Zach Wilson, QB, Denver Broncos

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Well if Lawson is available he would be my number 1 choice I just don't think the Bengals are gonna let him sniff the open market

Keep Hyder in the building and draft a speed rusher

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Well if Lawson is available he would be my number 1 choice I just don't think the Bengals are gonna let him sniff the open market

Keep Hyder in the building and draft a speed rusher

In theory that sounds great. But Hyder had his best season and is probably lookin to get payed and if we're going off of the mock draft we wouldn't be getting a Edge until round 4. With still a giant ? At CB.

Tankathon has us at #12 taking Wilson, with a choice of Wilson and Lance...not that it means much. Mac and Trask both available with our second rounder.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Round 3 has been added to @CoverCorner47's latest 2021 NFL Mock Draft. Some highlights:

🏈 Giants add a QB 👀
🏈 Both star UNC RBs come off the board
🏈 Texans make 1st pick
🏈 7 WRs get drafted
🏈 Cowboys bolster secondary#FrontOffice33 | #NFLDrafthttps://t.co/b18aSKPxBy

— The Draft Network (@TheDraftNetwork) December 18, 2020

Love the first 2 picks, Dickerson has been one of the top centers this yr. I do question past injuries though.

I bet would could move down in the 2nd and still land him or another center.

Suprised by Rashod Bateman in mid second and ERs Patrick Jones and Carlos Basham in the 3rd, not sure that happens.

Jimmy Morrissey out of Pitt could be that later center Rd 3-4, didn't allow a sack all year and graded out as Pitt's top run blocker by PFF.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:

Why would anyone want a QB with such weak mental state? Nothing ruins great physical and athletic tools faster than the head.

He seems like a nice enough guy but there have been talk about his lack of leadership for a bit. Someone else can take on that project.

I'd like to start with a fresh kid and let Kyle build him up.

Oh I'm not talking about Wentz coming here...I want no part of that.

He's a small town kid from North Dakota. Philly probably wasn't the best fit lol.

Maybe in 2022 I can see him in INDY with Frank. Also I think people are really jumping the gun on Hurts...one game and people go nuts.

Agreed. Id say wait until next year when there are a few games on film and DCs have time to really dissect him.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 9moon:
are u talking about any specific rookie QB or any rookie QB in general??

I'm talking about if SF values a higher end QB and goes all in, he's got a much better chance for success here with this staff and hopefully a maintained roster.

You pick a QB in the mid rd you're not expecting him to be the guy. That's why people bring up CJ I laugh...it's a very week attempt to call out the coaching staff.

Where a QB gets drafted is a big deal and can determine how successful they will be in the NFL

hang on hang on.... it's too early and I really don't wanna be a smart azz towards you and others who believe w/that statement (bolded)..

but my understanding is our current QB then was HOYER, and we moved up to draft CJ (mid round)... you telling me that YOU did not expect this kid to be our guy??

if that's your belief, then you're basically saying that HOYER was going to be the 49ers starters for years to come and HOPE that CJ will develope?

also, if you're not expecting a mid rounder QB to be the guy, then why trade UP for him?

FANS who loves Shanny uses JIMMY as the excuse.... if Shanny really did not want Jimmy, why didn't he force LYNCH to get COUSINS???

why would it matter how much Cousins will cost, heck, if Shanny believe that Cousins will be the one to take us to the Super Bowl.. NO??

Originally posted by 9moon:

hang on hang on.... it's too early and I really don't wanna be a smart azz towards you and others who believe w/that statement (bolded)..

but my understanding is our current QB then was HOYER, and we moved up to draft CJ (mid round)... you telling me that YOU did not expect this kid to be our guy??

if that's your belief, then you're basically saying that HOYER was going to be the 49ers starters for years to come and HOPE that CJ will develope?

also, if you're not expecting a mid rounder QB to be the guy, then why trade UP for him?

FANS who loves Shanny uses JIMMY as the excuse.... if Shanny really did not want Jimmy, why didn't he force LYNCH to get COUSINS???

why would it matter how much Cousins will cost, heck, if Shanny believe that Cousins will be the one to take us to the Super Bowl.. NO??

f**k no I didn't expect him to be the future and IF you did, you're being a fool. They gave up a 7th rd pick lol.

They saw an opportunity to get Jimmy and made a move. Things change quickly in the league.

Quit being so dramatic

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
The fact that your source has Mahomes at 55 ought to make you wonder if it's valid.

