Zach Wilson, QB, Denver Broncos

Originally posted by boomer49er:
You could recall that after 2019 Jimmy was named as the 43th best player in the NFL, at any position, and 8th at QB. That's voted on by other NFL players, guys that he plays with and against. He is a high level talent, you just don't like him.

LOL that list is full of s**t and a TON of players say that. Some say they actually don't even know who votes for it. Buckner wasn't on that list for yrs, which is a joke.

No I'm just objective of who he is as a player...go look back to when Jimmy was first traded (or even before that when we were tied to McDaniels) I was all for Jimmy coming to SF. I never hated him and still don't. I didn't even hate the contract because you could move off him after yr 2 o that deal....so here we are.

He's an avg QB. The only great trait he has is a quick release, there isn't much of anything else he does in regards to playing QB that he's above avg. What your problem is you can't admit how good that roster was in 2019. You can't admit how good our coaching staff is. Give them Andy Dalton this yr and they probably go to the playoffs over the Bears.

Why do you think the market for trading Jimmy is next to nothing right now? IF he was such a good QB like you seem to believe, we should have teams knocking down our doors to trade for him....I mean look a his winning % He just "took" a team to the SB. Why can't we move him for 2 1st round picks? He's won more playoffs then Stafford? Like you said he's the 12th highest paid QB and you can move off him after this yr....so tell me why we can't sell him for a bag of peanuts right now?

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by boomer49er:
His pay isn't relevant to that discussion. We're talking about things we'd have to give up to acquire any of these player. For JG that's absolutely nothing because we have him under control already. Besides, his pay is pretty competitive for the position.

We have a roster that will probably be better than the one that we went to the Super Bowl with a year ago. I don't see any reason to try to get cute and take big risks at the QB position. I don't see anybody in the draft that can make us better next year. I don't see anybody in free agency that will make us better next year. I don't see anybody who is actually going to be traded that will make us better next year. There's never been a rookie QB to start in a Super Bowl, I don't thinks that's just by chance.

Even just drafting a QB in the first round, without intention to start him, is going to hurt your team because it'll be a distraction all year and is denies the team of a talented player who could contribute. I imagine Rodgers would of liked to have Tee Higgins or even Justin Jefferson out there in that NFC champ game instead of a backup QB watching him with a clipboard.

One in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Defend your stance. The 2021 roster will be better than the 2019 roster.

Me having to do this makes me question how much you know this team, but sure:

2019 roster went 13-3 with the #2 defense and #2 in rushing in the NFL, 7 minutes away from winning the SB.

In 2019 we had arguably the best defensive line in the league with Bosa, Buckner, AA and Ford. Behind them were former pro bowler Kwon Alexander, Fred Warner and Greenlaw at SAM. The secondary consisted of All Pro Sherman, Moseley and top 3 Nickel in the league in Williams, Ward and Tartt. Ward also played at a top 5 FS level that year.

2021 we no longer have All Pro Buckner and who knows about Ford. We replaced Buckner with Kinlaw, and we have nothing opposite Bosa. Bosa himself is coming off of a torn ACL.

Our linebackers will still have Warner and Greenlaw, but be without Kwon. Kwon, Warner and Greenlaw > Warner, Greenlaw and Shaair

Do I really need to get into our secondary? Zero Corners, high likelihood Sherman and Kwuan isn't coming back. Tartt is also likely gone.

2021 offensive line may or may not have Williams or Richburg. That would leave holes at the 2 most important spots on the line. In 2019 we had Staley and Richburg. Aside from that, the offense does have the chance to be better or the same depending on a lot of things, QB position being the biggest factor, if it is Jimmy and can he stay healthy for a whole season again and if it isn't Jimmy then who was he replaced by. That can be said about pretty much all of our best players on offense (health), Mostert, Kittle, Deebo etc.

Now defend your statement and explain to me how the 2021 roster will be better

Because the core of that team is still here and still young. Guys were are going to lose like Sherman have been in decline for several years. He was clearly a liability against the faster guys in the league.

We are in relatively good cap space compared to a lot of the league and with some moves we will have enough cap room to bring back Williams, Juice, Mosley, K'waun, Hyder, Verrett, Jones, and Thomas if we want him. We'll have to cut Ford and Richburg, but neither are guys we can't replace. Ford hasn't lived up to his billing since we got him. On top of that we can still add a player or three in FA. Alex Mack, a safety and another pass rusher. We're going to have 35 million, maybe more if Garoppolo is restructured, and we back backload contracts for bigger payouts in the 3rd or 4th years after the new TV deal. That's what everyone is going to do anyway. The cap isn't going to hold us back the way people are worried about.

