Zach Wilson, QB, Denver Broncos

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:
His pay isn't relevant to that discussion. We're talking about things we'd have to give up to acquire any of these player. For JG that's absolutely nothing because we have him under control already. Besides, his pay is pretty competitive for the position.

We have a roster that will probably be better than the one that we went to the Super Bowl with a year ago. I don't see any reason to try to get cute and take big risks at the QB position. I don't see anybody in the draft that can make us better next year. I don't see anybody in free agency that will make us better next year. I don't see anybody who is actually going to be traded that will make us better next year. There's never been a rookie QB to start in a Super Bowl, I don't thinks that's just by chance.

Even just drafting a QB in the first round, without intention to start him, is going to hurt your team because it'll be a distraction all year and is denies the team of a talented player who could contribute. I imagine Rodgers would of liked to have Tee Higgins or even Justin Jefferson out there in that NFC champ game instead of a backup QB watching him with a clipboard.

One in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Defend your stance. The 2021 roster will be better than the 2019 roster.

Me having to do this makes me question how much you know this team, but sure:

2019 roster went 13-3 with the #2 defense and #2 in rushing in the NFL, 7 minutes away from winning the SB.

In 2019 we had arguably the best defensive line in the league with Bosa, Buckner, AA and Ford. Behind them were former pro bowler Kwon Alexander, Fred Warner and Greenlaw at SAM. The secondary consisted of All Pro Sherman, Moseley and top 3 Nickel in the league in Williams, Ward and Tartt. Ward also played at a top 5 FS level that year.

2021 we no longer have All Pro Buckner and who knows about Ford. We replaced Buckner with Kinlaw, and we have nothing opposite Bosa. Bosa himself is coming off of a torn ACL.

Our linebackers will still have Warner and Greenlaw, but be without Kwon. Kwon, Warner and Greenlaw > Warner, Greenlaw and Shaair

Do I really need to get into our secondary? Zero Corners, high likelihood Sherman and Kwuan isn't coming back. Tartt is also likely gone.

2021 offensive line may or may not have Williams or Richburg. That would leave holes at the 2 most important spots on the line. In 2019 we had Staley and Richburg. Aside from that, the offense does have the chance to be better or the same depending on a lot of things, QB position being the biggest factor, if it is Jimmy and can he stay healthy for a whole season again and if it isn't Jimmy then who was he replaced by. That can be said about pretty much all of our best players on offense (health), Mostert, Kittle, Deebo etc.

Now defend your statement and explain to me how the 2021 roster will be better

Because the core of that team is still here and still young. Guys were are going to lose like Sherman have been in decline for several years. He was clearly a liability against the faster guys in the league.

We are in relatively good cap space compared to a lot of the league and with some moves we will have enough cap room to bring back Williams, Juice, Mosley, K'waun, Hyder, Verrett, Jones, and Thomas if we want him. We'll have to cut Ford and Richburg, but neither are guys we can't replace. Ford hasn't lived up to his billing since we got him. On top of that we can still add a player or three in FA. Alex Mack, a safety and another pass rusher. We're going to have 35 million, maybe more if Garoppolo is restructured, and we back backload contracts for bigger payouts in the 3rd or 4th years after the new TV deal. That's what everyone is going to do anyway. The cap isn't going to hold us back the way people are worried about.

Kinlaw is going to improve. Having Bosa back will improve his production. Yes, Bosa's coming back from an ACL, but by the time the season starts he will have been almost a full year out from the injury, more than enough time to recover.

In short, the front 7 on defense will be just as elite as it was with more experience from the core of that group. The pass rush will be there which will cover up a lot of deficiencies that exist in the secondary, like it did in 2019.

On offense Garoppolo comes back with all of the same playmakers that were there in 2019 outside of Sanders, who is more than replaced by Aiyuk.. We will resign Williams and add a new center. There's also potential to upgrade the guards. Up the middle pressure was a problem at times in 2019, including the super bowl. Trent is an upgrade over Staley at the end of his career.

All this is before the draft which should add at least one or two contributing players to the roster.

You're entire argument is based on the assumption that we won't be able to resign the players we want. I don't believe that to be the case at all. We're going to lose Sherman and we're going to cut Ford and Richburg. I don't see anybody else leaving that we really want to keep. Williams is going to be the priority signing and after him are some of those defensive players we talked about. But the point is we're going to have 35 million to play with before we even talk about restructuring Jimmy's contract to save another 9 or 10 million. We have a thousand ways to structure contracts to make room this year and make up for it in bigger salary years.

