Zach Wilson, QB, Denver Broncos

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I wrote about this in the QB class thread, but for me it depends how much faith you have in Jimmy. Anymore than 50% you don't do it.

Anymore than 80% you build around him and get a new backup.

If it's less than 50% you've got to make a move. Zach would be my preferred option, but I'm about 65% sold on Jimmy, so while I want another QB in the building, Jimmy would be my starter.

The fact that they didn't restructure his deal (and might not this off season) is proof they aren't in love with him. They've talked about Brady and Stafford. I just don't see them wanting Jimmy as the long-term guy.

I also think they're very frugal with their picks and how they spend money. For whatever reason they have to feel like they won the deal lol. I like McVay's comment, when he said I don't care who won the deal, I care about winning the Super Bowl regarding the Stafford deal.

I like all the top 4 QBs in this draft more than Jimmy. Maybe not day one, but I care about long-term success. They can't have another Jimmy get's hurt season...3 yrs below .500 (even though we know why) isn't acceptable. While it's not Kyle's fault that Jimmy keeps getting hurt. He's also not throwing in real competition and a top end backup. That's on him.

Go get the QB you want to build around. Go get that cap relief. Trade Jimmy for a 3rd rd pick. Let's put the big boy pants on and not be afraid to lose some future picks. We've lost plenty of early picks just by drafting the wrong guys anyway.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I wrote about this in the QB class thread, but for me it depends how much faith you have in Jimmy. Anymore than 50% you don't do it.

Anymore than 80% you build around him and get a new backup.

If it's less than 50% you've got to make a move. Zach would be my preferred option, but I'm about 65% sold on Jimmy, so while I want another QB in the building, Jimmy would be my starter.

The fact that they didn't restructure his deal (and might not this off season) is proof they aren't in love with him. They've talked about Brady and Stafford. I just don't see them wanting Jimmy as the long-term guy.

I also think they're very frugal with their picks and how they spend money. For whatever reason they have to feel like they won the deal lol. I like McVay's comment, when he said I don't care who won the deal, I care about winning the Super Bowl regarding the Stafford deal.

I like all the top 4 QBs in this draft more than Jimmy. Maybe not day one, but I care about long-term success. They can't have another Jimmy get's hurt season...3 yrs below .500 (even though we know why) isn't acceptable. While it's not Kyle's fault that Jimmy keeps getting hurt. He's also not throwing in real competition and a top end backup. That's on him.

Go get the QB you want to build around. Go get that cap relief. Trade Jimmy for a 3rd rd pick. Let's put the big boy pants on and not be afraid to lose some future picks. We've lost plenty of early picks just by drafting the wrong guys anyway.

The only scenario that you've presented worth even discussing is the three team deal with the Dophins that lands us the #3 pick and Wilson. I think it was three picks this year and our 2022 first for #3 overall. At least that way we get back Wilson on a cheap rookie contract and don't give away multiple firsts for Watson. Every other scenario would gut the roster and future picks and leave us with a window of basically 2021 to win a Super Bowl.

Look I'd be very tempted by that, but if that QB doesn't pan out, that's job losing stuff.

You've told everyone you can win a Superbowl with Jimmy, if you shop him now and the rook busts you're screwed.

Go with Jimmy, with a rook to develop behind him. Jimmy has to beat out the rookie every year, until one of them is traded.

It sucks because I really like Zach, but I think it's the prudent play. Be it Lance, Mac Jones or an upside guy like Mills or Graham.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Look I'd be very tempted by that, but if that QB doesn't pan out, that's job losing stuff.

You've told everyone you can win a Superbowl with Jimmy, if you shop him now and the rook busts you're screwed.

Go with Jimmy, with a rook to develop behind him. Jimmy has to beat out the rookie every year, until one of them is traded.

It sucks because I really like Zach, but I think it's the prudent play. Be it Lance, Mac Jones or an upside guy like Mills or Graham.

Not grabbing the QB. can lose you a job just as well. Passing on Watson/Mahomes for Kirk? Having another yr of Jimmy getting hurt and not having a actual QB behind him, can lose you a job as well. How many seasons of oh our QB got hurt and now weren't out of it does Kyle get? That would be 4 seasons. We've see good HCs get fired for less.

I don't see how a rookie QB is gonna bust with this roster and Kyle? Dude has won games with Nick Mullens and Hoyer. All that rookie QB has to do is look promising and you've gotten yourself more time IMO. Let's see Kyle actually develop.

You tell everyone you can win a SB with Jimmy BUT you actually didn't at the end of the day...and the QB play a big part in not winning it. You sniffed around at multiple QBs in the off season. You're not doing that if you have a FQB on the roster.

Why does it always have to be the prudent play? What happens if SF wins like 8-9 games this yr misses the playoffs and is drafting like 18th? You're not getting a QB worth a damn and it will cost ya even more.

mid rd developmental QBs? Come on man. You pass on making a move (again) that's just as bad and worthy of losing your job imo.

