Zach Wilson, QB, Denver Broncos

To be clear I'd prefer to go with Wilson over JG, but wouldn't expect better results year one or even two with Kyle's history with QB's.

I don't hate JG either. I just KNOW he blew a super bowl and he has regressed since the knee injury and cannot stay healthy.

Assuming he's still our guy next year I don't want to see a brace and I want to see mobility again. But who knows. The only defense I'll give him is our pass protection sucks. In the super bowl he completely buckled in the 4th and missed wide open guys etc.

Do I hope he has the mentality to get better from all that? Sure, but he needs to be on the field at 100% health first. Do I doubt that will happen, 99% lol

I think Wilson would be fantastic. He has all the tools. That being said I wonder if Kyle fries QB's brains more than develops them at this point, but that's for another thread.

After all that the real question is what would it realistically cost to move up to get the QB and will they actually do it? I still don't think so, but wouldn't mind being wrong.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

NY, I love the passion, but it's fair if other people aren't out on Jimmy.

Jimmy is now 2 years from his ACL, no more brace. His ankle set him back loads, you could see how much he struggled, couldn't drive off his back foot at all. The Saints game proved that he's a good QB, and he's still developing.

Look I love Zach Wilson, but I also see a problem with blitz recognition.

I'd back him to overcome it, but there's a chance he just can't deal with it and you end up with Darnold.

That's a risk you take with every player, the NFL is just another level from college.

Can you run that risk when you have a QB that has taken you to a Superbowl?

Yeah I'm not trying to piss on anyone's parade or anything just giving my two cents.

At what point are we gonna stop using the Jimmy excuses? 2 yrs ago? If he doesn't play up to what is expected of a top end starting QB next yr are we gonna say oh well he missed 2020, so we should give him another yr on top of that?

Look we clearly don't have the long-term answer at QB. We're at the cusp of QB purgatory with avg play at a high dollar. It's like groundhog's day (for two decades) at this position.

We can't keep expecting great QB play without actually spending up for the position. They have ONE QB under contract and he can't stay healthy. That's a big problem.

Constantly pushing down the importance of getting the right guy (and investing for it) can get you canned just as well. Jimmy sucks or doesn't take this team where they go, then what? They more than likely don't have a higher pick and I'm not thrilled about the QB draft class next yr at all.

Jimmy didn't "take" SF to the SB, he was on the team but wasn't the main reason imo. People need to realize how bad the QBs behind Jimmy are. Throw another competent QB back there and they're going probably going to a SB in 2019, the roster overall was that good.

As far as Wilson and blitz recognition, that's something you get better with. That's all about reading a defense. I don't expect college QBs to be great at that yr 1...Jimmy isn't amazing at it either, BUT the system also helps him. Same s**t with Wilson. Big difference is Wilson can actually make something positive out of a blown play like that, Jimmy will get sacked or throw an INT.

Defenses will also have to play someone like Wilson/fields much different. Man to man on 3rd downs goes out the window in most scenarios.

Well said NY. Regarding JG, he may be 3 years removed from his ACL tear but he's still shackled by it. There's zero reason for him to continue wearing that brace but he does anyway. He never got over it mentally and it shows in his timid playstyle.

If we go get Wilson, his athleticism and playmaking ability would really help keep defenses honest in playing us. Imagine this team with a legitimate NFL vertical passing game instead of what we have now.

As of right now this 49ers team hanging onto Jimmy Garoppolo is exactly what the Bengals did with Andy Dalton for a decade. They were petrified of moving on from him because they thought they couldn't do better. If we follow the same path, we'll have Garoppolo around for another 5 years, Shanahan will get fired, we'll end up with the 1st pick, and hopefully there'll be a talent like Joe Burrow for us to draft.

What is the trade chart saying we would need to give up to go to #2? I'd have no issues giving up next years 1 and an extra 3rd rounder to move up. He can be Jimmy's backup this year and take the reigns next years ready.