And what is your entire argument based on? Literally everything you said is assumption since you know, none of it happened yet and nobody knows what the 2021 roster looks like. Common sense would tell you to at least see what the roster actually is before making a statement that it's better than one that was just in the SB and ranked as high as it was offensively and defensively.

The irony of that was pretty funny to read.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:
His pay isn't relevant to that discussion. We're talking about things we'd have to give up to acquire any of these player. For JG that's absolutely nothing because we have him under control already. Besides, his pay is pretty competitive for the position.

We have a roster that will probably be better than the one that we went to the Super Bowl with a year ago. I don't see any reason to try to get cute and take big risks at the QB position. I don't see anybody in the draft that can make us better next year. I don't see anybody in free agency that will make us better next year. I don't see anybody who is actually going to be traded that will make us better next year. There's never been a rookie QB to start in a Super Bowl, I don't thinks that's just by chance.

Even just drafting a QB in the first round, without intention to start him, is going to hurt your team because it'll be a distraction all year and is denies the team of a talented player who could contribute. I imagine Rodgers would of liked to have Tee Higgins or even Justin Jefferson out there in that NFC champ game instead of a backup QB watching him with a clipboard.

One in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Defend your stance. The 2021 roster will be better than the 2019 roster.

Me having to do this makes me question how much you know this team, but sure:

2019 roster went 13-3 with the #2 defense and #2 in rushing in the NFL, 7 minutes away from winning the SB.

In 2019 we had arguably the best defensive line in the league with Bosa, Buckner, AA and Ford. Behind them were former pro bowler Kwon Alexander, Fred Warner and Greenlaw at SAM. The secondary consisted of All Pro Sherman, Moseley and top 3 Nickel in the league in Williams, Ward and Tartt. Ward also played at a top 5 FS level that year.

2021 we no longer have All Pro Buckner and who knows about Ford. We replaced Buckner with Kinlaw, and we have nothing opposite Bosa. Bosa himself is coming off of a torn ACL.

Our linebackers will still have Warner and Greenlaw, but be without Kwon. Kwon, Warner and Greenlaw > Warner, Greenlaw and Shaair

Do I really need to get into our secondary? Zero Corners, high likelihood Sherman and Kwuan isn't coming back. Tartt is also likely gone.

2021 offensive line may or may not have Williams or Richburg. That would leave holes at the 2 most important spots on the line. In 2019 we had Staley and Richburg. Aside from that, the offense does have the chance to be better or the same depending on a lot of things, QB position being the biggest factor, if it is Jimmy and can he stay healthy for a whole season again and if it isn't Jimmy then who was he replaced by. That can be said about pretty much all of our best players on offense (health), Mostert, Kittle, Deebo etc.

Now defend your statement and explain to me how the 2021 roster will be better

Because the core of that team is still here and still young. Guys were are going to lose like Sherman have been in decline for several years. He was clearly a liability against the faster guys in the league.

We are in relatively good cap space compared to a lot of the league and with some moves we will have enough cap room to bring back Williams, Juice, Mosley, K'waun, Hyder, Verrett, Jones, and Thomas if we want him. We'll have to cut Ford and Richburg, but neither are guys we can't replace. Ford hasn't lived up to his billing since we got him. On top of that we can still add a player or three in FA. Alex Mack, a safety and another pass rusher. We're going to have 35 million, maybe more if Garoppolo is restructured, and we back backload contracts for bigger payouts in the 3rd or 4th years after the new TV deal. That's what everyone is going to do anyway. The cap isn't going to hold us back the way people are worried about.

Kinlaw is going to improve. Having Bosa back will improve his production. Yes, Bosa's coming back from an ACL, but by the time the season starts he will have been almost a full year out from the injury, more than enough time to recover.

In short, the front 7 on defense will be just as elite as it was with more experience from the core of that group. The pass rush will be there which will cover up a lot of deficiencies that exist in the secondary, like it did in 2019.

On offense Garoppolo comes back with all of the same playmakers that were there in 2019 outside of Sanders, who is more than replaced by Aiyuk.. We will resign Williams and add a new center. There's also potential to upgrade the guards. Up the middle pressure was a problem at times in 2019, including the super bowl. Trent is an upgrade over Staley at the end of his career.

All this is before the draft which should add at least one or two contributing players to the roster.