Originally posted by Furlow:
The only scenario that you've presented worth even discussing is the three team deal with the Dophins that lands us the #3 pick and Wilson. I think it was three picks this year and our 2022 first for #3 overall. At least that way we get back Wilson on a cheap rookie contract and don't give away multiple firsts for Watson. Every other scenario would gut the roster and future picks and leave us with a window of basically 2021 to win a Super Bowl.

I don't care if you don't want to discuss it with me lol. There's plenty of posters in here that do...giving up future picks with no idea when or who they will draft is "gutting" the roster. k

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Furlow:

The only scenario that you've presented worth even discussing is the three team deal with the Dophins that lands us the #3 pick and Wilson. I think it was three picks this year and our 2022 first for #3 overall. At least that way we get back Wilson on a cheap rookie contract and don't give away multiple firsts for Watson. Every other scenario would gut the roster and future picks and leave us with a window of basically 2021 to win a Super Bowl.

I don't care if you don't want to discuss it with me lol. There's plenty of posters in here that do...giving up future picks with no idea when or who they will draft is "gutting" the roster. k

Not just the picks. The ridiculously high salary that makes it impossible to keep all of the pieces we have now. If we're moving on from Jimmy, let's go the cheap rookie route.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Look I'd be very tempted by that, but if that QB doesn't pan out, that's job losing stuff.

You've told everyone you can win a Superbowl with Jimmy, if you shop him now and the rook busts you're screwed.

Go with Jimmy, with a rook to develop behind him. Jimmy has to beat out the rookie every year, until one of them is traded.

It sucks because I really like Zach, but I think it's the prudent play. Be it Lance, Mac Jones or an upside guy like Mills or Graham.

Not grabbing the QB. can lose you a job just as well. Passing on Watson/Mahomes for Kirk? Having another yr of Jimmy getting hurt and not having a actual QB behind him, can lose you a job as well. How many seasons of oh our QB got hurt and now weren't out of it does Kyle get? That would be 4 seasons. We've see good HCs get fired for less.

I don't see how a rookie QB is gonna bust with this roster and Kyle? Dude has won games with Nick Mullens and Hoyer. All that rookie QB has to do is look promising and you've gotten yourself more time IMO. Let's see Kyle actually develop.

You tell everyone you can win a SB with Jimmy BUT you actually didn't at the end of the day...and the QB play a big part in not winning it. You sniffed around at multiple QBs in the off season. You're not doing that if you have a FQB on the roster.

Why does it always have to be the prudent play? What happens if SF wins like 8-9 games this yr misses the playoffs and is drafting like 18th? You're not getting a QB worth a damn and it will cost ya even more.

mid rd developmental QBs? Come on man. You pass on making a move (again) that's just as bad and worthy of losing your job imo.

I hear you, and as I said, if you're out on Jimmy this is the preferred move. Thing is I'm not, but more importantly nor is Kittle and who knows who else (I bet Jed York).

If you flat out replace Jimmy and it doesn't work I think the situation is unsalvageable.

Kyle is our best coach since Bill Walsh IMO, if I have to take the prudent option to keep him then so be it.

Under my plan you get Lance or Mac Jones and still might get your QB upgrade.

It just gives Jimmy a chance to win, get hurt again or not be good enough. Either way you then get to make the change without it costing your job.

Great debate here.

My opinion is that Kyle is supposed to be good enough to make any of these kids into a star, right? He's VERY anal about QB. Imo he's not a good evaluator for whatever reason. I wouldn't be mad if they made a move up for a QB, but I highly doubt that'll happen. If one falls to us..... then I revert to my first thought about Kyle's ability.

NY you said you like all 4 of these kids - me too. If given time - is there any reason we shouldn't want to believe kyle can't make this guy a star? That's my thinking.

But then we realize he's passed on some serious top talent the last 4 years and their first rounds have been 40/60 good/bad lol.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Great debate here.

My opinion is that Kyle is supposed to be good enough to make any of these kids into a star, right? He's VERY anal about QB. Imo he's not a good evaluator for whatever reason. I wouldn't be mad if they made a move up for a QB, but I highly doubt that'll happen. If one falls to us..... then I revert to my first thought about Kyle's ability.

NY you said you like all 4 of these kids - me too. If given time - is there any reason we shouldn't want to believe kyle can't make this guy a star? That's my thinking.

But then we realize he's passed on some serious top talent the last 4 years and their first rounds have been 40/60 good/bad lol.

you can draft the perfect QB. but if that QB doesn't want to be great, then all the coaching in the world is not going to help

Seems like all the greats had a chip on their shoulder to drive them

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Great debate here.

My opinion is that Kyle is supposed to be good enough to make any of these kids into a star, right? He's VERY anal about QB. Imo he's not a good evaluator for whatever reason. I wouldn't be mad if they made a move up for a QB, but I highly doubt that'll happen. If one falls to us..... then I revert to my first thought about Kyle's ability.

NY you said you like all 4 of these kids - me too. If given time - is there any reason we shouldn't want to believe kyle can't make this guy a star? That's my thinking.