Originally posted by justjim77:
What is the trade chart saying we would need to give up to go to #2? I'd have no issues giving up next years 1 and an extra 3rd rounder to move up. He can be Jimmy's backup this year and take the reigns next years ready.

starting would be at least two Firsts

Originally posted by justjim77:

What is the trade chart saying we would need to give up to go to #2? I'd have no issues giving up next years 1 and an extra 3rd rounder to move up. He can be Jimmy's backup this year and take the reigns next years ready.

FWIW to go from 8 to 2 the Eagles gave up :

2016 1st round pick
2016 3rd round pick
2016 4th round pick
2017 1st round pick
2018 2nd round pick

Originally posted by evil:

FWIW to go from 8 to 2 the Eagles gave up :

2016 1st round pick
2016 3rd round pick
2016 4th round pick
2017 1st round pick
2018 2nd round pick

And that was in a draft where people were kind of meh on the QBs. 49ers would have to give up at least 12, a first next year, two second rounders and probably a couple thirds too.

Originally posted by PuckFarag10:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

NY, I love the passion, but it's fair if other people aren't out on Jimmy.

Jimmy is now 2 years from his ACL, no more brace. His ankle set him back loads, you could see how much he struggled, couldn't drive off his back foot at all. The Saints game proved that he's a good QB, and he's still developing.

Look I love Zach Wilson, but I also see a problem with blitz recognition.

I'd back him to overcome it, but there's a chance he just can't deal with it and you end up with Darnold.

That's a risk you take with every player, the NFL is just another level from college.

Can you run that risk when you have a QB that has taken you to a Superbowl?

Yeah I'm not trying to piss on anyone's parade or anything just giving my two cents.

At what point are we gonna stop using the Jimmy excuses? 2 yrs ago? If he doesn't play up to what is expected of a top end starting QB next yr are we gonna say oh well he missed 2020, so we should give him another yr on top of that?

Look we clearly don't have the long-term answer at QB. We're at the cusp of QB purgatory with avg play at a high dollar. It's like groundhog's day (for two decades) at this position.

We can't keep expecting great QB play without actually spending up for the position. They have ONE QB under contract and he can't stay healthy. That's a big problem.

Constantly pushing down the importance of getting the right guy (and investing for it) can get you canned just as well. Jimmy sucks or doesn't take this team where they go, then what? They more than likely don't have a higher pick and I'm not thrilled about the QB draft class next yr at all.

Jimmy didn't "take" SF to the SB, he was on the team but wasn't the main reason imo. People need to realize how bad the QBs behind Jimmy are. Throw another competent QB back there and they're going probably going to a SB in 2019, the roster overall was that good.

As far as Wilson and blitz recognition, that's something you get better with. That's all about reading a defense. I don't expect college QBs to be great at that yr 1...Jimmy isn't amazing at it either, BUT the system also helps him. Same s**t with Wilson. Big difference is Wilson can actually make something positive out of a blown play like that, Jimmy will get sacked or throw an INT.

Defenses will also have to play someone like Wilson/fields much different. Man to man on 3rd downs goes out the window in most scenarios.

Well said NY. Regarding JG, he may be 3 years removed from his ACL tear but he's still shackled by it. There's zero reason for him to continue wearing that brace but he does anyway. He never got over it mentally and it shows in his timid playstyle.

If we go get Wilson, his athleticism and playmaking ability would really help keep defenses honest in playing us. Imagine this team with a legitimate NFL vertical passing game instead of what we have now.

As of right now this 49ers team hanging onto Jimmy Garoppolo is exactly what the Bengals did with Andy Dalton for a decade. They were petrified of moving on from him because they thought they couldn't do better. If we follow the same path, we'll have Garoppolo around for another 5 years, Shanahan will get fired, we'll end up with the 1st pick, and hopefully there'll be a talent like Joe Burrow for us to draft.

Agreed, at this point I think we have a roster and coaching staff that can develop a rookie QB the way you should. They're gonna run the ball a ton and play great defense. They're gonna run a ton of play-action, bootlegs, sweeps, screens, RPOs, quick slants etc. that's all stuff Wilson can do.