You're entire argument is based on the assumption that we won't be able to resign the players we want. I don't believe that to be the case at all. We're going to lose Sherman and we're going to cut Ford and Richburg. I don't see anybody else leaving that we really want to keep. Williams is going to be the priority signing and after him are some of those defensive players we talked about. But the point is we're going to have 35 million to play with before we even talk about restructuring Jimmy's contract to save another 9 or 10 million. We have a thousand ways to structure contracts to make room this year and make up for it in bigger salary years.

And what is your entire argument based on? Literally everything you said is assumption since you know, none of it happened yet and nobody knows what the 2021 roster looks like. Common sense would tell you to at least see what the roster actually is before making a statement that it's better than one that was just in the SB and ranked as high as it was offensively and defensively.

That's the part you want to talk about? I don't believe I said you were wrong to make an assumption but instead made an argument against the specific assumption that you made, that we were going to lose these important parts. Now your doing some kind of logical gymnastics to say I can't make assumptions about the roster but you can.

Literally everything that gets talked about on this board is supposition.

.

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:
His pay isn't relevant to that discussion. We're talking about things we'd have to give up to acquire any of these player. For JG that's absolutely nothing because we have him under control already. Besides, his pay is pretty competitive for the position.

We have a roster that will probably be better than the one that we went to the Super Bowl with a year ago. I don't see any reason to try to get cute and take big risks at the QB position. I don't see anybody in the draft that can make us better next year. I don't see anybody in free agency that will make us better next year. I don't see anybody who is actually going to be traded that will make us better next year. There's never been a rookie QB to start in a Super Bowl, I don't thinks that's just by chance.

Even just drafting a QB in the first round, without intention to start him, is going to hurt your team because it'll be a distraction all year and is denies the team of a talented player who could contribute. I imagine Rodgers would of liked to have Tee Higgins or even Justin Jefferson out there in that NFC champ game instead of a backup QB watching him with a clipboard.

One in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Defend your stance. The 2021 roster will be better than the 2019 roster.

Me having to do this makes me question how much you know this team, but sure:

2019 roster went 13-3 with the #2 defense and #2 in rushing in the NFL, 7 minutes away from winning the SB.

In 2019 we had arguably the best defensive line in the league with Bosa, Buckner, AA and Ford. Behind them were former pro bowler Kwon Alexander, Fred Warner and Greenlaw at SAM. The secondary consisted of All Pro Sherman, Moseley and top 3 Nickel in the league in Williams, Ward and Tartt. Ward also played at a top 5 FS level that year.

2021 we no longer have All Pro Buckner and who knows about Ford. We replaced Buckner with Kinlaw, and we have nothing opposite Bosa. Bosa himself is coming off of a torn ACL.

Our linebackers will still have Warner and Greenlaw, but be without Kwon. Kwon, Warner and Greenlaw > Warner, Greenlaw and Shaair

Do I really need to get into our secondary? Zero Corners, high likelihood Sherman and Kwuan isn't coming back. Tartt is also likely gone.

2021 offensive line may or may not have Williams or Richburg. That would leave holes at the 2 most important spots on the line. In 2019 we had Staley and Richburg. Aside from that, the offense does have the chance to be better or the same depending on a lot of things, QB position being the biggest factor, if it is Jimmy and can he stay healthy for a whole season again and if it isn't Jimmy then who was he replaced by. That can be said about pretty much all of our best players on offense (health), Mostert, Kittle, Deebo etc.

Now defend your statement and explain to me how the 2021 roster will be better

Because the core of that team is still here and still young. Guys were are going to lose like Sherman have been in decline for several years. He was clearly a liability against the faster guys in the league.

We are in relatively good cap space compared to a lot of the league and with some moves we will have enough cap room to bring back Williams, Juice, Mosley, K'waun, Hyder, Verrett, Jones, and Thomas if we want him. We'll have to cut Ford and Richburg, but neither are guys we can't replace. Ford hasn't lived up to his billing since we got him. On top of that we can still add a player or three in FA. Alex Mack, a safety and another pass rusher. We're going to have 35 million, maybe more if Garoppolo is restructured, and we back backload contracts for bigger payouts in the 3rd or 4th years after the new TV deal. That's what everyone is going to do anyway. The cap isn't going to hold us back the way people are worried about.

Kinlaw is going to improve. Having Bosa back will improve his production. Yes, Bosa's coming back from an ACL, but by the time the season starts he will have been almost a full year out from the injury, more than enough time to recover.