Kinlaw is going to improve. Having Bosa back will improve his production. Yes, Bosa's coming back from an ACL, but by the time the season starts he will have been almost a full year out from the injury, more than enough time to recover.

In short, the front 7 on defense will be just as elite as it was with more experience from the core of that group. The pass rush will be there which will cover up a lot of deficiencies that exist in the secondary, like it did in 2019.

On offense Garoppolo comes back with all of the same playmakers that were there in 2019 outside of Sanders, who is more than replaced by Aiyuk.. We will resign Williams and add a new center. There's also potential to upgrade the guards. Up the middle pressure was a problem at times in 2019, including the super bowl. Trent is an upgrade over Staley at the end of his career.

All this is before the draft which should add at least one or two contributing players to the roster.

You're entire argument is based on the assumption that we won't be able to resign the players we want. I don't believe that to be the case at all. We're going to lose Sherman and we're going to cut Ford and Richburg. I don't see anybody else leaving that we really want to keep. Williams is going to be the priority signing and after him are some of those defensive players we talked about. But the point is we're going to have 35 million to play with before we even talk about restructuring Jimmy's contract to save another 9 or 10 million. We have a thousand ways to structure contracts to make room this year and make up for it in bigger salary years.

And what is your entire argument based on? Literally everything you said is assumption since you know, none of it happened yet and nobody knows what the 2021 roster looks like. Common sense would tell you to at least see what the roster actually is before making a statement that it's better than one that was just in the SB and ranked as high as it was offensively and defensively.

That's the part you want to talk about? I don't believe I said you were wrong to make an assumption but instead made an argument against the specific assumption that you made, that we were going to lose these important parts. Now your doing some kind of logical gymnastics to say I can't make assumptions about the roster but you can.

Literally everything that gets talked about on this board is supposition.

.

The specific assumption that I made in losing important parts WILL become fact, hold me to it in saying that we will lose important players of that 2019 roster. I'll use Sherm since you said he lost a step and was leaving anyways. While in fact true that he certainly did lose a step and did get burned a few times, with regard to your original statement of the 2021 roster will be better than the 2019 roster, Sherm was one of the best CBs in the league that year and locked everyone he went up against more often than not. What player do we have that replaces that in 2021? I'll talk about another thing that is incredibly naive for you to say/think: We will bring back Williams, Verrett, Juice, Moseley, Kwuan, Jones and Solly if we want him AND STILL have enough to bring in a player or 3 Mack, Safety and Edge. I guess I can't say that won't happen but I'm a lot less optimistic about it than you are when the cap took a dive due to COVID and we aren't one of the teams with a lot of room to work.

The bolded is one of the dumbest statements I've seen and is far from the truth. You gotta be new to the board or not know the definition of what you wrote to say LITERALLY everything that gets talked about on the board is supposition. Previous seasons are always discussed and backed with statistical facts. I provided facts from 2019 in this conversation with you alone. With that said, some of the other things you said in this thread now makes a little more sense to me

You're on the draft board, a board specifically made to talk about the future, how players are going to transition from college to pro, and who is going to pick them....and you think that's not entirely based on assumptions? Ok.

Sherman was good but has always been limited. He doesn't cover the top receiver in most cases, he covers whoever the other team wants him to. You can scheme to or away from him depending on what you want to do because he doesn't follow the top guy like most elite CBs would.

And yes, we will be able to bring those players back and add more with the cap room we have. Every team is operating under the same lowered cap and we have a good chunk of room to work with. We also have a stable coach and GM and are a place players will want to play because they know we have a roster that can win a championship. There are teams like the Saints who are 70 million over the cap right now. Lots of players are going to be cut and this is going to be actual good players who can help teams. It's going to hurt the market for every player. We also know the cap is going to go way up after this year and can backload contracts to the 2nd and 3rd years with higher bonuses to get players to sign. The cap isn't going to be the giant hurdle that you think it is.

I have full faith that Lynch will bring back and in the talent the team needs and that the suits will make the numbers work to do it.

You gotta be freaking kidding me, the draft board was specifically made to only talk about projections and what they will do in the pros? All assumptions? And what are these assumptions and projections based on? Not what they did during their college careers? Pick any freaking thread in this draft board and the overwhelming majority of them will not fit in your criteria of what the board was made for and will include statistics/facts/videos of what these prospects ALREADY DID and not what they are projected or assumed to do, and yes what they ALREADY DID in college is also discussed just as much if not more than what they are projected or assumed to do in the pros. Ok.

Sherman is a Hall of Fame CB regardless of limitations. There is no "perfect" player and every player has flaws/limitations that in some point of their career will be exploited. Just because he doesn't follow the top guy around doesn't make him what you are trying to insinuate he is, fact is that for the majority of his time in the NFL, the opposition did choose to scheme or go away from him, guess what, for a CB that is a good thing lol. He still taking away a part of the field. Ok.