As the season goes on, put more on his plate. This isn't Super Bowl or bust with a rookie QB. IMO it is with a QB that's on his way to makes $137M and losing talent because of that contract.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by evil:

FWIW to go from 8 to 2 the Eagles gave up :

2016 1st round pick
2016 3rd round pick
2016 4th round pick
2017 1st round pick
2018 2nd round pick

And that was in a draft where people were kind of meh on the QBs. 49ers would have to give up at least 12, a first next year, two second rounders and probably a couple thirds too.

It was a draft that had 2 QBs looked at as top 5-10 talents. This draft has double that.

Value goes down imo.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
It was a draft that had 2 QBs looked at as top 5-10 talents. This draft has double that.

Value goes down imo.

Disagree. That was a draft where neither of the top two teams needed or wanted QB's and there was a lot of skepticism regarding both Goff and Wentz. This draft you have Lawrence who is absolutely a lock for #1 and then a ton of teams that badly need quarterbacks. The price for a trade up is going to be enormous, especially if you're outside the Top 10.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by PuckFarag10:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

NY, I love the passion, but it's fair if other people aren't out on Jimmy.

Jimmy is now 2 years from his ACL, no more brace. His ankle set him back loads, you could see how much he struggled, couldn't drive off his back foot at all. The Saints game proved that he's a good QB, and he's still developing.

Look I love Zach Wilson, but I also see a problem with blitz recognition.

I'd back him to overcome it, but there's a chance he just can't deal with it and you end up with Darnold.

That's a risk you take with every player, the NFL is just another level from college.

Can you run that risk when you have a QB that has taken you to a Superbowl?

Yeah I'm not trying to piss on anyone's parade or anything just giving my two cents.

At what point are we gonna stop using the Jimmy excuses? 2 yrs ago? If he doesn't play up to what is expected of a top end starting QB next yr are we gonna say oh well he missed 2020, so we should give him another yr on top of that?

Look we clearly don't have the long-term answer at QB. We're at the cusp of QB purgatory with avg play at a high dollar. It's like groundhog's day (for two decades) at this position.

We can't keep expecting great QB play without actually spending up for the position. They have ONE QB under contract and he can't stay healthy. That's a big problem.

Constantly pushing down the importance of getting the right guy (and investing for it) can get you canned just as well. Jimmy sucks or doesn't take this team where they go, then what? They more than likely don't have a higher pick and I'm not thrilled about the QB draft class next yr at all.

Jimmy didn't "take" SF to the SB, he was on the team but wasn't the main reason imo. People need to realize how bad the QBs behind Jimmy are. Throw another competent QB back there and they're going probably going to a SB in 2019, the roster overall was that good.

As far as Wilson and blitz recognition, that's something you get better with. That's all about reading a defense. I don't expect college QBs to be great at that yr 1...Jimmy isn't amazing at it either, BUT the system also helps him. Same s**t with Wilson. Big difference is Wilson can actually make something positive out of a blown play like that, Jimmy will get sacked or throw an INT.

Defenses will also have to play someone like Wilson/fields much different. Man to man on 3rd downs goes out the window in most scenarios.

Well said NY. Regarding JG, he may be 3 years removed from his ACL tear but he's still shackled by it. There's zero reason for him to continue wearing that brace but he does anyway. He never got over it mentally and it shows in his timid playstyle.

If we go get Wilson, his athleticism and playmaking ability would really help keep defenses honest in playing us. Imagine this team with a legitimate NFL vertical passing game instead of what we have now.

As of right now this 49ers team hanging onto Jimmy Garoppolo is exactly what the Bengals did with Andy Dalton for a decade. They were petrified of moving on from him because they thought they couldn't do better. If we follow the same path, we'll have Garoppolo around for another 5 years, Shanahan will get fired, we'll end up with the 1st pick, and hopefully there'll be a talent like Joe Burrow for us to draft.