In short, the front 7 on defense will be just as elite as it was with more experience from the core of that group. The pass rush will be there which will cover up a lot of deficiencies that exist in the secondary, like it did in 2019.

On offense Garoppolo comes back with all of the same playmakers that were there in 2019 outside of Sanders, who is more than replaced by Aiyuk.. We will resign Williams and add a new center. There's also potential to upgrade the guards. Up the middle pressure was a problem at times in 2019, including the super bowl. Trent is an upgrade over Staley at the end of his career.

All this is before the draft which should add at least one or two contributing players to the roster.

You're entire argument is based on the assumption that we won't be able to resign the players we want. I don't believe that to be the case at all. We're going to lose Sherman and we're going to cut Ford and Richburg. I don't see anybody else leaving that we really want to keep. Williams is going to be the priority signing and after him are some of those defensive players we talked about. But the point is we're going to have 35 million to play with before we even talk about restructuring Jimmy's contract to save another 9 or 10 million. We have a thousand ways to structure contracts to make room this year and make up for it in bigger salary years.

And what is your entire argument based on? Literally everything you said is assumption since you know, none of it happened yet and nobody knows what the 2021 roster looks like. Common sense would tell you to at least see what the roster actually is before making a statement that it's better than one that was just in the SB and ranked as high as it was offensively and defensively.

That's the part you want to talk about? I don't believe I said you were wrong to make an assumption but instead made an argument against the specific assumption that you made, that we were going to lose these important parts. Now your doing some kind of logical gymnastics to say I can't make assumptions about the roster but you can.

Literally everything that gets talked about on this board is supposition.

.

The specific assumption that I made in losing important parts WILL become fact, hold me to it in saying that we will lose important players of that 2019 roster. I'll use Sherm since you said he lost a step and was leaving anyways. While in fact true that he certainly did lose a step and did get burned a few times, with regard to your original statement of the 2021 roster will be better than the 2019 roster, Sherm was one of the best CBs in the league that year and locked everyone he went up against more often than not. What player do we have that replaces that in 2021? I'll talk about another thing that is incredibly naive for you to say/think: We will bring back Williams, Verrett, Juice, Moseley, Kwuan, Jones and Solly if we want him AND STILL have enough to bring in a player or 3 Mack, Safety and Edge. I guess I can't say that won't happen but I'm a lot less optimistic about it than you are when the cap took a dive due to COVID and we aren't one of the teams with a lot of room to work.

The bolded is one of the dumbest statements I've seen and is far from the truth. You gotta be new to the board or not know the definition of what you wrote to say LITERALLY everything that gets talked about on the board is supposition. Previous seasons are always discussed and backed with statistical facts. I provided facts from 2019 in this conversation with you alone. With that said, some of the other things you said in this thread now makes a little more sense to me

Originally posted by boomer49er:
Because it's not. He's the 12th highest QB by average and the 11th by actual 2021 hit. Considering a lot of the starting QBs in the NFL are still working on their rookie deals that's a really fair deal. There's no way to get a QB for cheaper than that and expect to be as good this year.

When the QB can't stay on the field & is pretty avg when on the field from that aspect he's overpaid. Period. If you can find a QB that's just as capable/cheaper then yeah it's all relative.

You keep assuming the roster is gonna be better than the 2019, and most in here will objective say that's simply not true.

I was reading the stuff at the top of the home page and there are so many takes on what the Niners will do that one of them is bound to be right. We have them taking Fields at 12 and then trading Jimmy. We have them trading for Darnold. There's one that has them trading back and getting draft picks and then taking a safety. The Watson story is still hanging around. I'm sure there are some that have them taking Jones or moving up to take Wilson. No stone has been left unturned.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I was reading the stuff at the top of the home page and there are so many takes on what the Niners will do that one of them is bound to be right. We have them taking Fields at 12 and then trading Jimmy. We have them trading for Darnold. There's one that has them trading back and getting draft picks and then taking a safety. The Watson story is still hanging around. I'm sure there are some that have them taking Jones or moving up to take Wilson. No stone has been left unturned.

if we are going QB, get the guy we want. Don't be the last ones to get scraps and pretend we can make a dolla out of 15 cents. rather go BPA at that point

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by boomer49er:
Because it's not. He's the 12th highest QB by average and the 11th by actual 2021 hit. Considering a lot of the starting QBs in the NFL are still working on their rookie deals that's a really fair deal. There's no way to get a QB for cheaper than that and expect to be as good this year.

