully aware that Jones could be the second best QB in this class but for now I still have Wilson ranked higher. It doesn't matter to me that we would have to give up a lot more. We need to find our franchise QB at all costs.

Would be cool but I'd hope that's not something we show often. It would be great having a mobile QB who can punish teams if they play man and give him a huge running lane or a guy who can avoid the rush to find guys down the field for big plays.

I'd hope our designed run plays are kept to minimum. I feel like that's where guys get broken more.

But I agree with your main point, that type of fear would be nice to see by defenses.

Originally posted by genus49:
Would be cool but I'd hope that's not something we show often. It would be great having a mobile QB who can punish teams if they play man and give him a huge running lane or a guy who can avoid the rush to find guys down the field for big plays.

I'd hope our designed run plays are kept to minimum. I feel like that's where guys get broken more.

But I agree with your main point, that type of fear would be nice to see by defenses.

I know Jackson is a freak, but watching that game last night when he came out of the locker room and threw that TD pass to a wide open receiver was a demonstration of what a running QB can do. He started right like he was going to run and may have been able to get the first down. Because he runs so well, both defenders froze thinking he would. They left the receiver wide open at a critical time in the game. JG is a better passer than Jackson but if he ran to the right like that the defenders wouldn't have worried about him running. It's not that QBs need to be able to run but it's one more tool in the box. Sometimes just the threat is enough to change the game.

Reminds you of Mike Tyson. He was rarely the best boxer in the ring, but he was so fierce that he scared his opponents and won the fights the minute he walked into the ring. The 80s Niners were like that in a way. They were so good that half the teams they played were beaten before kickoff.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by genus49:
Would be cool but I'd hope that's not something we show often. It would be great having a mobile QB who can punish teams if they play man and give him a huge running lane or a guy who can avoid the rush to find guys down the field for big plays.

I'd hope our designed run plays are kept to minimum. I feel like that's where guys get broken more.

But I agree with your main point, that type of fear would be nice to see by defenses.

I know Jackson is a freak, but watching that game last night when he came out of the locker room and threw that TD pass to a wide open receiver was a demonstration of what a running QB can do. He started right like he was going to run and may have been able to get the first down. Because he runs so well, both defenders froze thinking he would. They left the receiver wide open at a critical time in the game. JG is a better passer than Jackson but if he ran to the right like that the defenders wouldn't have worried about him running. It's not that QBs need to be able to run but it's one more tool in the box. Sometimes just the threat is enough to change the game.

Reminds you of Mike Tyson. He was rarely the best boxer in the ring, but he was so fierce that he scared his opponents and won the fights the minute he walked into the ring. The 80s Niners were like that in a way. They were so good that half the teams they played were beaten before kickoff.

Lamar is a freak for sure but I can't help but think he's getting hurt sooner or later running that much.

I know this year that offense wasn't nearly as deadly as it was last season...part of that is losing a stud like Stanley but we've also heard the Roman's offense is predictable talk(funny how that keeps happening with him everywhere he goes, starts red hot and then everyone else catches up to him)

I'm not about to get too excited about any QB prospect without seeing where we're picking and how things are sounding in terms of draft stock but I'm REALLY digging Wilson's game.

As others have stated my concern is his size(especially if our OL doesn't improve in pass pro next year) but I do think an NFL regimen can get him to beef up a bit and his baby face probably adds to the concerns in making him seem more fragile(I fully admit that's ridiculous)

But the arm talent, the ability to run when needed and the ability to throw on the run is pretty exciting. Obviously I'm not fully out on Jimmy but his contract and availability is an issue. Getting a guy like Wilson under Kyle with Aiyuk, Deebo, Kittle and some of our other guys would be amazing to watch.

Originally posted by genus49:
Lamar is a freak for sure but I can't help but think he's getting hurt sooner or later running that much.

I know this year that offense wasn't nearly as deadly as it was last season...part of that is losing a stud like Stanley but we've also heard the Roman's offense is predictable talk(funny how that keeps happening with him everywhere he goes, starts red hot and then everyone else catches up to him)

I'm not about to get too excited about any QB prospect without seeing where we're picking and how things are sounding in terms of draft stock but I'm REALLY digging Wilson's game.

As others have stated my concern is his size(especially if our OL doesn't improve in pass pro next year) but I do think an NFL regimen can get him to beef up a bit and his baby face probably adds to the concerns in making him seem more fragile(I fully admit that's ridiculous)

But the arm talent, the ability to run when needed and the ability to throw on the run is pretty exciting. Obviously I'm not fully out on Jimmy but his contract and availability is an issue. Getting a guy like Wilson under Kyle with Aiyuk, Deebo, Kittle and some of our other guys would be amazing to watch.