Agreed, at this point I think we have a roster and coaching staff that can develop a rookie QB the way you should. They're gonna run the ball a ton and play great defense. They're gonna run a ton of play-action, bootlegs, sweeps, screens, RPOs, quick slants etc. that's all stuff Wilson can do.

As the season goes on, put more on his plate. This isn't Super Bowl or bust with a rookie QB. IMO it is with a QB that's on his way to makes $137M and losing talent because of that contract.

Indeed. The Super Bowl or bust mentality needs to go. 2019 was just magic but it's long gone just like that super roster. If we get Wilson and he develops into the QB I think he'll be then we can transition from run first to a more passing oriented offense (hopefully) or at least one that's more balanced.

The advantages of having a good QB on a rookie deal shouldn't be overstated either. It's a cap cleanser that makes building a better team much easier, but everyone knows that.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
It was a draft that had 2 QBs looked at as top 5-10 talents. This draft has double that.

Value goes down imo.

Disagree. That was a draft where neither of the top two teams needed or wanted QB's and there was a lot of skepticism regarding both Goff and Wentz. This draft you have Lawrence who is absolutely a lock for #1 and then a ton of teams that badly need quarterbacks. The price for a trade up is going to be enormous, especially if you're outside the Top 10.

This, and don't forget that next year's QB class isn't anything to be excited about. WIth so many teams wanting a qb, those teams willing to listen to offers will ask for a haul to move up.

We can talk all we want about getting Zach Wilson. Lets face facts. The truth is that the GM/Coach won't trade up that high. We have to accept the fact that they do not intend to draft a franchise quarterback. The prediction is that they stay with Garoppolo because they have no confidence in drafting a QB. They will probably use a lower round pick on a QB - probably 3rd, just to draft one. This QB will challenge Rosen for the backup role. And when Garoppolo gets hurt after two games, Shanahan will play yoyo with Rosen and whoever gets drafted. The backups will have poor games. And we will be right back to where are now next year.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Disagree. That was a draft where neither of the top two teams needed or wanted QB's and there was a lot of skepticism regarding both Goff and Wentz. This draft you have Lawrence who is absolutely a lock for #1 and then a ton of teams that badly need quarterbacks. The price for a trade up is going to be enormous, especially if you're outside the Top 10.

Disagree, there was multiple teams in the top 10 in 2016 that needed a QB (including SF). There was only 2 QBs looked at as top 10 picks. Goff/Wentz. There's double that at the QB position this yr. I wouldn't say Wilson or Fields are regarded as higher prospects then them either (fields less then stellar season, Wilson not playing anyone) same goes for lance.

Imo picks this year are even more valuable based on a smaller cap as well.

Originally posted by ComeOnDeberg:
We can talk all we want about getting Zach Wilson. Lets face facts. The truth is that the GM/Coach won't trade up that high. We have to accept the fact that they do not intend to draft a franchise quarterback. The prediction is that they stay with Garoppolo because they have no confidence in drafting a QB. They will probably use a lower round pick on a QB - probably 3rd, just to draft one. This QB will challenge Rosen for the backup role. And when Garoppolo gets hurt after two games, Shanahan will play yoyo with Rosen and whoever gets drafted. The backups will have poor games. And we will be right back to where are now next year.

Thats the spirit

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by ComeOnDeberg:
We can talk all we want about getting Zach Wilson. Lets face facts. The truth is that the GM/Coach won't trade up that high. We have to accept the fact that they do not intend to draft a franchise quarterback. The prediction is that they stay with Garoppolo because they have no confidence in drafting a QB. They will probably use a lower round pick on a QB - probably 3rd, just to draft one. This QB will challenge Rosen for the backup role. And when Garoppolo gets hurt after two games, Shanahan will play yoyo with Rosen and whoever gets drafted. The backups will have poor games. And we will be right back to where are now next year.

Thats the spirit

We should also be honest and accept the reality that Bama QB Mac Jones is more of a Kyle guy and fit for his offense than Wilson.