When the QB can't stay on the field & is pretty avg when on the field from that aspect he's overpaid. Period. If you can find a QB that's just as capable/cheaper then yeah it's all relative.

You keep assuming the roster is gonna be better than the 2019, and most in here will objective say that's simply not true.

Hehe this is funny because everyone is assuming in here.

Case in point - QB that's just as capable/cheaper.

The cheaper part is true but the capable is assuming.

I think i'm off the Wilson train simply bc i think it will cost too much to move up to get him. He's a perfect fit for the Jets so you'd have to convince them to trade you and a first this year and next year will not simply be enough. The Panthers offered a lot for Stafford so you better believe they will offer the Jets too and they have better picks. Not too mention any other QB needy team (there are a lot of them) wanting to move up too.

Originally posted by Alfienator:
Hehe this is funny because everyone is assuming in here.

Case in point - QB that's just as capable/cheaper.

The cheaper part is true but the capable is assuming.

Are we assuming Jimmy is some high level talent? If so there's a debate for that

Originally posted by miked1978:
I think i'm off the Wilson train simply bc i think it will cost too much to move up to get him. He's a perfect fit for the Jets so you'd have to convince them to trade you and a first this year and next year will not simply be enough. The Panthers offered a lot for Stafford so you better believe they will offer the Jets too and they have better picks. Not too mention any other QB needy team (there are a lot of them) wanting to move up too.

Maybe the Panthers want a different QB, maybe they were offering so much for Stafford because he's a 12 yr NFL starting QB that is still a top 10 talent? Who knows. I wouldn't compare Stafford to rookies.

If you don't think Wilson or whomever in this draft is worth a move up, that's cool...if you think there's a QB(s) that are franchise type guys, future picks shouldn't matter all that much.

Originally posted by miked1978:
I think i'm off the Wilson train simply bc i think it will cost too much to move up to get him. He's a perfect fit for the Jets so you'd have to convince them to trade you and a first this year and next year will not simply be enough. The Panthers offered a lot for Stafford so you better believe they will offer the Jets too and they have better picks. Not too mention any other QB needy team (there are a lot of them) wanting to move up too.

Panthers and even Denver could look to trade up and they possess picks inside the top 10. Being able to stay inside the top 10 gives the Jets a chance to draft one of the top prospects at positions of need (OL, WR, CB).

If I am the Jets, I would prefer to get a top 10 prospect in the class if I am moving off of 2. Quality > Quantity, especially given that they already possess a boatload of capital in these next two draft classes.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Alfienator:
Hehe this is funny because everyone is assuming in here.

Case in point - QB that's just as capable/cheaper.

The cheaper part is true but the capable is assuming.

Are we assuming Jimmy is some high level talent? If so there's a debate for that

No, just pointing out everyone is assuming.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Alfienator:
Hehe this is funny because everyone is assuming in here.

Case in point - QB that's just as capable/cheaper.

The cheaper part is true but the capable is assuming.

Are we assuming Jimmy is some high level talent? If so there's a debate for that

You could recall that after 2019 Jimmy was named as the 43th best player in the NFL, at any position, and 8th at QB. That's voted on by other NFL players, guys that he plays with and against. He is a high level talent, you just don't like him.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:
His pay isn't relevant to that discussion. We're talking about things we'd have to give up to acquire any of these player. For JG that's absolutely nothing because we have him under control already. Besides, his pay is pretty competitive for the position.

We have a roster that will probably be better than the one that we went to the Super Bowl with a year ago. I don't see any reason to try to get cute and take big risks at the QB position. I don't see anybody in the draft that can make us better next year. I don't see anybody in free agency that will make us better next year. I don't see anybody who is actually going to be traded that will make us better next year. There's never been a rookie QB to start in a Super Bowl, I don't thinks that's just by chance.

Even just drafting a QB in the first round, without intention to start him, is going to hurt your team because it'll be a distraction all year and is denies the team of a talented player who could contribute. I imagine Rodgers would of liked to have Tee Higgins or even Justin Jefferson out there in that NFC champ game instead of a backup QB watching him with a clipboard.

One in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Defend your stance. The 2021 roster will be better than the 2019 roster.

Me having to do this makes me question how much you know this team, but sure:

2019 roster went 13-3 with the #2 defense and #2 in rushing in the NFL, 7 minutes away from winning the SB.