For one, we posted a video in the Chiefs thread where he went 62. Second, this source has him at 60 at the combine.

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/3/10/14890754/cleveland-browns-2017-nfl-scouting-combine-qb-velocity



In light of the fact that your source is proven wrong by this video, and the fact that Garoppolo having a stronger arm than Mahomes is UTTERLY LAUGHABLE, you might want to rethink your source. Garoppolo did throw for 56 in my source, too, but his velocity is hovering at average among the people in his class per my source (and well below Mahomes).

And the biggest problem of all: Garoppolo at a combine is throwing mechanically sound, and thus maximizing his velocity. Garoppolo on game day consistently raises his foot incorrectly, which affects his power and accuracy.

https://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-NFL-Combine-2008-2017/10243/dh/

Yes, the ourlads source is the one I'm criticizing and challenging. For one, MY source lists Mahomes combine throwing speed at 60, not 55 (and what is more reasonable: that Jimmy has a stronger arm than Mahomes or the other way around). Secondly, my VIDEO shows that Mahomes when seriously throwing easily gets 58 consistently and up to 62 when trying.

When I was studying physics in college, one thing we had ingrained into us: when measuring something, or calculating something, always ask yourself if it makes sense with respect to what you already know. For example, if you calculated a force but got units of energy, you know something is wrong with your set up. Likewise, if your source has Mahomes with a weaker arm than Jimmy, somewhere along the line a mistake has been made.

There is no place on this planet where Jimmy has a stronger arm than Mahomes.

Lastly, again, even if Jimmy did throw 56 mph at the combine (which is solidly above average, but definitely not elite at all), in actual games he consistently lifts his feet in a way that prevents him from following through. That helps him on short passes when throwing under pressure, but it kills his deep ball power and accuracy. Mahomes doesn't have this problem BECAUSE his arm is so strong. But Jimmy? He simply does not have the arm strength to play the way he TRIES to (fundamentally unsound).

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Jimmy's velocity was higher or the same as Mahomes. The difference is when Jimmy throws deep something happens and his ball tends to wobble and float off line. Maybe he's trying to put too much into, kind of the way a pitcher overthrows when he's trying for a strikeout. He loses his form and the ball drifts. That's the only explanation I have for why he has difficulty being consistent on deeper throws. He was plenty of velocity on the throws out to about 20-25 yards.

According to ourlads, sure. Not according to my source, which had Mahomes at 60 mph.

As for the reason, it's because of his feet. This one breaks it down. Look at about 9 minutes in.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymIOgCfa9pY&t=9m16s

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Yes, the ourlads source is the one I'm criticizing and challenging. For one, MY source lists Mahomes combine throwing speed at 60, not 55 (and what is more reasonable: that Jimmy has a stronger arm than Mahomes or the other way around). Secondly, my VIDEO shows that Mahomes when seriously throwing easily gets 58 consistently and up to 62 when trying.

When I was studying physics in college, one thing we had ingrained into us: when measuring something, or calculating something, always ask yourself if it makes sense with respect to what you already know. For example, if you calculated a force but got units of energy, you know something is wrong with your set up. Likewise, if your source has Mahomes with a weaker arm than Jimmy, somewhere along the line a mistake has been made.

There is no place on this planet where Jimmy has a stronger arm than Mahomes.

Lastly, again, even if Jimmy did throw 56 mph at the combine (which is solidly above average, but definitely not elite at all), in actual games he consistently lifts his feet in a way that prevents him from following through. That helps him on short passes when throwing under pressure, but it kills his deep ball power and accuracy. Mahomes doesn't have this problem BECAUSE his arm is so strong. But Jimmy? He simply does not have the arm strength to play the way he TRIES to (fundamentally unsound).

I hear what you are saying. You seem to be fixated on simply the Mahomes portion of this. The fact is even YOUR source has all the other QBs the same as MY source.

So eliminate Mahomes from the discussion and my point remains that it's not just about arm strength but also willingness of throwing it deep.

As you can see from this chart he seems to be accurate when he throws it (lifting his foot or not) he just doesn't throw it enough.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2020/2019-20-deep-ball-project


Not alot of strong arms at the top of that list

Originally posted by Murphys1:

Tankathon has us at #12 taking Wilson, with a choice of Wilson and Lance...not that it means much. Mac and Trask both available with our second rounder.