But then we realize he's passed on some serious top talent the last 4 years and their first rounds have been 40/60 good/bad lol.

you can draft the perfect QB. but if that QB doesn't want to be great, then all the coaching in the world is not going to help

Seems like all the greats had a chip on their shoulder to drive them

Well it's still on the front office and coaches to find that guy lol

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Great debate here.

My opinion is that Kyle is supposed to be good enough to make any of these kids into a star, right? He's VERY anal about QB. Imo he's not a good evaluator for whatever reason. I wouldn't be mad if they made a move up for a QB, but I highly doubt that'll happen. If one falls to us..... then I revert to my first thought about Kyle's ability.

NY you said you like all 4 of these kids - me too. If given time - is there any reason we shouldn't want to believe kyle can't make this guy a star? That's my thinking.

But then we realize he's passed on some serious top talent the last 4 years and their first rounds have been 40/60 good/bad lol.

you can draft the perfect QB. but if that QB doesn't want to be great, then all the coaching in the world is not going to help

Seems like all the greats had a chip on their shoulder to drive them

Well it's still on the front office and coaches to find that guy lol

obviously its Zach Wilson

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Great debate here.

My opinion is that Kyle is supposed to be good enough to make any of these kids into a star, right? He's VERY anal about QB. Imo he's not a good evaluator for whatever reason. I wouldn't be mad if they made a move up for a QB, but I highly doubt that'll happen. If one falls to us..... then I revert to my first thought about Kyle's ability.

NY you said you like all 4 of these kids - me too. If given time - is there any reason we shouldn't want to believe kyle can't make this guy a star? That's my thinking.

But then we realize he's passed on some serious top talent the last 4 years and their first rounds have been 40/60 good/bad lol.

you can draft the perfect QB. but if that QB doesn't want to be great, then all the coaching in the world is not going to help

Seems like all the greats had a chip on their shoulder to drive them

Well it's still on the front office and coaches to find that guy lol

obviously its Zach Wilson

He sexy af, but I can't see this regime trading up for him.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

I hear you, and as I said, if you're out on Jimmy this is the preferred move. Thing is I'm not, but more importantly nor is Kittle and who knows who else (I bet Jed York).

If you flat out replace Jimmy and it doesn't work I think the situation is unsalvageable.

Kyle is our best coach since Bill Walsh IMO, if I have to take the prudent option to keep him then so be it.

Under my plan you get Lance or Mac Jones and still might get your QB upgrade.

It just gives Jimmy a chance to win, get hurt again or not be good enough. Either way you then get to make the change without it costing your job.

That's fine, but I don't think Kittle's opinion matters in regards to who's the QB. I would never see him throwing a player under the bus. I'm sure he wants his boy Trent taylor back as well. Doesn't mean that's a smart/right thing to do.

If you move on from Jimmy and he does nothing elsewhere. Then what? He's had a chance since mid 2017. He hasn't gotten better. I don't see Jimmy as some QB that can't be replaced. He's alex Smith level talent. That's fine, that's not great.

We're not the bengals, we shouldn't be holding onto "Andy Dalton" for 9 yrs because we're afraid we can't do better. That's settling. That's not improving. Say what you will about the Rams, but they saw that they weren't gonna win it all with Goff and made a move.

Being prudent is exactly what teams like the Bengals do.

You're moving up for Lance all the same. If they have a higher grade on a Wilson go get him! Who gives a crap about what if future picks. Jones is such a meh pick. His ceiling is Kirk cousins. Imo he's maxed out. He's not worth a top 12 pick. Would be another settling moving imo.

I'm just done with not going and getting our guy. SF has drafted a QB once in the first rd since 1998. They've sat on their hands while other times made moves. For once I have faith in a HC taking a rookie QB with top end and turning them into a FQB.

What gets a HC fired is constantly passing on good young QBs. This is yet another good draft for QBs and if they sit on their hands because of freaking Jimmy G? Ugh

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

He sexy af, but I can't see this regime trading up for him.

Why?

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Great debate here.

My opinion is that Kyle is supposed to be good enough to make any of these kids into a star, right? He's VERY anal about QB. Imo he's not a good evaluator for whatever reason. I wouldn't be mad if they made a move up for a QB, but I highly doubt that'll happen. If one falls to us..... then I revert to my first thought about Kyle's ability.

NY you said you like all 4 of these kids - me too. If given time - is there any reason we shouldn't want to believe kyle can't make this guy a star? That's my thinking.

But then we realize he's passed on some serious top talent the last 4 years and their first rounds have been 40/60 good/bad lol.

I don't think he's a bad evaluator.

I think the issue is, he thinks he can just grab Joe blow and make him a great QB...that's gonna come back to haunt him all said am done. You'd think after he saw what he did with Ryan that he would get the importance of having a top end talent at QB. You'd think he's see his bro lafleur winning like crazy with Rogers.

This is a QB league, that's what wins you SBs and gives you longevity in the league. I don't doubt Kyle as a HC and play-caller, top 5 imo. He's gonna get burnt if he doesn't get with the program at QB though.