In 2019 we had arguably the best defensive line in the league with Bosa, Buckner, AA and Ford. Behind them were former pro bowler Kwon Alexander, Fred Warner and Greenlaw at SAM. The secondary consisted of All Pro Sherman, Moseley and top 3 Nickel in the league in Williams, Ward and Tartt. Ward also played at a top 5 FS level that year.

2021 we no longer have All Pro Buckner and who knows about Ford. We replaced Buckner with Kinlaw, and we have nothing opposite Bosa. Bosa himself is coming off of a torn ACL.

Our linebackers will still have Warner and Greenlaw, but be without Kwon. Kwon, Warner and Greenlaw > Warner, Greenlaw and Shaair

Do I really need to get into our secondary? Zero Corners, high likelihood Sherman and Kwuan isn't coming back. Tartt is also likely gone.

2021 offensive line may or may not have Williams or Richburg. That would leave holes at the 2 most important spots on the line. In 2019 we had Staley and Richburg. Aside from that, the offense does have the chance to be better or the same depending on a lot of things, QB position being the biggest factor, if it is Jimmy and can he stay healthy for a whole season again and if it isn't Jimmy then who was he replaced by. That can be said about pretty much all of our best players on offense (health), Mostert, Kittle, Deebo etc.

Now defend your statement and explain to me how the 2021 roster will be better

Because the core of that team is still here and still young. Guys were are going to lose like Sherman have been in decline for several years. He was clearly a liability against the faster guys in the league.

We are in relatively good cap space compared to a lot of the league and with some moves we will have enough cap room to bring back Williams, Juice, Mosley, K'waun, Hyder, Verrett, Jones, and Thomas if we want him. We'll have to cut Ford and Richburg, but neither are guys we can't replace. Ford hasn't lived up to his billing since we got him. On top of that we can still add a player or three in FA. Alex Mack, a safety and another pass rusher. We're going to have 35 million, maybe more if Garoppolo is restructured, and we back backload contracts for bigger payouts in the 3rd or 4th years after the new TV deal. That's what everyone is going to do anyway. The cap isn't going to hold us back the way people are worried about.

Kinlaw is going to improve. Having Bosa back will improve his production. Yes, Bosa's coming back from an ACL, but by the time the season starts he will have been almost a full year out from the injury, more than enough time to recover.

In short, the front 7 on defense will be just as elite as it was with more experience from the core of that group. The pass rush will be there which will cover up a lot of deficiencies that exist in the secondary, like it did in 2019.

On offense Garoppolo comes back with all of the same playmakers that were there in 2019 outside of Sanders, who is more than replaced by Aiyuk.. We will resign Williams and add a new center. There's also potential to upgrade the guards. Up the middle pressure was a problem at times in 2019, including the super bowl. Trent is an upgrade over Staley at the end of his career.

All this is before the draft which should add at least one or two contributing players to the roster.

You're entire argument is based on the assumption that we won't be able to resign the players we want. I don't believe that to be the case at all. We're going to lose Sherman and we're going to cut Ford and Richburg. I don't see anybody else leaving that we really want to keep. Williams is going to be the priority signing and after him are some of those defensive players we talked about. But the point is we're going to have 35 million to play with before we even talk about restructuring Jimmy's contract to save another 9 or 10 million. We have a thousand ways to structure contracts to make room this year and make up for it in bigger salary years.

And what is your entire argument based on? Literally everything you said is assumption since you know, none of it happened yet and nobody knows what the 2021 roster looks like. Common sense would tell you to at least see what the roster actually is before making a statement that it's better than one that was just in the SB and ranked as high as it was offensively and defensively.

That's the part you want to talk about? I don't believe I said you were wrong to make an assumption but instead made an argument against the specific assumption that you made, that we were going to lose these important parts. Now your doing some kind of logical gymnastics to say I can't make assumptions about the roster but you can.

Literally everything that gets talked about on this board is supposition.

.

The specific assumption that I made in losing important parts WILL become fact, hold me to it in saying that we will lose important players of that 2019 roster. I'll use Sherm since you said he lost a step and was leaving anyways. While in fact true that he certainly did lose a step and did get burned a few times, with regard to your original statement of the 2021 roster will be better than the 2019 roster, Sherm was one of the best CBs in the league that year and locked everyone he went up against more often than not. What player do we have that replaces that in 2021? I'll talk about another thing that is incredibly naive for you to say/think: We will bring back Williams, Verrett, Juice, Moseley, Kwuan, Jones and Solly if we want him AND STILL have enough to bring in a player or 3 Mack, Safety and Edge. I guess I can't say that won't happen but I'm a lot less optimistic about it than you are when the cap took a dive due to COVID and we aren't one of the teams with a lot of room to work.