They in drugs if they think they will fall that much , they going 4-5-6 range

Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:

Originally posted by Murphys1:
Tankathon has us at #12 taking Wilson, with a choice of Wilson and Lance...not that it means much. Mac and Trask both available with our second rounder.

They in drugs if they think they will fall that much , they going 4-5-6 range

That's nonsense.

There are two guys IMO guaranteed for top 5 unless they murder someone before the draft - Lawrence and Fields.

Wilson, Lance, Jones, Trask aren't set in stone at this point.

Wilson is making a great run but he can also easily be picked apart when the draft prep process starts for most teams after the season - is he big enough to take a beating in the NFL? Why was he only this good for one season? Is his competition good enough?

Similar conversations will be had about Lance and his lack of tape from this season and the one game he had this year ruined his perfect image from the year before.

Lawrence and Fields have faced top competition multiple seasons and have played great against them. There shouldn't be any questions about their physical tools, their competition or their inconsistency. Those are the type of guys you can pretty much say they're locked in at the top of the draft.

We'll see what happens.

I think Wilson SHOULD cement himself in the top 10 and Lance's athletic ability with Josh Allen playing so well and Carson Wentz not having issues with the competition aspect could get him in there as well but it remains to be seen.

Simply put, its time to tank and aim for Wilson. Without a qb, you have nothing. You know you don't have enough at JG, so you're not going to win the SB consistently.
Thus, since the goal is to win the SB., its better to draft a qb, save the money and get some folks around him. And if the QB drafted works out, great, else, you didn't lose out on much, since you know JG is not going to get you there consistently.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
The fact that your source has Mahomes at 55 ought to make you wonder if it's valid.

For one, we posted a video in the Chiefs thread where he went 62. Second, this source has him at 60 at the combine.

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/3/10/14890754/cleveland-browns-2017-nfl-scouting-combine-qb-velocity



In light of the fact that your source is proven wrong by this video, and the fact that Garoppolo having a stronger arm than Mahomes is UTTERLY LAUGHABLE, you might want to rethink your source. Garoppolo did throw for 56 in my source, too, but his velocity is hovering at average among the people in his class per my source (and well below Mahomes).

And the biggest problem of all: Garoppolo at a combine is throwing mechanically sound, and thus maximizing his velocity. Garoppolo on game day consistently raises his foot incorrectly, which affects his power and accuracy.

https://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-NFL-Combine-2008-2017/10243/dh/

I'm not about to argue about Mahomes' arm strength considering we know it's off the charts but two things.

1. Anyone else hoping Heath Evans took one to the chin on one of those throws? Just me?

2. To be fair Mahomes best throw sailed completely. Just makes a point that arm strength is great but it has to be with accuracy. Josh Allen was overthrowing guys at a crazy rate last year. Can't rely on guys putting in the work that he did to fix his accuracy.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:

Originally posted by Murphys1:

Tankathon has us at #12 taking Wilson, with a choice of Wilson and Lance...not that it means much. Mac and Trask both available with our second rounder.

They in drugs if they think they will fall that much , they going 4-5-6 range

That's nonsense.

There are two guys IMO guaranteed for top 5 unless they murder someone before the draft - Lawrence and Fields.

Wilson, Lance, Jones, Trask aren't set in stone at this point.

Wilson is making a great run but he can also easily be picked apart when the draft prep process starts for most teams after the season - is he big enough to take a beating in the NFL? Why was he only this good for one season? Is his competition good enough?

Similar conversations will be had about Lance and his lack of tape from this season and the one game he had this year ruined his perfect image from the year before.

Lawrence and Fields have faced top competition multiple seasons and have played great against them. There shouldn't be any questions about their physical tools, their competition or their inconsistency. Those are the type of guys you can pretty much say they're locked in at the top of the draft.

We'll see what happens.

I think Wilson SHOULD cement himself in the top 10 and Lance's athletic ability with Josh Allen playing so well and Carson Wentz not having issues with the competition aspect could get him in there as well but it remains to be seen.

This.

So many QB's rise and fall leading up to the draft. Combine, workouts, senior bowl, interviews etc

All it takes is for a team to fall in love and we get another Jones/Haskins situation that pushes another QB down.

Or just because a team is perceived as a QB needy team doesn't mean they take whoever is available.

Maybe a team loves Lance but are meh on Wilson. If Lance is gone they're not going to take Wilson just because.

Way too many variables to say who will and won't be available outside the top 2 and even then it wouldn't shock me if the Jags over think it and take a different QB because they fall in love.