You think we will be able to bring back all of those players and I don't, proof will be in the pudding in a few months as that is your favorite words of assumptions and supposition. We got what about 40 free agents and 12 mil in cap to work with, currently speaking and you don't think that is a giant hurdle in an unprecedented never before COVID offseason and I think it will be. Lots of question marks and unknowns for the entire NFL and although I also have lots of confidence in our Coach and GM, I still disagree with all of your assumptions. We shall see

Getting Wilson is a pipe dream

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Alfienator:
Hehe this is funny because everyone is assuming in here.

Case in point - QB that's just as capable/cheaper.

The cheaper part is true but the capable is assuming.

Are we assuming Jimmy is some high level talent? If so there's a debate for that

You could recall that after 2019 Jimmy was named as the 43th best player in the NFL, at any position, and 8th at QB. That's voted on by other NFL players, guys that he plays with and against. He is a high level talent, you just don't like him.

Wonder what Carson Wentz was rated after his best season. Same with Colin Kaepernick, don't forget Cam Newton was an MVP. One season doesn't make a career FQB.

Originally posted by mitpdub:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Alfienator:
Hehe this is funny because everyone is assuming in here.

Case in point - QB that's just as capable/cheaper.

The cheaper part is true but the capable is assuming.

Are we assuming Jimmy is some high level talent? If so there's a debate for that

You could recall that after 2019 Jimmy was named as the 43th best player in the NFL, at any position, and 8th at QB. That's voted on by other NFL players, guys that he plays with and against. He is a high level talent, you just don't like him.

Wonder what Carson Wentz was rated after his best season. Same with Colin Kaepernick, don't forget Cam Newton was an MVP. One season doesn't make a career FQB.

Two injury hit seasons either side of it doesn't make a bad one either

Guys were not getting him.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Guys were not getting him.

Oh

and so it begins

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by boomer49er:
You could recall that after 2019 Jimmy was named as the 43th best player in the NFL, at any position, and 8th at QB. That's voted on by other NFL players, guys that he plays with and against. He is a high level talent, you just don't like him.

LOL that list is full of s**t and a TON of players say that. Some say they actually don't even know who votes for it. Buckner wasn't on that list for yrs, which is a joke.

No I'm just objective of who he is as a player...go look back to when Jimmy was first traded (or even before that when we were tied to McDaniels) I was all for Jimmy coming to SF. I never hated him and still don't. I didn't even hate the contract because you could move off him after yr 2 o that deal....so here we are.

He's an avg QB. The only great trait he has is a quick release, there isn't much of anything else he does in regards to playing QB that he's above avg. What your problem is you can't admit how good that roster was in 2019. You can't admit how good our coaching staff is. Give them Andy Dalton this yr and they probably go to the playoffs over the Bears.

Why do you think the market for trading Jimmy is next to nothing right now? IF he was such a good QB like you seem to believe, we should have teams knocking down our doors to trade for him....I mean look a his winning % He just "took" a team to the SB. Why can't we move him for 2 1st round picks? He's won more playoffs then Stafford? Like you said he's the 12th highest paid QB and you can move off him after this yr....so tell me why we can't sell him for a bag of peanuts right now?

well i guess these threads are the next best threads to continue the regurgitated discussions revolving Jimmy lol

but really, who's "least' unrealistic for us to get? Trevor or Zach?

Originally posted by NYniner85:
and so it begins

As @McShay13 noted on @GetUpESPN, BYU QB Zach Wilson was not a team captain. Players voted for eight captains for the 2020 season — four offense, four defense. Wilson was part of the "leadership council," but not a captain. Red flag? #Jets

— Rich Cimini (@RichCimini) February 12, 2021

The the C on his jersey meant "council"?

Originally posted by NYniner85:
and so it begins

As @McShay13 noted on @GetUpESPN, BYU QB Zach Wilson was not a team captain. Players voted for eight captains for the 2020 season — four offense, four defense. Wilson was part of the "leadership council," but not a captain. Red flag? #Jets

— Rich Cimini (@RichCimini) February 12, 2021

The leadership council? Wtf is this, the United Nations?

Originally posted by NYniner85:
and so it begins

As @McShay13 noted on @GetUpESPN, BYU QB Zach Wilson was not a team captain. Players voted for eight captains for the 2020 season — four offense, four defense. Wilson was part of the "leadership council," but not a captain. Red flag? #Jets

— Rich Cimini (@RichCimini) February 12, 2021

Now I really need an accounting of just how many teammates showed up for his birthday party.