The bolded is one of the dumbest statements I've seen and is far from the truth. You gotta be new to the board or not know the definition of what you wrote to say LITERALLY everything that gets talked about on the board is supposition. Previous seasons are always discussed and backed with statistical facts. I provided facts from 2019 in this conversation with you alone. With that said, some of the other things you said in this thread now makes a little more sense to me

You're on the draft board, a board specifically made to talk about the future, how players are going to transition from college to pro, and who is going to pick them....and you think that's not entirely based on assumptions? Ok.

Sherman was good but has always been limited. He doesn't cover the top receiver in most cases, he covers whoever the other team wants him to. You can scheme to or away from him depending on what you want to do because he doesn't follow the top guy like most elite CBs would.

And yes, we will be able to bring those players back and add more with the cap room we have. Every team is operating under the same lowered cap and we have a good chunk of room to work with. We also have a stable coach and GM and are a place players will want to play because they know we have a roster that can win a championship. There are teams like the Saints who are 70 million over the cap right now. Lots of players are going to be cut and this is going to be actual good players who can help teams. It's going to hurt the market for every player. We also know the cap is going to go way up after this year and can backload contracts to the 2nd and 3rd years with higher bonuses to get players to sign. The cap isn't going to be the giant hurdle that you think it is.

I have full faith that Lynch will bring back and in the talent the team needs and that the suits will make the numbers work to do it.

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:
His pay isn't relevant to that discussion. We're talking about things we'd have to give up to acquire any of these player. For JG that's absolutely nothing because we have him under control already. Besides, his pay is pretty competitive for the position.

We have a roster that will probably be better than the one that we went to the Super Bowl with a year ago. I don't see any reason to try to get cute and take big risks at the QB position. I don't see anybody in the draft that can make us better next year. I don't see anybody in free agency that will make us better next year. I don't see anybody who is actually going to be traded that will make us better next year. There's never been a rookie QB to start in a Super Bowl, I don't thinks that's just by chance.

Even just drafting a QB in the first round, without intention to start him, is going to hurt your team because it'll be a distraction all year and is denies the team of a talented player who could contribute. I imagine Rodgers would of liked to have Tee Higgins or even Justin Jefferson out there in that NFC champ game instead of a backup QB watching him with a clipboard.

One in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Defend your stance. The 2021 roster will be better than the 2019 roster.

Me having to do this makes me question how much you know this team, but sure:

2019 roster went 13-3 with the #2 defense and #2 in rushing in the NFL, 7 minutes away from winning the SB.

In 2019 we had arguably the best defensive line in the league with Bosa, Buckner, AA and Ford. Behind them were former pro bowler Kwon Alexander, Fred Warner and Greenlaw at SAM. The secondary consisted of All Pro Sherman, Moseley and top 3 Nickel in the league in Williams, Ward and Tartt. Ward also played at a top 5 FS level that year.

2021 we no longer have All Pro Buckner and who knows about Ford. We replaced Buckner with Kinlaw, and we have nothing opposite Bosa. Bosa himself is coming off of a torn ACL.

Our linebackers will still have Warner and Greenlaw, but be without Kwon. Kwon, Warner and Greenlaw > Warner, Greenlaw and Shaair

Do I really need to get into our secondary? Zero Corners, high likelihood Sherman and Kwuan isn't coming back. Tartt is also likely gone.

2021 offensive line may or may not have Williams or Richburg. That would leave holes at the 2 most important spots on the line. In 2019 we had Staley and Richburg. Aside from that, the offense does have the chance to be better or the same depending on a lot of things, QB position being the biggest factor, if it is Jimmy and can he stay healthy for a whole season again and if it isn't Jimmy then who was he replaced by. That can be said about pretty much all of our best players on offense (health), Mostert, Kittle, Deebo etc.

Now defend your statement and explain to me how the 2021 roster will be better

Because the core of that team is still here and still young. Guys were are going to lose like Sherman have been in decline for several years. He was clearly a liability against the faster guys in the league.