I always felt that these QBs that run a lot were going to get hurt more but the evidence doesn't show that. Murray is small and after neaerly 2 years hasn't been hurt. Jackson has had only minor stuff. Wilson has never missed a start in 9 seasons. Rogers runs a lot but his 2 broken collarbone injuries happened when he was sacked in the pocket.

Then we have Jimmy who's had two serious injuries. The ACL happened out of bounds when he slipped, The ankle happened in the pocket. Many QBs have suffered severe injuries in the pocket when a lineman falls on their leg or they get sacked. There just isn't enough evidence to show that running QBs get hurt more. The fact that the QB handles the ball on every play is going to make him more susceptible to injury whether he runs , hands off or stands in the pocket. Now they have the rule where the QB is protected when he slides so that lowers the chance of getting severe head or shoulder injuries.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by genus49:
Would be cool but I'd hope that's not something we show often. It would be great having a mobile QB who can punish teams if they play man and give him a huge running lane or a guy who can avoid the rush to find guys down the field for big plays.

I'd hope our designed run plays are kept to minimum. I feel like that's where guys get broken more.

But I agree with your main point, that type of fear would be nice to see by defenses.

I know Jackson is a freak, but watching that game last night when he came out of the locker room and threw that TD pass to a wide open receiver was a demonstration of what a running QB can do. He started right like he was going to run and may have been able to get the first down. Because he runs so well, both defenders froze thinking he would. They left the receiver wide open at a critical time in the game. JG is a better passer than Jackson but if he ran to the right like that the defenders wouldn't have worried about him running. It's not that QBs need to be able to run but it's one more tool in the box. Sometimes just the threat is enough to change the game.

Reminds you of Mike Tyson. He was rarely the best boxer in the ring, but he was so fierce that he scared his opponents and won the fights the minute he walked into the ring. The 80s Niners were like that in a way. They were so good that half the teams they played were beaten before kickoff.

Lamar is a freak for sure but I can't help but think he's getting hurt sooner or later running that much.

I know this year that offense wasn't nearly as deadly as it was last season...part of that is losing a stud like Stanley but we've also heard the Roman's offense is predictable talk(funny how that keeps happening with him everywhere he goes, starts red hot and then everyone else catches up to him)

I'm not about to get too excited about any QB prospect without seeing where we're picking and how things are sounding in terms of draft stock but I'm REALLY digging Wilson's game.

As others have stated my concern is his size(especially if our OL doesn't improve in pass pro next year) but I do think an NFL regimen can get him to beef up a bit and his baby face probably adds to the concerns in making him seem more fragile(I fully admit that's ridiculous)

But the arm talent, the ability to run when needed and the ability to throw on the run is pretty exciting. Obviously I'm not fully out on Jimmy but his contract and availability is an issue. Getting a guy like Wilson under Kyle with Aiyuk, Deebo, Kittle and some of our other guys would be amazing to watch.

My main problem with that argument: Jimmy doesn't run, but Jimmy's been hurt way more than Lamar.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

1990, DG's father Garrett Gabriel defeats #4 ranked BYU & Heisman QB Ty Detmer.

In 8 days, Dillon Gabriel faces a ranked BYU team and Zach Wilson in the Boca Bowl.

Like father like son
pic.twitter.com/MvSPBaPC9B

— Barstool UCF (@UCFStool) December 14, 2020

I was at that game and it was absolutely amazing

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

another great aspect of having a QB that can move is it helps dictate what coverages a defense runs overall....teams can't be rocking man coverage all game if they have to account for a QB that can run.

I just know that Wilson's traits would not be wasted on this team. Imagine how nervous defenses would be to sell out on outside zone plays knowing Wilson could fake and bootleg for the first down.

If you remember I was high on Mahomes but I thought Watson was overrated due to the talent around him. I think I may be making the same mistake with Mac Jones. It just seems like all his WRs gets 5 yards of separation every play. So it's hard to determine how we would do with less around him.

I'm fully aware that Jones could be the second best QB in this class but for now I still have Wilson ranked higher. It doesn't matter to me that we would have to give up a lot more. We need to find our franchise QB at all costs.

Agreed...If they value a guy enough I don't care about trade capital. QB is not the one position where you settle because you're unwilling to move up.

Now if they have a similar grade on Lance/Wilson vs Jones then fine

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

My main problem with that argument: Jimmy doesn't run, but Jimmy's been hurt way more than Lamar.

Baltimore OL has been much better. That helps limit how often a guy gets hit. But Lamar's mobility does prevent teams from rushing him the way they can Jimmy or a Jared Goff. We know this first hand from last year.

Certainly a plus to having a mobile QB for sure.