We are in relatively good cap space compared to a lot of the league and with some moves we will have enough cap room to bring back Williams, Juice, Mosley, K'waun, Hyder, Verrett, Jones, and Thomas if we want him. We'll have to cut Ford and Richburg, but neither are guys we can't replace. Ford hasn't lived up to his billing since we got him. On top of that we can still add a player or three in FA. Alex Mack, a safety and another pass rusher. We're going to have 35 million, maybe more if Garoppolo is restructured, and we back backload contracts for bigger payouts in the 3rd or 4th years after the new TV deal. That's what everyone is going to do anyway. The cap isn't going to hold us back the way people are worried about.

Kinlaw is going to improve. Having Bosa back will improve his production. Yes, Bosa's coming back from an ACL, but by the time the season starts he will have been almost a full year out from the injury, more than enough time to recover.

In short, the front 7 on defense will be just as elite as it was with more experience from the core of that group. The pass rush will be there which will cover up a lot of deficiencies that exist in the secondary, like it did in 2019.

On offense Garoppolo comes back with all of the same playmakers that were there in 2019 outside of Sanders, who is more than replaced by Aiyuk.. We will resign Williams and add a new center. There's also potential to upgrade the guards. Up the middle pressure was a problem at times in 2019, including the super bowl. Trent is an upgrade over Staley at the end of his career.

All this is before the draft which should add at least one or two contributing players to the roster.

You're entire argument is based on the assumption that we won't be able to resign the players we want. I don't believe that to be the case at all. We're going to lose Sherman and we're going to cut Ford and Richburg. I don't see anybody else leaving that we really want to keep. Williams is going to be the priority signing and after him are some of those defensive players we talked about. But the point is we're going to have 35 million to play with before we even talk about restructuring Jimmy's contract to save another 9 or 10 million. We have a thousand ways to structure contracts to make room this year and make up for it in bigger salary years.

And what is your entire argument based on? Literally everything you said is assumption since you know, none of it happened yet and nobody knows what the 2021 roster looks like. Common sense would tell you to at least see what the roster actually is before making a statement that it's better than one that was just in the SB and ranked as high as it was offensively and defensively.

That's the part you want to talk about? I don't believe I said you were wrong to make an assumption but instead made an argument against the specific assumption that you made, that we were going to lose these important parts. Now your doing some kind of logical gymnastics to say I can't make assumptions about the roster but you can.

Literally everything that gets talked about on this board is supposition.

.

The specific assumption that I made in losing important parts WILL become fact, hold me to it in saying that we will lose important players of that 2019 roster. I'll use Sherm since you said he lost a step and was leaving anyways. While in fact true that he certainly did lose a step and did get burned a few times, with regard to your original statement of the 2021 roster will be better than the 2019 roster, Sherm was one of the best CBs in the league that year and locked everyone he went up against more often than not. What player do we have that replaces that in 2021? I'll talk about another thing that is incredibly naive for you to say/think: We will bring back Williams, Verrett, Juice, Moseley, Kwuan, Jones and Solly if we want him AND STILL have enough to bring in a player or 3 Mack, Safety and Edge. I guess I can't say that won't happen but I'm a lot less optimistic about it than you are when the cap took a dive due to COVID and we aren't one of the teams with a lot of room to work.

The bolded is one of the dumbest statements I've seen and is far from the truth. You gotta be new to the board or not know the definition of what you wrote to say LITERALLY everything that gets talked about on the board is supposition. Previous seasons are always discussed and backed with statistical facts. I provided facts from 2019 in this conversation with you alone. With that said, some of the other things you said in this thread now makes a little more sense to me

You're on the draft board, a board specifically made to talk about the future, how players are going to transition from college to pro, and who is going to pick them....and you think that's not entirely based on assumptions? Ok.

Sherman was good but has always been limited. He doesn't cover the top receiver in most cases, he covers whoever the other team wants him to. You can scheme to or away from him depending on what you want to do because he doesn't follow the top guy like most elite CBs would.

And yes, we will be able to bring those players back and add more with the cap room we have. Every team is operating under the same lowered cap and we have a good chunk of room to work with. We also have a stable coach and GM and are a place players will want to play because they know we have a roster that can win a championship. There are teams like the Saints who are 70 million over the cap right now. Lots of players are going to be cut and this is going to be actual good players who can help teams. It's going to hurt the market for every player. We also know the cap is going to go way up after this year and can backload contracts to the 2nd and 3rd years with higher bonuses to get players to sign. The cap isn't going to be the giant hurdle that you think it is.

I have full faith that Lynch will bring back and in the talent the team needs and that the suits will make the numbers work to do it.

How much cap room you think we have ?